I open carry quite frequently and I am almost always carrying on our property. I open carry my Citadel 1911 .45 or my .38 special revolver. This is Idaho though and this is an open carry state. I do not need a CCW to carry concealed on my own property either. When going anywhere I usually put the .38 on the dashboard of the pickup. If I hit a deer and it isn't dead, I can call the Sheriffs dept. and they will call Fish & Game to get me permission to put the deer down.
Wow do we really look like that from the outside?
- Thread starter Johnny Dollar
- Start date
Personally, I think open carry will not do much for personal protection. Muggers and thieves will just know who to avoid. It is the concealed carry (like the pain-in-the-rear Illinois law) that will thwart a lot of personal crime. What fool would take a chance that the person he wants to roll just may have a weapon to give him (or her) a third eye?
Johnny Dollar
New member
That first post was purely about stirrin' it
I carry a gun for the protection of myself and my family, not general society. Isn't the best success at protecting myself and my family achieved when that the mugger and thief does not attack me to begin with and, instead, they avoid myself and my family? The initial avoidance of an attack is a much better situation for myself and my family than the successful defense against an attack that has happened with the potential of my family being traumatized by the original attack, potentially seeing me killing another person, and the possible resultant legal issues from the situation.
It is certainly true that areas that have greater rates of firearms ownership and greater ability for Joe Citizen to be armed also have the lowest crime rates. But, for my personal protection and the protection of my family - if the mugger and thief just wants to avoid me, that is the greatest success I can achieve.
May I remind you of your own words:
So, apparently for 20 years by your own words you were previously openly carrying to satisfy some need of your ego?
Ooops...sorry Bikenut, I see you already had the same thought I did....
It pretty much all has to do with where you live. Out here in the sticks where I live there aren't any muggers. Predators here have 4 legs. Wolves, mountain lions, coyotes and bears. I usually put a loaded pistol on the dashboard of my pickup and the reason for doing so is if a deer runs right in front of the truck but the impact doesn't kill it, I can then put it down. If we lived in a city/town where there was high crime, I would carry concealed because i would also be concerned for safety of myself and my family. I always carry when out riding in the mountains. The Idaho tourist board even strongly recommends that people going into the mountains for hiking even carry a gun.
BC1
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I think the key term you used is "attacked." Once attacked the CC'er can be behind the reactionary curve. The time needed to get-out the CC weapon is longer than one openly carried for sure. That could result in a bad outcome. While I'm not so sure about the deterrent factor of OC I am sure that the OC'er will get that gat into play quicker. And once attacked that's important.
BC1
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Unless we're white. Then they'll say WHITE GUY, 6' tall, blonde hair, blue eyes.
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Can you imagine putting out an amber alert on a child abduction that eliminates racial info? "Suspect is a person, 6' tall, has hair and eyes." I personally think profiling works.
B
Bikenut
Guest
While all that is true I think (that means the following is merely an opinion worth exactly what was paid for it) there is a different perspective, a different way of thinking, between those who recognize that OC can/could/might prevent an "attack" because the bad guy saw the gun and decided not to attack in the first place and those who CC thinking they are all set to react to an attack after it begins.
With OC the sight of the gun is what might prevent the attack (deter the bad guy from attacking in the first place)... with CC the sight of the gun might stop the attack already in progress.
The CCer is thinking about reacting to an attack while the OCer is thinking about possibly preventing an attack so he doesn't even have to react at all while still having the same ability as the CCer to react if he is attacked.
Now.. I hope no one reading the above starts thinking I said that OC will always prevent an attack because it won't. Attacks on OCers are extremely rare but can happen... but then... while the sight of an OC'd gun may not prevent all attacks but can prevent some attacks the sight of a CC'd gun doesn't do anything until after the attack has begun.
For me personally, if the sight of my OC'd gun "surprises" just one bad guy and causes him to decide not to attack me then if the attack never happened I don't have to suffer all the consequences of dealing with police, or the courts, or the bad guy's family, or lawsuits, and then there is the oft neglected to talk about consequence that bad guys are still people and even if the shooting was necessary there are still emotional consequences to seeing someone squirming, bleeding, and screaming in pain.... or laying there dead... because you shot them. And I don't have to go through any of that because my open carried gun did it's job of protecting me from all of that stuff just by being where the bad guy can be "surprised" to see it.
Also... I hope no one takes what I said to mean I think OC is better than CC... both have their positives and both have their negatives and while both are useful neither is inherently "better" than the other.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
As to the bold part, one thing we all can be sure of is that there is no potential for CC to have any deterrent effect, while even the most staunchly committed CC'er could never disprove the potential for OC to have such an effect.
I rarely even thought about OC as a daily routine until the law that went into effect here in August started looking like it was getting positive reactions from state legislators. As it became apparent that it was going to pass, I started checking out this OC forum to learn what the appeal is. I kind of always thought of OC as a political statement rather than "good tactics" for lack of a better, less military-sounding phrase. While all of the regular OC'ers around here made lots of sense, it was Bikenut who put the deterrent factor into understandable terms, I don't know, maybe three to six months ago, and I remember saying then that I'm all about avoiding trouble, and if the sight of my weapon even has the potential to add to my ability to avoid it, then I'm going to get my head in the right place and take advantage of our recent change in the law that makes it nearly impossible for cops to use OC as the only basis for a stop and/or arrest and/or charge. So I've been OC'ing over the last month and a half or so. Been in and out of Costco and Walmart several times each. Nary a word from anybody. My wife is starting a new job the first of the year where 90% or better will be tele-commuting, so I had to go a few places and round up some used furniture and office equipment, most of which I found on Craig's List, so I was going to people's homes and storage units to pick it up. I really expected to have someone at least say something about the weapon, but no one did. Paid the man, loaded the desk/chair/file cabinet/monitors on the trailer with the help of the people I got them from, and no one said a word about the gun. Oh, and in the last month and a half I haven't been attacked either! LOL Haven't been attacked in the last 35 years of CC either, but I know for sure that that had nothing to do with it being obvious that I have always had the means to defend myself, and now it is obvious, so the potential deterrent will always be there from now on and I hope and pray that it will get me through the next whatever I left of this life (which I know for a fact ain't gonna be another 35 years!) without ever having to use it still.
Blues
B
Bikenut
Guest
And I whole heartedly agree that being aware and staying alert are very good things indeed whether armed openly or concealed or even if unarmed!!! I also think, again just my opinion, a person openly carrying a gun doesn't look as much like a possible victim as opposed to someone who is unarmed, or appears unarmed because they are carrying concealed.. whether they appear alert or not.
I strongly believe that I, with my openly carried sidearm, look less appealing to a bad guy as I get out of my car after parking in a handicapped spot (legally!!) than the other old fart next to me who isn't wearing a gun in plain sight. I suspect a bad guy faced with a choice of attacking me or the other old fart will pick the other old fart because he isn't wearing a gun.
And yet a lot (I would say if not most) are relying upon what they believe is the deterrent factor of the "element of surprise". It appears from the posts here that most people who subscribe to the "element of surprise" theory expect that the bad guy will be so overcome with "surprise" at the mere sight of the gun that they will run away and the victim will more than likely not even have to shoot.
I say if the criminal is going to run at the mere sight of a gun, than why would they pick the one guy out of 1,000 who they can see has a gun to attack? And, if the criminal is the type that is going to pick that one guy with the visible gun out of 1,000, then the person relying upon the "element of surprise" is in for a shock - because that same kind of criminal is not going to run when the victim yells, "surprise!" and reaches for a gun. That type of criminal is only going to increase their attack if they detect the victim is reaching for a gun. At least if a criminal attacks me anyway, if they see my gun first, I know what kind of criminal is attacking me and I am not led down the false hope path that some sort of "surprise" is going to scare them off.
I think that is the one of the biggest dangers of relying upon the "element of surprise." I wonder how many people are really prepared for when they reach for the gun and yell, "Surprise!" and the criminal punches them in the nose instead of running away.
Nightmare45
NRA LIFE MEMBER
OC AZ all the time no problem, CC Texas because Texas has become a state of winners.
BC1
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I think those who rely on the element of surprise have missed the key point of awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation, etc. I believe those practices help keep me out of the fray to begin with. The real issue is when you're attacked. The CC'er will be slower getting it into play and that itself can be problematic. Thus he gets his head cracked open before anyone knows he has a gun. But I have concern for that element in society hat would put the gun to their own head and dare someone to shoot them. Some of these rats are very disturbed people. Fetal alcohol syndrome, poor frontal lobe development (impulse control) and being raised by animals tends to make them very bad. I read a lot of the OC threads and sometimes comment, but I'm starting to see where this is getting more and more support in state laws. And since their isn't any increase in violent crime by making OC legal perhaps I must give it more support.
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OMG! What did I just say! Am I a becoming an OC convert?
Next thing I'll be looking to move to another state!But then you would have to give up all those freedoms in New York State that you keep telling us that you have! :tongue:
Link Removed
Misspelling whiners like you did...
unintentionalracist
Banned
I just literally returned from Walmart a few hours ago and a group of people there felt the need to trash me and call me names because I successfully stood down the police on Monday after being harassed for lawfully openly carrying my rifle and shotgun home after deer hunting. Seems that I've caused a commotion. Had to walk, but then again I am a taxpayer and law abiding citizen and I have a right to be there. I was offered a ride (by a friend) and a "ride" (by the deputy...guess what she meant by that) and refused for the very reason you stated. Funniest thing about it all was that she was so busy pursuing her own personal agenda that she forgot to ask me if I was carrying any other weapons, which I always always always am lol I'm generally an open carry guy too, just more comfortable to me, but there were flurries and I didn't feel like wiping down and oiling 4 guns when I got home. 2 is enough after a walk like that.
