Anyone know of someone caught carrying outside their "sportsman" restriction?

mmurtha said:

Some counties (at least here in Suffolk) prohibit you from making any stops whatsoever when travelling from your house to the range if you have a sportsman endorsement. The reason they prohibited stops is because people were doing exactly what you desribed. I would imagine if you live in a county that doesn't prohibit stops and enough people give the "oh I was just on my way to the range" at 2am, when you clearly weren't, that your county will soon prohibit stops as well.

In addition, although carrying outside the scope of your endorsement is not a crime per se, whether or not you will be charged with a crime is a different story. Depending on the circumstances, you could be arrested and charged with a crime akin to menacing in the 2nd degree. It all depends on how visible your firearm is, and what the circumstances were that alerted the athorities to the fact that you were carrying.

Click to expand...

Is this the law that catches all the criminals?

strangequark87 said:

Hi. Just as a warning, I am not a lawyer, and cannot give lawful advice

I've done about 2 years of research regarding the entire permitting process. The police department or court of issuance (whether you are located up- or down- state) can place arbitrary administrative restrictions upon licensees in the state. Such is a function of the licensing officer. But this action is akin to the licensing officer saying on the license, "you like pink elephants." It has no bearing on law (PEN 400.00). When applying, all people who apply for a "restricted" sportsman class actually are applying for a Class F license which states in part, "(f) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof." The county (or county police) cannot preempt the state by making the licenses more restrictive than the State allows (see Matter of Chwick v Mulvey (2010 NY Slip Op 09911)). These "restrictions" are meaningless, since the licensing officer cannot arbitrate law (because he is an unelected official in the executive branch) - separation of powers.

In short, once a Class F license is issued, go about your business as the law (PEN 400.00(f)) prescribes. I do.

Click to expand...

I like what you said...but..in Orange County an elected judge signs off on your permit and any amendment additions. That being said, Penal 400 only says Carry Concealed or Premise...that's it...two types. The only legal restriction is no NYC carry with a NYS...and I'm not sure if it's 'against the law' or in defiance of a judges order...anyone care to comment?

riffmaker said:

Here is my post. Show me where it says I will carry all the time. Prove to me when and where I carry is outside my restrictions. If not, we can end this thread. Which should have been done about 50 posts ago.

I never said that I would carry full time. Here is when I carry. Monday through Friday I work( remember I have an exception from the judge for work), so I carry all day during the week. On Saturday and Sunday I carry when Im fishing, hiking, camping or at the range. So basically I carry everyday. The times I cant carry are evenings when I am not doing anything recreational. So when I get home after work Monday - Friday, I dont carry if I leave the house to shop or have dinner or to visit a friend. Same goes for Saturday and Sunday. If I leave the house after my recreational activities, I dont carry. If I join a 24/7 range, I would carry to and from the range. Since I do work sometimes late at night, I may go to the range at 10pm. As I said before, my restrictions are very liberal so I can carry for most of the day everyday, but I will not jepordize my permit and carry outside my restrictions.

Click to expand...

Years ago I had a retail business in NYC...I had a Carry Concealed NYS, no restrictions...I called 1 PP to speak to a licensing officer....they are lost..no clue...spoke to be about a Partial carry because I didn't make $8000 in daily deposits to qualify for Full carry...when I said that I took issue with NYC determining what my life was worth they said I should apply for a Premise permit....clue less....Part time carry broke it down to Mon Wed or Fri carry or Tues Thurs or Sat...AM or PM....ridiculous or what? Either one would require that whichever firearm I wished to have with me in NYC be taken off my NYS and put on their permit...only. Yahoos...bunch of yahoos...at least the ones I spoke too anyway.

Adminstrative restrictions are just that. So long as you do not expose your gun, you are complying with the penal code and have not committed a crime. Court precedent supports this. The worst that can happen to you is that the issuing agent, (judge, police chief, etc) may choose to pull your permit, but that's something he can do at any time on a whim. This applies to NY state -- NOT NEW YORK CITY.

I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV or in the movies.

JimPage said:

This discussion borders on the ridiculous. Let me explain a couple of things.
1. NY penal code only allows concealed carry. There is no provision for open carry. The law is not enforced while you are hunting, but tecnically you can't open carry.
2. While some judges put restrictions on your license with the intent that you not carry during some activities, NY Supreme court precedent has been set that "a license to carry is a licence to carry" no matter what restrictions the county judge has put on the license. So while the judge may get mad if you are caught violating the restriction and pull your license (he can at any time no matter what you do), you cannot be prosecuted for carrying illegally if you have a license and are carrying concealed.
3. NY City (5 boroughs) is a totally different animal. NY state licenses are not valid there. NYC is like a different state.

Click to expand...

Thank you sir ... just what I was going to write...

OMG...took way to long to silence that guy...as far as being armed and ready for an intelligent conversation that guy was clearly un armed....Ignorance can be fixed through education...but stupid is stupid forever. The rest of you...keep the faith...and your patience...

Agreed. And it's about the millionth time this information has been posted.

Jeffx,

To be the only one to actually answer your question, "No, I have NEVER heard of someone losing their license just for carrying outside of their restrictions." At least in Suffolk County, licenses are lost because the licensee committed a crime, was subjected to a restraining order, confined to a mental facility, or otherwise became ineligble to have firearm. I would speculate that the main reason why is that anyone in a position of authority to alert the licensing officer of the "violation" would have no reason to know the person was carrying in the first place. If they do, it's because of some other charge, crime, etc. and THAT becomes the reason for suspension or revocation.

Moreover, "hunter won" has written two things which I don't believe are correct:

1) <<Most every county in New York places restrictions on your permit.>>

this is not true. Most counties upstate issue with NO RESTRICTIONS easily or make you jump through a few hoops.

2) <<Since there has been cases in Suffolk and other counties throughout the state of subjects carrying a licensed handgun with a Sportman permit/restricted permit.You may be arrested under section 265 of the NYPL if caught with a handgun that isn't properly licensed.>>

I would be interested in seeing these cases because I have never heard of them. Arresting someone with a violation of Sec 265 of the Penal Law would be in clear violation of the penal law and the Parker decision, which is the case that said even if someone had a premises license (which state law says is good only in your house or business), you can't be charged with a Sec 265 Class C felony.