Anyone know of someone caught carrying outside their "sportsman" restriction?

[riffmaker]

riffmaker states he can carry all the time with a restricted ccw. i ask if he was rite or wrong . i need a yes or no answer.

Here is my post. Show me where it says I will carry all the time. Prove to me when and where I carry is outside my restrictions. If not, we can end this thread. Which should have been done about 50 posts ago.

I never said that I would carry full time. Here is when I carry. Monday through Friday I work( remember I have an exception from the judge for work), so I carry all day during the week. On Saturday and Sunday I carry when Im fishing, hiking, camping or at the range. So basically I carry everyday. The times I cant carry are evenings when I am not doing anything recreational. So when I get home after work Monday - Friday, I dont carry if I leave the house to shop or have dinner or to visit a friend. Same goes for Saturday and Sunday. If I leave the house after my recreational activities, I dont carry. If I join a 24/7 range, I would carry to and from the range. Since I do work sometimes late at night, I may go to the range at 10pm. As I said before, my restrictions are very liberal so I can carry for most of the day everyday, but I will not jepordize my permit and carry outside my restrictions.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

you said you carry 99% of the time.what changed now.do you fish and hike eveyday.

 

[riffmaker]

you said you carry 99% of the time.what changed now.do you fish and hike eveyday.

No. The other 1% Im sleeping. But my pistol is concealed in my boxers. Please tell me its illegal to carry concealed in my boxers because my permit is restricted. I know, I have to have the pistol in my right pocket and the ammo separate in my left pocket.

 

[twogunwilly]

It is not illegal to carry outside of restrictions but you do so at the risk of having it revoked. Some counties will only give unrestricted to LEOs.. Are they more deserving of protection then anybody else? It comes down to concealed means concealed and its nobody's business who has a gun unless it's pointed at you. FTW and these so called judges who think they are above the Constitution.

 

[BC1]

how rong yuo are. i dont want to argue i just want a straight anwser. this is the first time ive heard from you and your calling me names.so who is that wants to argue.and i still dont have a yes or no answer

I went to our company attorney at PPA looking for an answer on this issue. As a former NYC DA he's well versed in this area. His response... you need to understand that the law is not black and white on any issue. There is no yes or no answer to your question. It is open to interpretation. Is he breaking the law at Walmart? NO!! He cannot be arrested. But since NY is a discretionary state a judge can revoke or suspend at will citing any number of things as just cause. Some liberal judges in discretionary states are itching for a reason to pull a permit. Others would warn him while still others would throw the issue out of their courtroom.

Some years ago I had a female student with a sporting permit caught driving home from an evening college class with her gun. The LEO took the gun and reported her to the judge. The judge's response was to upgrade her permit to unrestricted so she wouldn't have any more problems. The response to this question varies from locality to locality. Riff certainly has enough reason to justify an unrestricted permit and could probably have his license amended.

Everyone settle down. There really is no argument on this matter.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

are you saying his restricted permit is equal to mine.how is it sportsman like if he goes to walmart at 11pm.there is a yes or no answer you just dont want to say it, so i will. heres the bottom line.if he carries out side hie restriction and the judge finds out.his license can be revoked you know it and i know it.and if thats the case that means its wrong.and if you cant admit to it your a bad instructor.nyc laws are different from nys.

 

[JimPage]

BCI:

I gave up on armed-an-rdy. It doesn't matter what you say, he'll twist it to say he's right. He's not worth wasting time on in my book. I admire you for trying, but it's a futile case.

 

[BC1]

are you saying his restricted permit is equal to mine.how is it sportsman like if he goes to walmart at 11pm.there is a yes or no answer you just dont want to say it, so i will. heres the bottom line.if he carries out side hie restriction and the judge finds out.his license can be revoked you know it and i know it.and if thats the case that means its wrong.and if you cant admit to it your a bad instructor.nyc laws are different from nys.

YES!!! It is equal to yours under the defnition of the law as defined in Article 400, excluding NYC.

I'm not a bad instructor, I 'm certified to teach the NYS Penal Law and Criminal Procedure Law. I have an attorney on staff. He says one must look past those statutes and review case law. There you'll find your answer. It's a discretionary issue state, leaving the final word to the licensing offier. Your unrestricted carry permit can also be revoked if you bend over and the gun is exposed. Try dropping it in a local diner. One phone call to police and your permit may be gone; it depends on the opinion of the icensing officer. So you really don't have an unrestricted permit. Your permit is at the leisure of the licensing officer. If he's in a bad mood today, or just generally anti-gun, you're done.

I had a recent case of a business owner who trimmed his unrestricted permit so it would fit better in his wallet. He went to amend the permit to add a new gun an guess what happened? GONE! Revoked! It took our attorney over a year and about $7,500 in court fees to convince the judge to return it. The judge made him cry a little as a lesson. I'll bet he'll not make that mistake again.

It's never cut /dry or yes/no or black/white in NYS. Check NYS case law. Your answer lies therein. This continued argument is pointless.

JimPage, I agree with you. Some just won't understand how the law works in discretionary states. Not a slur on the poster, it's just ingorance of the law as most people understand it. I'll be the first to admit that the laws of NY are convoluted and confusing.

 

[armed-an-rdy]

now i know your bogus.whenyou get a gun ammended they take the old license and give you a new one.why would he trim it .its the same size as your driving license.did he trim that too.maybe all this happens in bogusville[where your from]why not stick to the point i didnt ask about a buisness man or bending over.and the answer is no riffmakers restricted license is not the same as mine.im begining to think you and riffmaker are the same.if it was the same he would be able to get a non resedency permit but he cant. why why ill tell you why because its restricted.you should leave this site because you have no interest only to advertise . does the b in you name stand for bogus

 

[JimPage]

BC1
He proved my point again. I'm done with this thread. The guy has ruined its value.

 

[BC1]

now i know your bogus.whenyou get a gun ammended they take the old license and give you a new one.why would he trim it .its the same size as your driving license.did he trim that too.maybe all this happens in bogusville[where your from]why not stick to the point i didnt ask about a buisness man or bending over.and the answer is no riffmakers restricted license is not the same as mine.im begining to think you and riffmaker are the same.if it was the same he would be able to get a non resedency permit but he cant. why why ill tell you why because its restricted.you should leave this site because you have no interest only to advertise . does the b in you name stand for bogus

Armed-an-ready. You must be young. For many years, and up until 2008 in some counties, New York permits were a 4"X6" PAPER permit with a passport photo glued to it. It said "RESTRICTED" on the front and the list of restrictions was on the back. It wasn't a credit card size as today's permits are. It had to be folded to fit in your wallet. This guy trimmed the permit, cutting off the word "RESTRICTED" at the top center of the paper. When he presented the permit to the county clerk's office the CSR immediately noticed the permit had been trimmed. Until 2007 you would receive instructions with your permit that forbid altering, cutting or laminating it. If you fell-in while fishing you had to get a replacement permit as the ink would run. The PAPER permits eventually ripped and became frayed.

Get a grip son. The accusatory nature is unbecoming. Bogus? Son, I was teaching military and police SWAT teams when you were still popping zits. Those of us in the business are scratching our heads reading these posts. Perhaps you should attend one of my lectures on Articles 35, 265 and 400 of the NY Penal Law. I'm of the mindset that those with a high degree of ignorance should be denied a permit as they're bound to make poor decisions. These continued responses only reinforce my opinion.

JimPage... sorry, I just had to. Couldn't sit back quietly anymore. :no:
BC Out.

 

[riffmaker]

Armed-an-ready. You must be young. For many years, and up until 2008 in some counties, New York permits were a 4"X6" PAPER permit with a passport photo glued to it. It said "RESTRICTED" on the front and the list of restrictions was on the back. It wasn't a credit card size as today's permits are. It had to be folded to fit in your wallet. This guy trimmed the permit, cutting off the word "RESTRICTED" at the top center of the paper. When he presented the permit to the county clerk's office the CSR immediately noticed the permit had been trimmed. Until 2007 you would receive instructions with your permit that forbid altering, cutting or laminating it. If you fell-in while fishing you had to get a replacement permit as the ink would run. The PAPER permits eventually ripped and became frayed.

Get a grip son. The accusatory nature is unbecoming. Bogus? Son, I was teaching military and police SWAT teams when you were still popping zits. Those of us in the business are scratching our heads reading these posts. Perhaps you should attend one of my lectures on Articles 35, 265 and 400 of the NY Penal Law. I'm of the mindset that those with a high degree of ignorance should be denied a permit as they're bound to make poor decisions. These continued responses only reinforce my opinion.

JimPage... sorry, I just had to. Couldn't sit back quietly anymore. :no:
BC Out.

BC1..

Very well said. This thread has been going on too long. There is only one person who has agreed with armed-and rdy and thats himself. And he still insists he is right. All In can say is that I am glad he is not a instructor or god forbid a judge because we would all have premise permits except him. BC1..thanks for your imput and service. Some of us do appreciate it. I also agree with some people having an ignorance test to qualify. Take care and stay safe.

 

[tj_cubin]

I got my permit in early 2009. It is a paper permit that must be folded to fit in my wallet. My father got his months after I did, and it was also a paper one with the picture glued to it. He has since added a gun and got a new credit card sized one.

When i changed my address they said i could get the new plastic ID one, but their machine was down at the time. They simply wrote my new address on the permit and updated their file.


NYS permits vary alot from county to county. Anything about your permit, how you got it, its description, ect... does not mean it is the same way in other counties. My permit took 9 months and is unrestriced. Some counties take a couple weeks, some only give restricted permits. Some counties allow you to put a gun on both your permit and your wife's permit, other counties don't allow this.

Anything you know or you think you know about your permit does not apply to anyone else's permit

 

[armed-an-rdy]

just 2 things i have to say.1 i still dont have an honest answer about riffmakers restricted permit,if hes rite that he carries all the time. 2 tj your unrestricted permit is the same as riffmakers. so go back to court and have them put on a restriction. because its the same as not haveing 1.i love you guys

 

[twogunwilly]

Holy moly! Huff paint much?

 

[trophyhunter]

I've only Known of one time that someone (Friend of Mine) was caught carrying outside his Restricted Permit. It was on Nov 26,2009 The only reason I remember the date is because my Son, Shot his first Buck. Later that evening My Fiend and I went out for dinner. I gave him a set of clothes to wear instead of hunting clothes. Before we went to eat, we stopped @ Dicks Sporting goods to Purchase some Ammo. My Friend was bending over looking at Ammo and, I noticed some lady Starring at his Exsposed Handgun. I honestly thought nothing of it and went about my Business. After I paid for Ammo we Headed out the Doors. Thats where it all went down. I noticed that same lady Talking to Leo's and she pointed our way. The Officer Called us over to his squad car, The officer asked my friend if he was Carrying and, If he had a Permit he said yes to both. From There the Officer asked to see his Permit and ID.After he examined his credentials The officer said that he noticed his permit was for Target & Hunting only we explained our Adventures for that day The whole time the Officer acted like he was our Life long friend. very professional. The officer turned to me and said, I presume you are armed as well. I said yes, he asked to see my permit. I complied he asked how come I have Unrerstricted and my friend did'nt. I explained that I have had my Permit for about 8 years. In the end the Officer advised us to have a great evening and too enjoy our dinner. So I think when it comes to carrying outside of your restrictions.First and, Fore most It depends on the Leo. 2nd it depends on where you are and, what you are doing. I think if we had been in a Bar Things would of played out a little different. I 've asked this question to many Leo's and it seems, I get the same responce. It all depends where & what you are doiing at the time of Contact. hope this helps

 

[hunter won]

I've only Known of one time that someone (Friend of Mine) was caught carrying outside his Restricted Permit. It was on Nov 26,2009 The only reason I remember the date is because my Son, Shot his first Buck. Later that evening My Fiend and I went out for dinner. I gave him a set of clothes to wear instead of hunting clothes. Before we went to eat, we stopped @ Dicks Sporting goods to Purchase some Ammo. My Friend was bending over looking at Ammo and, I noticed some lady Starring at his Exsposed Handgun. I honestly thought nothing of it and went about my Business. After I paid for Ammo we Headed out the Doors. Thats where it all went down. I noticed that same lady Talking to Leo's and she pointed our way. The Officer Called us over to his squad car, The officer asked my friend if he was Carrying and, If he had a Permit he said yes to both. From There the Officer asked to see his Permit and ID.After he examined his credentials The officer said that he noticed his permit was for Target & Hunting only we explained our Adventures for that day The whole time the Officer acted like he was our Life long friend. very professional. The officer turned to me and said, I presume you are armed as well. I said yes, he asked to see my permit. I complied he asked how come I have Unrerstricted and my friend did'nt. I explained that I have had my Permit for about 8 years. In the end the Officer advised us to have a great evening and too enjoy our dinner. So I think when it comes to carrying outside of your restrictions.First and, Fore most It depends on the Leo. 2nd it depends on where you are and, what you are doing. I think if we had been in a Bar Things would of played out a little different. I 've asked this question to many Leo's and it seems, I get the same responce. It all depends where & what you are doiing at the time of Contact. hope this helps

Your friend was very lucky, he was unable to properly conceal the weapon and that could of been a menacing charge which could of permantly ended his pistol license.If the woman called 911 it would of created a problem for your friend who would be getting his pistol license yanked.

 

[LintLTJ5]

What if you are carrying outside your restrictions and you are forced to draw and use your weapon to stop a threat to your life? What would be the consequences, assuming you were determined to be 100% justified by authorities in using lethal force?
After reading the thread, I would assume that
A: Your permit could be revoked or suspended
B: You could be charged with menacing
C: Nothing at all

I would assume that LEOs would not worry about it since you used it to save your life and possibly the lives of others, but you never know. Do I assume too much of our authorities?

 

[dojoman]

Not that I care, but just remember everyone that carries outside of their restrictions. Should you get caught, and I honestly think it is only a matter of time when you do, most likely you will loose your permit. (either caught or someone that doesnt like you and knows you carry outside of it makes a complaint to a judge) And for people that have mulit-state permits, you'll probably loose those too. Im not trying to place fear into ya, just think about it is all. If you really want to carry, write a letter, dont be lazy and just say, eh w/e i dont care im gonna carry anyways. Cas with that mind set, you could just be a criminal if you want. Side note, remember in NY you cant own pistols without a permit.......sooooooo guess what? You'll be selling off all your little babies or worse yet the courts take them. Just something to think about.
Im 100% for carrying, I had to jump threw all the hoops to get it and wrote a letter. Its not easy, but it was worth it. Carrying outside of a restriction is only going to make everyone else look bad, and you can beat if the media finds out they willl butcher you on the news. With the crack downs on almost everything by the cops, your bound to run into one sooner or later. Please dont make the rest of us look bad and make Albany question if CC should be allowed.

 

[BC1]

What if you are carrying outside your restrictions and you are forced to draw and use your weapon to stop a threat to your life? What would be the consequences, assuming you were determined to be 100% justified by authorities in using lethal force?
After reading the thread, I would assume that
A: Your permit could be revoked or suspended
B: You could be charged with menacing
C: Nothing at all

I would assume that LEOs would not worry about it since you used it to save your life and possibly the lives of others, but you never know. Do I assume too much of our authorities?

Article 35 of the NYS Penal Law provides for "defense of justification" when using force or deadly force. Your right to sel defense would not be altered by the possession of the gun outside of restrictions. The matter would be handled in two areas.

First your actions in self defense justification will be reviewed by the DA and he'll decide whether or not it goes to a grand jury. They will decide if your actions fit the definitions in Article 35 and were they in line with the actions of a prudent person, given the situation and type of threat. Carrying the gun outside of restrictions does not alter this.

Second, you may be subject to a temporary suspension or permanent revocation depending on the circumstances behind the restrictions violation. If you were in a bar? Say goodbye to the permit. If you stopped at a diner for a bite on the way home from a sporting event, the judge may see your actions as reasonable and within the wide berth often given. thus no action may be taken on your permit.