Open carry confrontation at a Rest Stop

[apvbguy]

If in doubt just check the statistics provided by the state. They're relatively easy to find. Example... Orange county, population 370,000; CCW permits - 39,000.

one rural county of 390k people is hardly reflective of the entire state population of almost 20 million people, which would be about 1.6 MILLION people. I don't think so
you made the assertion now either back it up or remain a blowhard

 

[BC1]

Where is Orange county?

40 miles North of NYC.

 

[BC1]

one rural county is hardly reflective of the entire state. you made the assertion now either back it up or remain a blowhard

Sorry, do your own homework. I stand by the numbers. If you can refute them go ahead. The work is yours to do, not mine. There's no $$ in it. Blowhard? What a moron, you don't even know me. Those who can make an argument do, those who can't resort to name calling and insults. Just put me on "ignore."

 

[Golden Eagle]

Sorry, do your own homework. I stand by the numbers. If you can refute them go ahead. The work is yours to do, not mine. There's no $$ in it. Blowhard? What a moron, you don't even know me. Those who can make an argument do, those who can't resort to name calling and insults. Just put me on "ignore."

In what world does this happen, you make a claim and we need to prove it? I know you well enough from your rude posts but ignore doesn't always work when others keep quoting you. USA Carry will be a much better place once your banned!

 

[unintentionalracist]

In what world does this happen, you make a claim and we need to prove it? I know you well enough from your rude posts but ignore doesn't always work when others keep quoting you. USA Carry will be a much better place once your banned!

Why would he get banned? He's remained respectful.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[Bikenut]

Sorry, do your own homework. I stand by the numbers. If you can refute them go ahead. The work is yours to do, not mine. There's no $$ in it. Blowhard? What a moron, you don't even know me. Those who can make an argument do, those who can't resort to name calling and insults. Just put me on "ignore."

Sorry BC1... that isn't the way it works. If you said it and someone challenged what you said the responsibility to do the homework to prove the veracity of what YOU said is on.......... you.

And any attempts to deflect, redirect, avoid, or evade, or shift that responsibility onto the one who dared question you.... puts YOUR credibility in question.

Oddly enough you took umbrage with name calling and then indulged in the exact same thing.

 

[Golden Eagle]

Back on topic. Here is some proof open carry is allowed on (and in) state property:

This is in the Michigan State Capitol. :yes4:

 

[apvbguy]

Sorry, do your own homework. I stand by the numbers. If you can refute them go ahead. The work is yours to do, not mine. There's no $$ in it. Blowhard? What a moron, you don't even know me. Those who can make an argument do, those who can't resort to name calling and insults. Just put me on "ignore."

it's more enjoyable highlighting your BS. and yourself prove beyond a shadow of any doubt how big of an ill informed blow hard you are.

 

[BC1]

Sorry BC1... that isn't the way it works. If you said it and someone challenged what you said the responsibility to do the homework to prove the veracity of what YOU said is on.......... you.

And any attempts to deflect, redirect, avoid, or evade, or shift that responsibility onto the one who dared question you.... puts YOUR credibility in question.

Oddly enough you took umbrage with name calling and then indulged in the exact same thing.

No, sorry. I made a statement I knew to be true. I might have eventually had time to get the data but he became insulting. He took a shot. He wasn't interested in the truth, he was interested in a fight. He was interested in the myth that people in NYS aren't gun friendly. So he doesn't get anything. And I indulged in the exact same thing because in the PP world is slap is met with a slap. But I'm more than happy to give you the data.
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As far as my credibility... the exact number for NYS is 1,211,030 permits as of 12/31/2010. The data can be downloaded at https://sites.google.com/site/whospackingnyisback/ by clicking on the master zip file. It is the name and address of every pistol permit owner in NYS. Scroll down to the end of the file to obtain the number of persons. There are two files... add the two totals to get the aggregate. According to the U.S. census the population in upstate NY is 11,000,000. That's one permit for every nine persons as of 2010. The numbers have jumped quite a bit since 2010 but I'm using the 2010 data. As the gun debate heated up NY permits have backlogged due to overwhelming number of new applicants so there's been another jump but I don't know how much. If you provide me an email address I will forward the complete listing of permit holders in MS-Excel format.
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Now the other poster called me out. I said 1 in 8. In 2010, according to this data, it was 1 in 9. So he can hang me for the error, but that was 2010. When we add police carrying on their badge and the increase since 2010 it's about 1 in 8. He shouldn't become belligerent just because someone doesn't provide citations. He could just say without a citation he wouldn't accept the statement. But name calling? Would he act this way with his boss? I doubt it. Tough crowd.

 

[Elenor]

I call BS. NY accent? Give me a break. You know those damn people in NY... they all talk the same, act the same and espouse the same views. That's why 1 out of every 8 people in NYS has a CCW permit. What?

There's a HUGE difference between people in NYS (the state), and "NYers." I grew up on Long Island (so I KNOW my NY accents!) -- my high school actually had (probably still has, but I'm sure it's locked up, if not filled with cement and horror!) a rifle range under the science building! And a rifle team that competed around the state. However, nowadays, "defending" NYS as not being anti-gun probably can't fly. (I went to uni in upstate NY -- where people are somewhat more "normal"... and I don't fault upstaters for not being able to overrule the pathology that is NY City and its environs. (Same down here in Georgia -- where, alas, lots and lots of Northerners have come down to 'change' things...) It's not just people flying into JFK who have to prepare doubly and triply to prevent being harassed and arrested if their flight OUT gets cancelled!

 

[BC1]

it's more enjoyable highlighting your BS. and yourself prove beyond a shadow of any doubt how big of an ill informed blow hard you are.

What a comedian.
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The stats were for the state, not NYC. That's 11 million not 19 million. Different laws and different permits.
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Read the response to Bikenut above. Open the file in the link and look at the totals. I didn't just give you the numbers, I gave you the entire list of permit holders. Now, I want you to respond as to what you find. And stop calling people names. It's unnecessary and detracts from your point.

 

[BC1]

In what world does this happen, you make a claim and we need to prove it? I know you well enough from your rude posts but ignore doesn't always work when others keep quoting you. USA Carry will be a much better place once your banned!

With over 4,800 likes I'm not getting banned for anything you've read.

 

[Bikenut]

No, sorry. I made a statement I knew to be true. I might have eventually had time to get the data but he became insulting. He took a shot. He wasn't interested in the truth, he was interested in a fight. He was interested in the myth that people in NYS aren't gun friendly. So he doesn't get anything. And I indulged in the exact same thing because in the PP world is slap is met with a slap. But I'm more than happy to give you the data.
.
As far as my credibility... the exact number for NYS is 1,211,030 permits as of 12/31/2010. The data can be downloaded at https://sites.google.com/site/whospackingnyisback/ by clicking on the master zip file. It is the name and address of every pistol permit owner in NYS. Scroll down to the end of the file to obtain the number of persons. There are two files... add the two totals to get the aggregate. According to the U.S. census the population in upstate NY is 11,000,000. That's one permit for every nine persons as of 2010. The numbers have jumped quite a bit since 2010 but I'm using the 2010 data. As the gun debate heated up NY permits have backlogged due to overwhelming number of new applicants so there's been another jump but I don't know how much. If you provide me an email address I will forward the complete listing of permit holders in MS-Excel format.
.
Now the other poster called me out. I said 1 in 8. In 2010, according to this data, it was 1 in 9. So he can hang me for the error, but that was 2010. When we add police carrying on their badge and the increase since 2010 it's about 1 in 8. He shouldn't become belligerent just because someone doesn't provide citations. He could just say without a citation he wouldn't accept the statement. But name calling? Would he act this way with his boss? I doubt it. Tough crowd.

Thank you BC1... I not only appreciate now having the information I also appreciate having a source that I can refer to if I ever need to use that information during a future discussion... whether online or not.

Just from a quick visit to the website you linked I find it interesting that the largest number of folks with carry permits are close to the Canadian border....

 

[BC1]

Thank you BC1... I not only appreciate now having the information I also appreciate having a source that I can refer to if I ever need to use that information during a future discussion... whether online or not.

Just from a quick visit to the website you linked I find it interesting that the largest number of folks with carry permits are close to the Canadian border....

I believe that is correct. A lot in the far northern part of the state. A few areas up there are anti-gun, like the Buffalo area, which I never understood. Orange, Dutchess and Putnam Counties (southern NY) seem to have numbers on par with the overall upstate stats.
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I found my name on that list. NY now has a form to exclude someone from the aggregate data.

 

[apvbguy]

Thank you BC1... I not only appreciate now having the information I also appreciate having a source that I can refer to if I ever need to use that information during a future discussion... whether online or not.

Just from a quick visit to the website you linked I find it interesting that the largest number of folks with carry permits are close to the Canadian border....

there is one big flaw in his statement, the population of NYS is closer to 20 million, he can't arbitrarily ignore 40% of the states population because it doesn't make his statements look factual.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

40 miles North of NYC.

Thanks

 

[Bikenut]

I believe that is correct. A lot in the far northern part of the state. A few areas up there are anti-gun, like the Buffalo area, which I never understood. Orange, Dutchess and Putnam Counties (southern NY) seem to have numbers on par with the overall upstate stats.
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I found my name on that list. NY now has a form to exclude someone from the aggregate data.

There should never be any "list" or "record" of who carries guns/has guns. I personally find the very idea of invading a person's privacy first by keeping a record of who has/carries guns and, even more egregious, making their names and addresses available to the general public.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

Back on topic. Here is some proof open carry is allowed on (and in) state property:

This is in the Michigan State Capitol. :yes4:

To be fair I could show a photo of someone robbing a bank and say it's proof that bank robbery is legal. We don't know that the state police didn't takle him right after this photo was taken

 

[Johnny Dollar]

With over 4,800 likes I'm not getting banned for anything you've read.

Make it 4801

 

[Bikenut]

Back on topic. Here is some proof open carry is allowed on (and in) state property:

This is in the Michigan State Capitol. :yes4:

To be fair I could show a photo of someone robbing a bank and say it's proof that bank robbery is legal. We don't know that the state police didn't takle him right after this photo was taken

Ok... let's be "fair"....

Bring your guns, leave your signs: Michigan Capitol rules in spotlight at Second Amendment rally | MLive.com

Bring your guns, leave your signs: Michigan Capitol rules in spotlight at Second Amendment rally

LANSING, MI -- Second Amendment advocates exercised their legal right to carry pistols and rifles into the Michigan Capitol on Wednesday, but they had to leave their signs -- and some might argue, their First Amendment rights -- at the door.

Michigan Capitol Committee rules prohibit hand-carried and hand-stick signs in the 135-year-old building due to concerns that they could accidentally scratch the decorative paint or be dropped from upper floors onto unsuspecting tourists on the rotunda floor below.

Michigan State Police who work at the building regularly enforce the sign rule, but there is no rule or law preventing gun owners from carrying their weapons into the Capitol.

"It's always been on the books -- even before the last constitutional convention -- the right to open carry in Michigan," said Sgt. Jeffrey Held of the Michigan State Police. "Nobody's ever changed it."
-snip-

Ummm... just to be "fair".... didn't you say the following in post #24 in the following discussion right here on USACarry?

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general-firearm-discussion/41552-ok-here-s-my-idea.html

-snip-
I believe in the 2A in principle but believe it is obsolete in that its assumption that familiarity and competency with firearms was natural to the citizenry no longer applies to modern American society. It's not a lot to ask for someone to demonstrate evidence of basic training, including safety, marksmanship, and knowledge of relevant law. I would indeed make it a privilege in effect but would provide real guards against abuse of regulatory discretion. The law should be very specific about conditions of licensing. Vague grants of regulatory discretion ignore the realities of governmental history.

Bold and underline added by me for emphasis only.
Perhaps that perspective had something to do with your comment about the photo?

Dang... it took me a while to get my 'puter to put in everything....