Alcohol and concealed carry

[B2Tall]

So either you or someone you know can't handle their alcohol and/or doesn't have the ability to say when. Most people don't have this problem. The ones that do usually end up on a reality t.v. show.

Most people know when to say "when" most of the time, but not all of the time. 99% of the people that drink have their moments of drunkeness even though they're normally responsible drinkers. In the bars that I manage there are people that I see almost every day and have so for years. Every one of them has gotten poop-faced at least once. I'm willing to bet that you've gotten trashed at least once too.

Everyone has their limit, including you whether you'll admit it or not. There isn't a human being walking this earth that is immune to the effects of alcohol. It may take longer for those effects to manifest themselves in certain people than in others but make no mistake......that first sip of beer or booze is the first step towards all the glories of alcohol-induced idiocy. Whether you get that far is up to you but the problem is that most people don't know they've reached that point until it's too late.

I'm not saying that one beer is going to turn somebody into a raving lunatic but too many times I've seen people say "I'm OK....I can have one more" over and over again until they're drunk. If you get drunk and shoot your mouth off you can always apologize the next day and take back what you said. There are no do-overs with guns. If you get drunk and shoot your gun off, be it accidentally or on purpose, you can't take that bullet back. It's effects on other people are usually irreversible.

Ask the people who work in the industry. I work with quite a few gun-toters, some of whom would be quite at home with you literal interpreters of 2A. I have yet to find one who thinks allowing guns into bars is a good idea.

 

[harleybass47]

If (god forbid) you ever have to use your gun for self defense you'll have enough hoops to jump through without putting more in front of yourself.

 

[Edsworld]

Ask the people who work in the industry. I work with quite a few gun-toters, some of whom would be quite at home with you literal interpreters of 2A. I have yet to find one who thinks allowing guns into bars is a good idea.

So the only one in the bar with a gun is the BG, that doesn't obey the laws anyway?

 

[B2Tall]

So the only one in the bar with a gun is the BG, that doesn't obey the laws anyway?

Not in our bars. Florida law allows employees to carry even in places that the general public can't. I'd estimate that at least half of the male staff (and some of the female staff) in our employ are CCers. At any given time in any one of our businesses there are at least 2 or 3 armed staffers on the premises. That may be of little comfort to you but it's better than nothing.

That being said, the danger from a room full of drunks or semi-drunks who are carrying is much greater than that of a BG coming in and brandishing a gun. You may be able to "hold your liquor" but there's a good chance the guy next to you at the bar can't. Ditto for the guys at the table across the room, etc. In the combined 50+ yr history of the establishments that my bosses own, there has never been an incident involving a firearm. We have, however, had occasional incidents involving beer bottles, chairs, fists, etc., etc., even a knife once or twice, and I shudder to think what would have happened if any of those people had a gun on them. An ordinary bar scrum would have been turned into a murder investigation.

As I've said before, the bottom line is that if you don't want to voluntarily surrender your right to carry, don't go into a bar where carrying is not permitted. Pretty simple.

 

[Beau]

Most people know when to say "when" most of the time, but not all of the time. 99% of the people that drink have their moments of drunkeness even though they're normally responsible drinkers. In the bars that I manage there are people that I see almost every day and have so for years. Every one of them has gotten poop-faced at least once. I'm willing to bet that you've gotten trashed at least once too.

Everyone has their limit, including you whether you'll admit it or not. There isn't a human being walking this earth that is immune to the effects of alcohol. It may take longer for those effects to manifest themselves in certain people than in others but make no mistake......that first sip of beer or booze is the first step towards all the glories of alcohol-induced idiocy. Whether you get that far is up to you but the problem is that most people don't know they've reached that point until it's too late.

I'm not saying that one beer is going to turn somebody into a raving lunatic but too many times I've seen people say "I'm OK....I can have one more" over and over again until they're drunk. If you get drunk and shoot your mouth off you can always apologize the next day and take back what you said. There are no do-overs with guns. If you get drunk and shoot your gun off, be it accidentally or on purpose, you can't take that bullet back. It's effects on other people are usually irreversible.

Ask the people who work in the industry. I work with quite a few gun-toters, some of whom would be quite at home with you literal interpreters of 2A. I have yet to find one who thinks allowing guns into bars is a good idea.

In Colorado it is legal to carry into bars. No blood in the streets.
In IN it is legal to carry in a bar. No blood in the streets.
I'm sure there are others but those are the two I'm sure of.

Here's the deal. Your arguing a point based on your perceived impression on what people will do. There're whole groups of people that do that who are against firearms in general.

My whole point is that people are responsible for themselves. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me I can't carry if I'm going to have a drink with dinner. Keep you nannyism to yourself and follow your own policies. Don't force them on me.

I know for a fact that I am responsible enough to drink and carry. I know when to say when. I don't drink to get drunk. In fact I Hate drunkeness. The four drinks I had the other night at dinner, (spread over 3 hours) is the most I've had to drink at one time in years.

Are there people that shouldn't carry and drink. Yes.
Are there people that can handle carry and drinking. Yes.

Shoud we make laws to ban behavior based on the fear and assumptions of what we think other people might do?
NO!!!!!!!!
This is exactly how we've got ourselves into the state of nannyism that we are currently in.

 

[BruceGAtl]

In Colorado it is legal to carry into bars. No blood in the streets.
In IN it is legal to carry in a bar. No blood in the streets.
I'm sure there are others but those are the two I'm sure of.

Here's the deal. Your arguing a point based on your perceived impression on what people will do. There're whole groups of people that do that who are against firearms in general.

My whole point is that people are responsible for themselves. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me I can't carry if I'm going to have a drink with dinner. Keep you nannyism to yourself and follow your own policies. Don't force them on me.

I know for a fact that I am responsible enough to drink and carry. I know when to say when. I don't drink to get drunk. In fact I Hate drunkeness. The four drinks I had the other night at dinner, (spread over 3 hours) is the most I've had to drink at one time in years.

Are there people that shouldn't carry and drink. Yes.
Are there people that can handle carry and drinking. Yes.

Shoud we make laws to ban behavior based on the fear and assumptions of what we think other people might do?
NO!!!!!!!!
This is exactly how we've got ourselves into the state of nannyism that we are currently in.

Thank you Beau, kel and a few others....

I was beginning to think that I had stumbled into the Brady Campaign headquarters with all the "yes, let's restrict", "people can't be trusted", and
other such talk. :fie:

I think I just found my way back to America... leasantry:

 

[B2Tall]

In Colorado it is legal to carry into bars. No blood in the streets.
In IN it is legal to carry in a bar. No blood in the streets.
I'm sure there are others but those are the two I'm sure of.

I can't comment on people Colorado or Indiana. I live in Florida, South Florida to be specific. Down here we have a much higher crime rate and a much greater population density than in those two states. More people + more alcohol = more problems. Florida is quite the party state, especially the Dade/Broward/Palm Beach county area. I'm sure you'll find that all alcohol-related incidents occur at a much higher rate here than they do in most other places in the country. As a result the lawmakers of this state (in an example of state's rights) have chosen to prohibit legal carrying in "places of nuisance" of which bars are one of those places. The vast majority of people who work in the alcohol industry down here agree with that prohibition, even people who usually don't agree to firearm restrictions.

 

[Edsworld]

In Colorado it is legal to carry into bars. No blood in the streets.
In IN it is legal to carry in a bar. No blood in the streets.
I'm sure there are others but those are the two I'm sure of.

Here's the deal. Your arguing a point based on your perceived impression on what people will do. There're whole groups of people that do that who are against firearms in general.

My whole point is that people are responsible for themselves. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me I can't carry if I'm going to have a drink with dinner. Keep you nannyism to yourself and follow your own policies. Don't force them on me.

I know for a fact that I am responsible enough to drink and carry. I know when to say when. I don't drink to get drunk. In fact I Hate drunkeness. The four drinks I had the other night at dinner, (spread over 3 hours) is the most I've had to drink at one time in years.

Are there people that shouldn't carry and drink. Yes.
Are there people that can handle carry and drinking. Yes.

Shoud we make laws to ban behavior based on the fear and assumptions of what we think other people might do?
NO!!!!!!!!
This is exactly how we've got ourselves into the state of nannyism that we are currently in.

Thank You.

 

[Edsworld]

I can't comment on people Colorado or Indiana. I live in Florida, South Florida to be specific. Down here we have a much higher crime rate and a much greater population density than in those two states. More people + more alcohol = more problems. Florida is quite the party state, especially the Dade/Broward/Palm Beach county area. I'm sure you'll find that all alcohol-related incidents occur at a much higher rate here than they do in most other places in the country. As a result the lawmakers of this state (in an example of state's rights) have chosen to prohibit legal carrying in "places of nuisance" of which bars are one of those places. The vast majority of people who work in the alcohol industry down here agree with that prohibition, even people who usually don't agree to firearm restrictions.

WOW. I don't know how to respond to that. I'll have to read it a few more times. I'll get back to you.

 

[B2Tall]

WOW. I don't know how to respond to that. I'll have to read it a few more times. I'll get back to you.

Ed, next time you get out of sleepy New Mexico, come and visit us here in S. Florida. Maybe then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Life in the fast lane, buddy.

Allow me to clarify something - I'm not against someone carrying and having a beverage or two. I have no problem with somebody having a couple of drinks during dinner at a restaurant, and neither does the state of Florida. I'm against people carrying and overdoing it. I don't know how it is in Indiana or New Mexico or Vermont, but where I live most people don't go bars in order to sip on a drink for a couple of hours or to have a quick one on the way home from work. Down here they come to party. Even people getting off work come in for a couple of hours and quite a few drinks. Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Daytona, etc......it's very much a party culture down here. I know people who have trouble paying their phone bill every month yet they always have a well-stocked tiki bar on their back patio. Bars are where people come to get sloshed....or at least catch a nice buzz. Bars are where people come to overdo it in Florida, not to nurse a beer.

Of the 5 places my boss owns, only one of them isn't classified as a "place of nuisance". It's more of a conventional restaurant and although alcohol is served, it's perfectly legal to carry there. CCers are welcome and you'd be hard-pressed to find an intoxicated person there. Not so for the other places. The state doesn't want people in bars to have guns on them and neither do we. Too dangerous for everyone around.....far more dangerous than the remote chance that a BG walks in and starts shooting.

Don't like it?? Then stay out of bars in Florida. We all have that option.

 

[Midnight]

the vast majority of people who work in the alcohol industry down here agree with that prohibition, even people who usually don't agree to firearm restrictions.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Criminals don't follow the law. When are you people going to get the message? THUGS ARE GOING TO CARRY REGARDLESS OF THE LAW AND WILL BE FREE TO DO AS THEY PLEASE COMPLETELY UNOPPOSED.

 

[nogods]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Criminals don't follow the law. When are you people going to get the message? THUGS ARE GOING TO CARRY REGARDLESS OF THE LAW AND WILL BE FREE TO DO AS THEY PLEASE COMPLETELY UNOPPOSED.

We enact laws for law abiding people to follow. We attach punishment to those laws for the criminals who don't follow them.

Laws are a social contract amongst the members of a society. They define expected behaviors.

If we didn't enact laws simply because some would break them, then we would have no laws at all.

When a person doesn't understand the basics of our social, political, and legal system, it is no surprise they SHOUT a lot baloney.

"Messages" no matter how loudly expressed, don't always make sense despite the delusions of the messenger.

 

[Midnight]

We enact laws for law abiding people to follow. We attach punishment to those laws for the criminals who don't follow them.

Laws are a social contract amongst the members of a society. They define expected behaviors.

If we didn't enact laws simply because some would break them, then we would have no laws at all.

When a person doesn't understand the basics of our social, political, and legal system, it is no surprise they SHOUT a lot baloney.

"Messages" no matter how loudly expressed, don't always make sense despite the delusions of the messenger.

You have mispositioned my statement with a strawman fallacy. But when we enact laws, it is presumed that they are there for the betterment of society. The problem with gun control laws is that they do the exact opposite. They limit the freedoms of everyday people. When it comes to gun laws, the few the better. People will need to defend themselves against threats, whether they be gang-bangers or a tyrannical government.

 

[kelcarry]

Our dear lawmakers are the biggest hypocrites in this country when it comes to making laws for the rest of us. At every turn they either break them or are excused from them. It is "do as I say and not as I do" and I for one am sick of it. I consider myself a law abiding responsible citizen and CC. I also have a car. I do not drink when I drive (maybe a beer or a glass of wine max) and I would do the same if I were CC. If you go over the limit and get caught or worse, kill someone, you should go to jail and/or be assessed a very meaningful fine. If you do it a second time you go to jail for a long time. I am tired of watching lives change because of drunks on the road. I do not need a bunch of hypocrites telling me what I can and cannot do, when all it is is meaningless, hypocritical, feel good crap.

 

[Edsworld]

Ed, next time you get out of sleepy New Mexico, come and visit us here in S. Florida. Maybe then you'll understand what I'm talking about. Life in the fast lane, buddy.

Allow me to clarify something - I'm not against someone carrying and having a beverage or two. I have no problem with somebody having a couple of drinks during dinner at a restaurant, and neither does the state of Florida. I'm against people carrying and overdoing it. I don't know how it is in Indiana or New Mexico or Vermont, but where I live most people don't go bars in order to sip on a drink for a couple of hours or to have a quick one on the way home from work. Down here they come to party. Even people getting off work come in for a couple of hours and quite a few drinks. Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Daytona, etc......it's very much a party culture down here. I know people who have trouble paying their phone bill every month yet they always have a well-stocked tiki bar on their back patio. Bars are where people come to get sloshed....or at least catch a nice buzz. Bars are where people come to overdo it in Florida, not to nurse a beer.

Of the 5 places my boss owns, only one of them isn't classified as a "place of nuisance". It's more of a conventional restaurant and although alcohol is served, it's perfectly legal to carry there. CCers are welcome and you'd be hard-pressed to find an intoxicated person there. Not so for the other places. The state doesn't want people in bars to have guns on them and neither do we. Too dangerous for everyone around.....far more dangerous than the remote chance that a BG walks in and starts shooting.

Don't like it?? Then stay out of bars in Florida. We all have that option.

Oh, I understand what your talking about, Gun Control. I Will never agree with it.

It is not wise to assume someone hasn't been around just bacause of where they live.

 

[missoak]

IMHO- If you drink--DON'T CARRY !
If you carry--DON'T DRINK !
SIMPLE

 

[nogods]

You have mispositioned my statement with a strawman fallacy. But when we enact laws, it is presumed that they are there for the betterment of society. The problem with gun control laws is that they do the exact opposite. They limit the freedoms of everyday people. When it comes to gun laws, the few the better. People will need to defend themselves against threats, whether they be gang-bangers or a tyrannical government.

How does a law against possessing a weapon while intoxicated not benefit society and "limit the freedoms of everyday people"? How does a law that prohibits gun ownership by the insane, the incompetent, and the previously convicted violent criminal not benefit society and "limit the freedoms of everyday people"?

I guess if you are an alcoholic or a felon or a mentally ill person. But how is a law abiding mentally competent non-drug abusing "every day" person excessively burden by such laws?

The fact that criminals will break laws is of no relevance to the issue. We don't enact laws for criminals. We enact laws for law abiding people. We attach punishment to laws for the criminals who might break them.

 

[Beau]

IMHO- If I drink--DON'T CARRY !
If I carry--DON'T DRINK !
SIMPLE

FIFY. Follow your own rule. Don't try and force it on the rest of us.

How does a law against possessing a weapon while intoxicated not benefit society and "limit the freedoms of everyday people"? How does a law that prohibits gun ownership by the insane, the incompetent, and the previously convicted violent criminal not benefit society and "limit the freedoms of everyday people"?

I guess if you are an alcoholic or a felon or a mentally ill person. But how is a law abiding mentally competent non-drug abusing "every day" person excessively burden by such laws?

The fact that criminals will break laws is of no relevance to the issue. We don't enact laws for criminals. We enact laws for law abiding people. We attach punishment to laws for the criminals who might break them.

First off you are assuming that the intoxicated person is automatically going to commit some crime.

It limits my freedom because my right to keep and bear arms has been taken away if I decide, depending on the state I'm in, to have a drink with dinner. Or to go into a bar with friends to have a drink and shoot pool, etc..
In some states I can't even go into a grocery store that sells alcohol without committing a felony.

I'm not getting into the other two. The topic is alcohol. Not felons and crazies.

 

[B2Tall]

Oh, I understand what your talking about, Gun Control. I Will never agree with it.

You agree to gun control, Ed. You might not admit it to us here on these boards......but you agree to it. You know that there are people out there walking the streets who shouldn't be allowed to have a firearm. That's gun control, buddy.

 

[Edsworld]

You agree to gun control, Ed. You might not admit it to us here on these boards......but you agree to it. You know that there are people out there walking the streets who shouldn't be allowed to have a firearm. That's gun control, buddy.

No there is not! Everyone has the right to defend them selves. Nobody should be denied the right to bare arms. NOBODY.

You are assuming again. And your wrong again.

2nd Amendment does not have The words: But, Unless, If, or Until.