Arguing with a liberal about Open and Concealed Carry


Rabbitcreekok said:
The old definition of conservative has not changed, which is why I call myself a conservative. The Republican party has changed, moved to the left while the Democrats have moved way, far left. Of course I usually vote Republican because they are the closest to my ideals.
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See, this is where I get into trouble. For a few examples... I don't think the government should be involved in my life any more than absolutely necessary. IMHO taking this to it's logical conclusion... the government should therefore not be able to say one way or the other regarding the legality of abortion. I consider the intrusion of the government into prohibiting it, a very very VERY LIBERAL position. Same with gay marriage, why do CONSERVATIVES want the government involved in THAT personal decision yet cry foul when a new national park is established or a prohibition on dumping industrial wastes into a river is enacted?

I find it the height of hypocrisy that the supposed modern conservative can claim to be all for more individual freedom, yet demand that those above freedoms be limited because it conflicts with their INDIVIDUAL morals.

I am straight, and do not care for abortion... yet to be true to the old conservative definition that I hold dear, I MUST agree that the government should have ZERO say in either of those above issues. Doing so however makes me not fit with the current crop of right-wing over zealous religious nuts who control the current mainstream conservative parties, yet at the same time I despise the big-government policies of the liberals.

So what am I? I am a conservative through and through, but I am not a Republican modern-conservative.
 

Refer your liberal to gunfacts.org. It is a comprehensive site that references sources for all of its points. I refuse to argue with liberals in general and specifically on gun topics. They are full of "knowlege" that simply isn't true and they never bother to educate themselves.
 
dpickl00 said:
Absolutely! I actually said this exact same thing to him. I told him, " if I shared your point of view, I would be more afraid of cc rather than oc"...he got pretty quiet after that. Then he tried to come up with an even more scary scenario about how he lived in Chicago and was mugged at gun point by someone (i thought ironic). He stated that if it were me in that situation, I would have had my gun taken away from me and would have been shot...that's a hard argument to counter...of course it's always possible, but unlikely if you are aware of your surroundings. I ride motorcycles a lot, so I personally have a ridiculous amount of situational awareness, I feel like carrying would require the same amount of effort, as I'm sure everyone else on this forum will agree too.
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I doubt that happened. I would have told him "WOW, I would love to see the police report on that!"
 
Would have had your gun taken away from you? Well, If it's that easy, then I would just take it back. :laugh:
 
The mindset of an Anti-Gunner, has been developed by information fed to them since their youth. The Public Schools are full of Liberals, that indoctrinate the Kids in their Anti-Gun beliefs. I delt with these kind of people, as a Kid from Central Illinois. The Chicago Region is like a breeding ground for Anti-Gunners. You really cannot get them to understand their error, it is hardwired into their psych. It has been called Self Deception or Chicagoism! I would not waste another day with this guy, move on and be happier with like minded people. Life is too short to spend with people that bring no benefit to your life.
 
Dan, I agree with all of that so much. The Public Schools everywhere are basically the same way. Hammering the Anti-Gun hatred into the kids. Chicago, it would seem, is the "Capitol" for this though. There's almost no hope for them.
 
BC1 said:
Advice? Don't argue with anti-gun liberals. You can't win.
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Or leave the arguing with anti-gun liberals to the pro-gun liberals. They tend to listen to us better. (They don't always RETAIN what was said; being anti-gun is generally about as hard to convince as being anti-abortion.)
 
The mindset of an Anti-abortioner, has been developed by information fed to them since their youth. The churches are full of conservatives, that indoctrinate the Kids in their Anti-abortion beliefs. I delt with these kind of people, as a Kid from Georgia. The Southern Region is like a breeding ground for Anti-abortioners. You really cannot get them to understand their error, it is hardwired into their psych. It has been called Self Deception or Southernism! I would not waste another day with this guy, move on and be happier with like minded people. Life is too short to spend with people that bring no benefit to your life.
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Amazing how similar the argument can be changing just the subject.......
 
Pir8fan said:
Refer your liberal to gunfacts.org. It is a comprehensive site that references sources for all of its points. I refuse to argue with liberals in general and specifically on gun topics. They are full of "knowlege" that simply isn't true and they never bother to educate themselves.
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Refer them to:
The Six Things Americans Should Know About the Second Amendment, by Richard W. Stevens
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Gun rights *ARE* a liberal belief. We just need to remind some of the closed-minded ones of it.
 
States Allowing Open Carry with License per State Preemption Laws: The following states allow licensed open carry of firearms with most local laws preempted by state law: North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Utah, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Hawaii, and Massachusetts.

States Allowing Open Carry without License without State Preemption: The following states allow open carry of a firearm without a specific open carry license, but may be subject to municipal laws governing open carry, including: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Maine, New Hampshire, and Delaware.

States Allowing Open Carry without License per State Preemption Laws: The following states allow open carry of firearms, without a specific license to do so, as well as possess state laws preempting any local statutes governing open carry including: Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, and Vermont.
 
Botye14 said:
States Allowing Open Carry with License per State Preemption Laws: The following states allow licensed open carry of firearms with most local laws preempted by state law: North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Utah, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia, Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Hawaii, and Massachusetts.

States Allowing Open Carry without License without State Preemption: The following states allow open carry of a firearm without a specific open carry license, but may be subject to municipal laws governing open carry, including: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Maine, New Hampshire, and Delaware.

States Allowing Open Carry without License per State Preemption Laws: The following states allow open carry of firearms, without a specific license to do so, as well as possess state laws preempting any local statutes governing open carry including: Alaska, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, and Vermont.
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Please don't post things that you don't know. SOMEONE may actually believe what you say even though it is not correct. Washington allows unlicensed carry AND has a state Pre-Emption law. Cite WA RCW 9.41.290 reads:

RCW 9.41.290
State preemption.


The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.

May want to double check your source of that list you published.

-Thor
 
Whether it's guns, politics, religion, or abortion your probably never going to get a gun-hater to change their mind....until something bad happens to them...then they'll suddenly think it's fine to carry a gun. Remain calm and use statistics to win any gun "debates".
 
CharonPDX said:
Amazing how similar the argument can be changing just the subject.......
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Excellent point! Wow. Just one question though. That would be concerning the outcome of the actions taken by a pro-gunner compared to the pro-abortionist.
To be a pro-gunner you don't have to advocate shooting innocents. To be a pro-abortionist you would have to advocate > > What? Go ahead, say it. Don't be afraid to defend your position of just changing the subject. If you don't respond maybe others here will be truthful and tell what you would have to advocate.
 
I am a liberal, ex-cop, former MP, Regular Army goll-danged patriot with a big fat CCW in my wallet and a loaded gun in my pocket.

I don't rent space in my head to people who think the Bill of Rights is negotiable, liberal and conservative morons alike. When you make the Constitution of the United States an "us vs. them" topic then you are selling something.
 
XenaWarriorCat said:
I am a liberal, ex-cop, former MP, regular army goll-danged patriot with a big fat CCW in my wallet and a loaded gun in my pocket.

I don't rent space in my head to people who think the Bill of Right is negotiable, liberal and conservative morons alike. When you make the Constitution of the United States an "us vs. them" topic you are selling something.
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^^^^^^This, I like!^^^^^^^
 
The platitude, "A liberal is a conservative who has yet to be mugged" seems to apply to whom the OP refers.

No point in arguing the merits of OC and CC (other than elevating the OP's blood pressure and who needs that?) until afterwards. :sarcastic:
 
XenaWarriorCat said:
I am a liberal, ex-cop, former MP, Regular Army goll-danged patriot with a big fat CCW in my wallet and a loaded gun in my pocket.

I don't rent space in my head to people who think the Bill of Rights is negotiable, liberal and conservative morons alike. When you make the Constitution of the United States an "us vs. them" topic then you are selling something.
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I will bite on this one.......

What liberal politicians do you endorse as being pro 2A?

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