And........I'm pretty sure I said it was the people who vote on these laws. The Supreme Court rules on wethern those laws are unconstitutional. The only thing you've proved is you either didn't fully read my post or you didn't understand what you were reading. Go back and find where I posted its the state's voters who passed these gun laws who infringed on your right to bear arms not the government. Thanks for proving to me you really don't have a clue.
open carry
- Thread starter seeley booth
- Start date
When have you voted on a law, especially a Federal law? Every state has thousands of laws on the books and only a tiny small percentage of those that are enacted as initiatives in states that have an initiative process are voted on by the people.
CharlesMorrison
Banned
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These are the laws that were passed in your state of Massachusetts in 2014:
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How many of those laws did John Doe Massachusetts voter get to vote on?
Not sure how your state works but we vote on laws all the time. State laws. The commity even meets with citizens to hear their input before the bill even goes to the governer. I never said anything about federal law. That wasn't even the topic. It was wether or not state laws and restriction infringed on our right to bear arms. In which case the Supreme Court ruled state laws did not infringe and it was constitutional to enforce such regulations.
that is the whole purpose of the Legislative branch of government...to enact laws. Laws can also be adopted in many states through "referendum" -- that is by bills that are put directly on the ballot for people to vote directly on -- by most law is generated by congress. In the long run you still vote on these laws by electing the people who make them.
Fallschirmjäger
New member
Some idiot hasn't read McDonald v Chicago.
Are you intentionally being ignorant again?
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There were 503 new laws enacted in Massachusetts in 2014
Elections: 2014 Statewide Ballot Questions
The people got to vote on 4 of them.
Isn't that about average? If a vote was cast for every law, each citizen would have to read thousands and thousands of pages of legislative. Each citizen would have to essentially a lawyer to understand all the details of every bill. Most people wouldn't have time to work a job if they had to read and understand all the clauses in every bill. That is why the "people" vote for representatives based on their values and political views. State legislatures enact laws that apply to their state. In each state, voters are grouped into legislative districts for the state legislature or general assembly. You are assigned to a district for the upper and lower houses of your legislature. The upper house is usually called the Senate, and the lower one, the House of Representatives. You choose an official for each house of the state legislature. The terms vary from two to four years.
The ever-efficient and tidy state of Nebraska has only one house in its legislature consisting of 49 members with no party affiliations.
The ever-efficient and tidy state of Nebraska has only one house in its legislature consisting of 49 members with no party affiliations.
Cities, towns, and counties also have elections to choose officials for their legislative and executive branches. Some judicial offices may be elected at the local level, but these courts handle small-claims issues or local ordinances for minor matters. State law largely governs criminal and civil matters.
Mayors, city council members, county commissioners, and the like are elected at the local level. How, when, and for how long these officials are chosen depends on state law. Some states elect local officials in odd-numbered years, some in even-numbered years. Some officials have term limits; some don't. Your state or county election board or clerk's office can tell you how these elections work in your community.
Mayors, city council members, county commissioners, and the like are elected at the local level. How, when, and for how long these officials are chosen depends on state law. Some states elect local officials in odd-numbered years, some in even-numbered years. Some officials have term limits; some don't. Your state or county election board or clerk's office can tell you how these elections work in your community.
B
Bikenut
Guest
That would be easy for you to do... simply add up your own misspelled words and divide that number by how many posts you have made.
That is exactly what "born with a right" means. Every human being on earth is born with the same rights as every other human being regardless of what geographical borders they happen to be born in. It is governments within geographical borders that impose penalties on actually exercising those rights.
Incorrect question. The real question is ... "Who are you to sit there and say the people in Europe AREN'T born with the right to bear arms?" As for the naive notion that the people of each nation should decide for themselves if they have the right to bear arms doesn't take into account those nations where the people don't get to decide anything because their dictators/kings do the deciding for them.
The defense of self is the right all humans are born with. And humans have been inventing weapons to use (keep and bear) for that defense from day one. From clubs to sharp sticks to spears to knives and swords to arrows to trebuchets and firearms are only the latest example of effective weaponry used for defense against attackers whether those attackers be individual criminals, invading criminal armies, or one's own criminal government. And God gave man the ability to think and therefor use things (including trees) to invent weapons to defend his ability (as you put it below) to eat, sleep, breathe, and excrete.
If people have the right to eat, sleep, breathe, and excrete
The Declaration of Independence
-snip-
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -snip-
doesn't it follow that people also have been endowed by their Creator with the right to defend themselves using weaponry invented along the way in order to continue to enjoy the right to eat, sleep, breathe, and excrete?
You are entitled to have the opinion that rights come from the government. Please consider that the Bill of Rights is not a list of things the government allows the people to do but is a list of things the people have said the government is not allowed to do.
Now about that freedom of speech thing...... if the government "gives" you the right to free speech then it would be logical for the government to have the power to restrict (infringe upon) your ability to speak freely and could require mandatory training and be in control of who will/who won't be given a permit to speak. Hey... if it's Ok for the 2nd Amendment then it should also be Ok to apply the same reasoning to all the other amendments (rights).... correct?
Well... think about that permits thing for a while.... decide if you have the right to bear arms or if you only have the privilege according to how the government says you are allowed. Keep in mind that if one must have a permit to be allowed then those who do not have a permit are NOT allowed. How does that "NOT allowed" part of a privilege fit into having a right? Oh... and if there is only the privilege why is it referred to as the "right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" in the 2nd Amendment? Shouldn't it have read "the privilege to keep and bear arms restricted according to the whims of the government"?
Do you really think the government having control over the ability to exercise the right to keep and bear has anything at all to do with guns or freedom?
Actually we either have the right to keep and bear arms... all arms carried in any manner we wish without government interference... or we only have the privilege granted by the government according to whatever restrictions the government wishes to impose. If a right is controlled it is not a right but is a privilege controlled by whoever .... has control.
Nor does it matter if we personally agree with the restrictions (infringements) the government imposes on who is/is NOT allowed, where it is/is NOT allowed, what kind is/is NOT allowed, how it is/is NOT allowed, .... to exercise the right to bear arms. The whole point is the ability to exercise the right is being restricted by the government to who/what/where/how the government considers "acceptable" to be allowed.... which makes exercising your rights a privilege controlled by the government. And having to get a permit IS the government infringing upon (being in control of the allowing) the right to bear arms.
I think maybe you'd rather live in a country with a differnt style government? Seems to me, from what you guys keep posting, you don't like anything about the United States of America. You don't like our laws, you don't like how our government is set up by it's founders, you don't like our legislative process, you don't like our voting process... What about this country do you like??
B
Bikenut
Guest
Is that an attempt to deflect and redirect the discussion so you can avoid defending your arguments? Saul Alinsky would be so proud!
This was a great response. You made some great points. I can actually see where you're coming from and agree to some degree. Whether I agree with all of it or not it is opinion. I'd rather not sit here and say which of your opinions I agree with and which I don't. Everytime I voice an opinion a wave of hostile and attacking post follow. I appreciate the time you took to hit each one of those points. You really do have great arguments. Most I have no rebuttal and move to agree with you.
I will say that any restriction regarding firearms state, federal or local is an infringement on our 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms. Whether it is truly unconstitutional or not is for the Supreme Court to decide. I would say I don't "mind" these laws because I feel they personally don't effect me. Yes, I had to pay for my Class A LTC but the $100 fee isn't going to force me out on the street. My LTC "allows" me to carry concealed/open my loaded pistol anywhere in the state. 3 restrictions: schools, federal buildings and court houses. Maybe if I didn't have such a non restrictive LTC I would personaly feel these laws/restrictions are unjust. Call me selfish but the fact my junky brother can't get his LTC is not my problem. All I care about is my wife's and my ability to protect our daughter. My wife and I carry loaded handguns, concealed, everywhere at all times. To my family, that's all that matter. All this mumbo jumbo about gun laws doesn't effect my wife's or my ability to Keep and Bear Arms.
I guess this is where my views differ from yours. Maybe you guys have laws in your state the personally effect your right to bear arms. If that were the case I would feel as strong about it as you. I don't feel any MA. or federal law has infringed on my right to keep and bear arms. I guess that's why I don't see some of these restrictions as unconstitutional because they don't effect me what so ever.
Fallschirmjäger
New member
Yes, it's just another attempt to provoke controversy, something he's already admitted is his purpose here (he thinks it's ""fun"").
I've already copy/paste sections from the constitution and Supreme Court decisions that proved my arguments. You guys are the ones that moved the conversation to the voting process and away from the actual main discussion.
I've come to the conclusion that it must just be that I'm selfish. I only care about keeping my wife and daughter safe. As long as these "strict" "infringing" gun laws continue to not affect my wife's and my "right" to bear arms then I will never feel as passionate about this topic as you guys. As long as my state issued "permission slip" allows me to buy and posses large capacity firearms and carry my handgun anywhere I want then I don't think these "terrible" "unconstitutional" laws and regulations that have no affect on me what so ever are a "big deal". It's not for my lack of love for firearms. Firearms are a part of my families everyday life. It's my lack of concern for things that don't affect me. I have real world problems that effect my everyday life like paying bills and putting food on the table. The fact that someone else had made poor life decisions and is no longer eligible to receive a LTC "permission slip" to carry a gun is the least of my problems. Until the day a law is passed that restricts me personally from carrying a firearm then I don't see the justification for wasting my time worrying about someone in another state or even my own state's ability to carry a firearm. It's every man for himself in the real world. That's why I carry a gun everyday, I don't need to rely on someone else to protect my family. I don't care about anyone else. Must be my lack of southern hospitality.
