Attitude of Some Police re: Open Carry

[FloridaBlue]

I lost interest somewhere around the eight minute point. What finally happened? Was he released after the OC vs CC within city limits question was sorted out? Presumably the on-call DA rep was consulted since these cowboys clearly slept through the applicable training sessions.

Felix, from what I am aware of he was released 45 minutes later and all his possessions were returned. The cops apparently made several phone calls trying to find the law if any that he had broken but was unable to do so and sent him on his way. As for the recording he had started it before he left his house but removed the 2 minutes of dead time for video purposes. It appears he is seeking legal counsel at this time.

 

[Felix]

Thanks for the post-arrest recap, FloridaBlue.

 

[aosailor]

AO, I think the fellow in question pushed the envelope about as far as he could and showed remarkable resolve in the process given the circumstances. He doesn't need anyone to tell him how to suck eggs. The next step was going to be a police baton up side the head. But good on ya for fighting to the end through that keyboard.

I was replying to ccwaz about their comment to just give over ID if a cop asks. Is that OK with you? I thought that is what this forum was for? to discuss our views and opinions about related topics... Am I wrong? If you do not agree with my view that is fine, you can say so but there is no need to mock me for my comments.

 

[Felix]

I was replying to ccwaz ...

Who is ccwaz anyway? I scrolled back three pages on my laptop and didn't see anyone by that name. Please include a relevant quote the next time so it's obvious who you're talking about unless you're the next poster. Now that I know who you were responding to, your comment makes more sense. Sorry for believing you were telling that ballsy YouTuber how to suck eggs when he went a lot further than I know I would have given the equivalent circumstances. I see a lot of keyboard bravado but as the popular saying goes on another forum, "It never happened if there's not pictures (or video/audio)." In this guy's case, there was audio and he didn't give an inch until it was obvious the consequences would have been some physical harm, even though he was "right" by the letter of the law. But being dead right/seriously injured at the hands of an out-of-control cop doesn't cut it...there's a time to capitulate and continue the resistance in a more civilized setting...in a court of law. And that guy took it right to the brink...and was ultimately released according to FloridaBlue.

 

[hornett22]

I couldn't agree more.

This is what I was talking about. Police need to start policing their own if they want people to start trusting them again.

If there are so many great cops and so few bad cops,it shouldn't be too much trouble for the great ones to expose and help get rid of the bad ones.

 

[aosailor]

Who is ccwaz anyway? I scrolled back three pages on my laptop and didn't see anyone by that name. Please include a relevant quote the next time so it's obvious who you're talking about unless you're the next poster. Now that I know who you were responding to, your comment makes more sense. Sorry for believing you were telling that ballsy YouTuber how to suck eggs when he went a lot further than I know I would have given the equivalent circumstances. I see a lot of keyboard bravado but as the popular saying goes on another forum, "It never happened if there's not pictures (or video/audio)." In this guy's case, there was audio and he didn't give an inch until it was obvious the consequences would have been some physical harm, even though he was "right" by the letter of the law. But being dead right/seriously injured at the hands of an out-of-control cop doesn't cut it...there's a time to capitulate and continue the resistance in a more civilized setting...in a court of law. And that guy took it right to the brink...and was ultimately released according to FloridaBlue.

"Originally Posted by ccwaz
assume for just one minute that somebody who is about your same height and weight just robbed a store half a block away. The cop heard about it on his radio. You didn't. He sees you with a gun on your hip. He asks for your id.

Treat the cop with respect. Assume he is doing his job, which includes putting his life on the line for you and a lot of ungrateful people who are afraid of him because he carries a gun - which is the normal attitude of sheep toward the sheepdog. If you have not broken any laws, you have nothing to fear. Show your id. While you're at it, thank the cop for his service.

If a real bad guy came in right then and started shooting up the starbucks, guess who would be the first one to step in front of a bullet for you. Cut the cop some slack."


this was the post I was replying to. I could have sworn I put it in my reply, guess I hit the wrong button or something.

 

[Ender0183]

Open carry

Well i dont think that one officers judgement applies to all peace officers were im from many view it as a good idea an old man said an ounce of derrent is worth a pound of lead but if need be any thing worth shooting at is worth shooting twice

 

[bro.bryant]

i'm here in columbus,ga. if any one can let me know if any oc groups are in columbus?

 

[Unfettered Might]

i'm here in columbus,ga. if any one can let me know if any oc groups are in columbus?

Check here.

Link Removed

 

[Kasper]

You mean like this: Ex-Cop Nailed for Stealing Power Tools | NBC Miami Ex-cop arrested by current cops.:biggrin:

Jackson was fired form the Homestead force about a year ago because of "conduct unbecoming an officer."

No not like this since he was no longer a cop when they arrested him he was an Ex-cop. I want police officers to start arresting their own instead of just standing by letting them assault and violate citizens civil rights while turning a blind eye.

 

[Deanimator]

No not like this since he was no longer a cop when they arrested him he was an Ex-cop. I want police officers to start arresting their own instead of just standing by letting them assault and violate citizens civil rights while turning a blind eye.

That's really not terribly likely.

In Chicago this past week, a couple of Chicago cops were arrested for sexually assaulting an intoxicated woman. As usual there was immediately a chorus of Chicago cops on cue to blame the victim... so many so in fact that the owner of a famous Chicago cop blog started censoring the defenses of the cops since they kind of put the lie to what he says about the LACK of support for bad cops. This was all the MORE ironic, given that he'd JUST posted a story about a lawsuit by a young man who'd been kidnapped and threatened by the now disbanded "SOS" unit of the Chicago PD. The blog owner called it "opportunistic", as though terrorizing a child SHOULDN'T be actionable in civil court if an LEO does it.

There is still overwhelming support among Chicago police for torturer Jon Burge, who was recently convicted of perjury regarding the Chicago PD's organized torture operation during the '70s and '80s.

There is indeed an "us vs. them" attitude, and it originates, primarily on one side.

 

[snatale42]

I understand the charges were eventually dropped, but as a former LEO myself, I don't see the reason for the arrest to begin with. Does a citizen legally carrying his sidearm in accordance with state law actually equate with a wild-eyed maniac shooting up a peaceful business? I think the deputy owes the gentleman an abject, sincere apology.

It's good to see a former cop, that hasn't been programmed into stupidity by years of service. The world needs more of "you" on the street, and less of all the other guys.

 

[Jack_from_AL]

Open Carry in Alabama

I open carry almost all of the time. I live in Alabama that has a lengthy hot season and I find it difficult to hide my H&K USP Compact under my T-shirt and shorts. Let me add, I always carry, it is not a part time thing. I have walked by uniformed police officers (the last time in the Wal*Mart parking lot) and the average comment is usually something like nice pistol, what caliber is it, or How's it going (as they make eye contact with my weapon).

My usual answer is to answer the question appropriately. In the Wal*Mart parking lot I simply said, " If it gets any better someone will try and make it illegal." He laughed and I moved on into the store. The answer to the question about Open Carry, is to always be friendly and if the officer asks to see your ID, your answer should be some version of, No Problem, can I take out my wallet?"

I taught "NoN-Violent Crisis Intervention" to the Jefferson County (Alabama) Sheriff's Department for about 2 years and enjoyed every minute of it. We are losing PO's almost every day and it is only natural for the PO to become nervous when he sees an armed citizen. Be aware that he is only doing his job which includes going home at night to kiss his wife and kids.

So far this year I have been asked twice about my Open Carry, and it both cases I enjoyed the encounter. I could go on, but I don't want to be boring and long winded.

 

[NavyLCDR]

We are losing PO's almost every day and it is only natural for the PO to become nervous when he sees an armed citizen. Be aware that he is only doing his job which includes going home at night to kiss his wife and kids.

I have exactly the same goals, and I have no nervousness at all when I see an armed citizen.

It's a bad place we are in in our country when we feel like it is acceptable and/or warranted for a police officer to stop and ID a person because they are engaging in legal behavior which is protected by the US Constitution (<- I am speaking of carrying a gun). What next? DNA checks at McDonald's to make sure the kids with you are actually yours and you aren't a kidnapper?

More sanitation workers die every year than police officers, BTW.

 

[Rich M]

The LEO did not know if he was a good guy or a criminal. Asking for ID is not a big deal. When it comes to guns... I'll show my ID and retain my 2A rights with out the hastle.

I do not think arguing with LE or causing the issue to escelate is going to do anything benificial for the rights of law abiding, 2A supporting, citizens.

Show him your ID and smile.

 

[Beau]

The LEO did not know if he was a good guy or a criminal. Asking for ID is not a big deal. When it comes to guns... I'll show my ID and retain my 2A rights with out the hastle.

I do not think arguing with LE or causing the issue to escelate is going to do anything benificial for the rights of law abiding, 2A supporting, citizens.

Show him your ID and smile.

It never ends....
How does a government issued piece of plastic prover whether a person is good or a criminal??
Showing ID is not a 2A issue, it is a 4A issue. Yes being forced to provide government plastic while engaging in completely lawful activity is an unlawful search.

People like you who think we should all just go along to get along is how we got to where we are as a country. I'm not just referring to the 2A either.
You go ahead and show them your ID and smile.
I'll politely refuse and smile.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The LEO did not know if he was a good guy or a criminal.

How about if we tell the truth here. The police had NO REASONABLE or ARTICULABLE SUSPICION (RAS) to indicate that he was committing, about to commit, or had committed a crime.

 

[S&W645]

No not like this since he was no longer a cop when they arrested him he was an Ex-cop. I want police officers to start arresting their own instead of just standing by letting them assault and violate citizens civil rights while turning a blind eye.

There are some current ones that were busted too but as they haven't been thru the courts yet, can't say much on them. Several of the ones I know were happy this one and the others were busted. Because it made them look bad too. FDLE does investigate problems.

 

[Rich M]

It never ends....
How does a government issued piece of plastic prover whether a person is good or a criminal??
Showing ID is not a 2A issue, it is a 4A issue. Yes being forced to provide government plastic while engaging in completely lawful activity is an unlawful search.

People like you who think we should all just go along to get along is how we got to where we are as a country. I'm not just referring to the 2A either.
You go ahead and show them your ID and smile.
I'll politely refuse and smile.

Your right, if he wasnt doing anything wrong, they should not have asked in the first place.

Another thing to consider is public opinion, you dont want to turn the general public against CC or OC and have the state tighten restrictions up even more.

In the middle of a restraunt...? Im not going to cause a scene and make the everyone in the place thinkin the wrong things. You KNOW the LEO is NOT going to just say "OK" and walk off when you say No. I would much rather they see me working with LE and being cooperative. That way they might actually feel comfortable sitting at the table next to me with their kids.

Any one of the thoes other people that witness the event may be a business owner. I would hate it to be my actions that encourages them to put no gun stickers on their front doors. Seeing guns in public is not the norm. Untill it is agian, we need to be seting the right examples to make it a comfortable thing for the masses to deal with or it wont happen.

 

[snatale42]

Your right, if he wasnt doing anything wrong, they should not have asked in the first place.

Another thing to consider is public opinion, you dont want to turn the general public against CC or OC and have the state tighten restrictions up even more.

In the middle of a restraunt...? Im not going to cause a scene and make the everyone in the place thinkin the wrong things. You KNOW the LEO is NOT going to just say "OK" and walk off when you say No. I would much rather they see me working with LE and being cooperative. That way they might actually feel comfortable sitting at the table next to me with their kids.

Any one of the thoes other people that witness the event may be a business owner. I would hate it to be my actions that encourages them to put no gun stickers on their front doors. Seeing guns in public is not the norm. Untill it is agian, we need to be seting the right examples to make it a comfortable thing for the masses to deal with or it wont happen.

Unfortunately, he's right . It a politics thing until we get to a point and hopefully we do were our "rights" actually become rights we need to play the game. I'm NOT for police IDing everybody they see carrying and one on one I'd defiantly question the officer as to I'm being harnessed and such. BUT in a situation like the restaurant or in a public place with an audience you need to just say sure no problem give him you CHP and let him go away. If the cop doesn't just go away after that, thats another story. Doesn't matter if it's BS what matters is that the people around see that nothings going to happen to you and that you CAN walk around with a gun on your hip, and yes it's legal and your not getting arrested for it. Arguing 2a rights will PROVE that were a problem to society and like it or not it will create more anti's. Those situations are our best opportunity to educate the public that were regular people just like them and that there safer around us. We shouldn't blow it by being viewed as "The people who carry guns and argue with police". Most people already think that, lets prove them wrong.