Armed Citizen Screwed The Pooch?


J

John Taylor

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Here's one to stir up the community;

This occurred in the densely populated, high traffic, upper middle class to wealthy, west end of Little Rock. The gunman allegedly fired a few random rounds as he was escaping the scene where he had just robbed a bank customer of his deposit, shooting him in the leg. An armed citizen took it upon himself to fire at the fleeing robber, missing and striking a passing vehicle. A CWC instructor defended his actions. The crime rate in Little Rock is soaring and there is a lot of "shoot them" talk being spattered about. While I remain armed until I hit the sheets, I can not support this mans actions, this was not his fight and he had no way to know for sure he was even shooting at the bad guy. No charges have been filed yet, I feel his permit should be pulled, as he is a danger to the general public. And This particular instructor needs to be reviewed. What do you think?
 

I think the fleeing felon was no longer a threat. Unless he turned and pointed his gun at the armed citizen, it was wrong of the citizen to shoot.
 
From the story above it seems to me the good guy probably engaged the suspect because he believed he was a threat to the public for shooting his weapon as he fled the scene. If the bad guy would of hit people as he fired his weapon when he fled and the good guy would of happened to have stopped him from hurting more people you would be singing a different tune. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what is going to happen when you are faced with a situation such as this. Unfortunately the good guy needs more training in hitting a running target. Heck if the New York police officers hit innocent bystanders when shooting a nearly at rest suspect and get away with it. Why wouldn't this guy get away with hitting a car!
 
This used to be called "Monday morning quarterbacking," when you try to decide if what happened should have happened or not. No matter what is decided, nothing will un-happen. And all we'll get is opinions. And opinions are like a$$holes - everybody's got one. For what it's worth, my opinion is that the shooter was trying to help someone, and, in the heat of the moment, mis-aimed. The situation apparently was not over, since the robber was just in the process of leaving the scene. One innocent person had been shot; the good-guy shooter was trying to protect everyone else at the scene. In other words, my opinion is that the good-guy shooter was not in the wrong.
 
There's too little info provided to make a determination as to whether he is justified. Only thing that is certain is that he discharged his weapon, he is responsible for the bullet from chamber to where ever it ends up. We don't know any of the other possibilities of this instance for instance; if the armed citizen attempted to help the wounded man, and the BG fired at him as he was fleeing then could he be perceived as a threat? On the other hand if he was playing "Dirty Harry" Screaming "Make my Day Punk" while running through the parking lot popping off rounds gangsta style. Then he is not justified. There about 1,000,000 ways this situation could have played out and without knowing the TRUTH, none of us can or should judge him for his actions. I say let the state decide and be thankful the only injury was a wound to the leg that hopefully will heal.
 
I can't speak for Little Rock, but the law that I'm familiar with, states that if you witness a felony crime, and have reasonable belief that the criminal is a danger to the general public if allowed to leave, you ARE justified in using deadly force. As for the proper skill necessary to accomplish the task.... practice practice practice.
 
We are responsible for every round we fire from primer ignition to point of impact.
1. the fleeing felon fired several shots and actually wounded someone...this is lethal intent if there ever was any.
2. the armed citizen is not a cop and is not the crackshot he thought he was...he missed and hit a passing car.
3. if I were in that car I might be highly inclined to an act of unnecessary violence after being shot at and it may just require a trip to the emergency room to retrieve his firearm from where I helped him conceal it!
 
I think you are absolutely right. There was no need for deadly force to be used in this case, assuming he was fleeing the scene, away from him. He recklessly endangered others. To me a CCW is to protect me and others from the threat of immediate grave bodily injury. I'm not a shepherd, I'm not a hero. At the end of the day all I want to do is go home safe and alive.
 
John Taylor said:
Leaving Facebook... | Facebook

Here's one to stir up the community;

This occurred in the densely populated, high traffic, upper middle class to wealthy, west end of Little Rock. The gunman allegedly fired a few random rounds as he was escaping the scene where he had just robbed a bank customer of his deposit, shooting him in the leg. An armed citizen took it upon himself to fire at the fleeing robber, missing and striking a passing vehicle. A CWC instructor defended his actions. The crime rate in Little Rock is soaring and there is a lot of "shoot them" talk being spattered about. While I remain armed until I hit the sheets, I can not support this mans actions, this was not his fight and he had no way to know for sure he was even shooting at the bad guy. No charges have been filed yet, I feel his permit should be pulled, as he is a danger to the general public. And This particular instructor needs to be reviewed. What do you think?
Click to expand...

DEAR JOHN (Boy that's a cliche')
The armed citizen saw a fleeing Felon and engaged. Most States would allow this interaction by the citizenry. Personally I would not have according to your OP but I might if there were other mitigating circumstances surrounding this incident.

As for "This occurred in the densely populated, high traffic, upper middle class to wealthy, west end of Little Rock" I didn't know that actually existed anywhere in AK. Almost relo'd to Little Rock but due to the high crime rate we decided against it.
 
TWright said:
I can't speak for Little Rock, but the law that I'm familiar with, states that if you witness a felony crime, and have reasonable belief that the criminal is a danger to the general public if allowed to leave, you ARE justified in using deadly force. As for the proper skill necessary to accomplish the task.... practice practice practice.
Click to expand...


While I think in most states a felony in progress gives you the green light, there needs to be some smart judgement made. While I wouldn't hesitate to drop somebody pointing a gun at innocent people threatening their lives during a robbery, somebody fleeing is another story. Whether legal or not (In my opinion) he crossed from self defense, to playing police. It's extremely rare for the POLICE to shoot at fleeing cars....there's a reason for that.
 
not enough info. did the shooter SEE this stuff, and NOT lose sight of the offender between the seeing and his firing? that is necessary, or the wrong person can be engaged, quite easily. Nobody present is going to pay your legal and medical bills if it turns out badly, guys. you'd be a fool to get into something that's none of your affair.
 
This is why I come to this forum, you guys speak the truth, and you gave me a much needed reality check. I appreciate it.

I wasn't there, and was being reactionary and judgmental. There are way to many possibilities, and had he stopped this BG, I would have certainly sung a different tune. When I hear of a passing car getting hit, and all the anti's screaming "SEE? SEE? guns just make it worse", my defenses go up. This is where I can let this out and be set straight. He was doing what he thought was right , most likely, and will seek more training or re-think his decision to carry.
I have lived here my whole life, and the crime is like I've never seen. I've only recently started locking my doors, and carrying in the house, as a few seconds is not enough time to get to a weapon.
The term, densely populated is relative, the part of Little Rock I speak of was forrest land and cattle ranches less than 20 years ago. I could drive for 10 minutes, and shoot my gun, pulled off to the side of the highway and just 25 yards into the woods.
"John Boy" beats the heck out of a lot of other names i've been tagged with, "Outhouse" was one that thankfully did not stick.
Thanks for setting me straight guys.
Stay safe, and keep up the good fight.
 
I find this post very interesting. A lot of people on here keep saying " what should have happened" and "what the shooter should have done". Calm discussion and being in that moment are two different things. If you would have asked me how I would handle a robber 2 years ago and asked that same question right after I used a 12g to stop a guy from kicking in my front door I'm sure the answers would be different. Based on the info given its a toss up in my opinion. I'm sure he felt in danger and tried to stop a bad guy. Bad aim doesn't necessarily mean bad idea.
 
This is why I come to this forum, you guys speak the truth, and you gave me a much needed reality check. I appreciate it.

I wasn't there, and was being reactionary and judgmental. There are way to many possibilities, and had he stopped this BG, I would have certainly sung a different tune. When I hear of a passing car getting hit, and all the anti's screaming "SEE? SEE? guns just make it worse", my defenses go up. This is where I can let this out and be set straight. He was doing what he thought was right , most likely, and will seek more training or re-think his decision to carry.
I have lived here my whole life, and the crime is like I've never seen. I've only recently started locking my doors, and carrying in the house, as a few seconds is not enough time to get to a weapon.
The term, densely populated is relative, the part of Little Rock I speak of was forrest land and cattle ranches less than 20 years ago. I could drive for 10 minutes, and shoot my gun, pulled off to the side of the highway and just 25 yards into the woods.
"John Boy" beats the heck out of a lot of other names i've been tagged with, "Outhouse" was one that thankfully did not stick.
Thanks for setting me straight guys.
Stay safe, and keep up the good fight.
 
Vague details here. For all we know, the fleeing felon was firing his weapon in the direction of the Armed Citizen, he obviously felt his life and/or his families life was in danger. I disagree with his permit being pulled or any charges being filed. Its almost the same as if some man broke into your home and you happened to fire a weapon at him as he was backing out of your door and maybe your round missed and you hit a passing vehicle. I feel theyre both in the same category.
 
Edsworld said:
Every man for himself. No wonder or country is screwed up. Divided we fall. We are falling.
Click to expand...

Ed, I never said never said every man for himself, but I personally am never going to use deadly force to stop a thief. I don't want to live with the burden of killing a human being without knowing that it was 100% necessary. To say nothing of the the legal hassles of shooting someone. We don't know all of the facts, but assuming the thief was fleeing away from him, IMHO he would have been better off if he focused on being a witness and rendering aid to the shot man.
 
Sounds like a judgment call and I wasn't there. Glad no one was hurt. The bad guy might have needed the money for his sick or hungry family. This doesn't justify his actions but just a thought.
 
10x more likely he wanted some dope, or booze, or was behind on his rent because of booze, tobacco, or dope. I'd wager a large amount of money that the fleeing felon never fired at this guy, he just decided to play "Batman" and screwed it all up.
 
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