Armed Teachers

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North Carolina public-school employee Michelle Fish can't take a gun to school. But that didn't stop the 42-year-old elementary school librarian from recently participating in a daylong seminar on how to handle and carry a gun.

Fish was one of a dozen or so educators in the Tar Heel State who attended the free firearms training course at Triangle Krav Maga combat center in Cary, just west of the capital, Raleigh.

"I'm still debating whether I want to even have a gun of my own," Fish tells AOL Jobs. "But I wanted to be well informed if I decide to do that." (Fish asked to be identified by her maiden name to protect her privacy.)

North Carolina law bans bringing firearms, concealed or carried openly, to any public or private school or school-sponsored event, though since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings in Newtown, Conn., last month, some advocates have argued that teachers should be armed.

Fish, who is married and has a young son, says that she's also considering other forms of personal protection such as pepper spray or a taser gun. Her concern is driven by the Sandy Hook shootings, in which 20 first graders and six adults died, as well as the killing spree at a Aurora, Colo., movie theater last July in which 12 people died. Closer to home, Fish says, several break-ins at homes in the county in which she lives have also left her feeling more vulnerable.

More: Guns-To-Work Laws Proliferate, Despite Mass Shootings, Employer Opposition

"Criminals are endangering good citizens' lives, and I just wanted to be well-informed [of the laws] and how to protect me and my family," says Fish of her decision to take the firearms training.

Triangle Krav Maga is among several groups nationwide that has held or plans to offer such training to school employees following the Sandy Hook shootings. Courses offered by the organizations, which mainly include gun-rights groups, have reported overwhelming response to the offerings.

In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Association reports that it has received more than 1,000 requests for the classes it's planning to offer in the spring, which the group describes as "advanced training dealing with active killer scenarios."

A majority -- 70 percent -- of those who have so far signed up are teachers, 14 percent are administrators and the balance is comprised of staff and other school employees, the association says. About 85 percent of the applicants are public-school employees and half work in high schools. A start date for the courses has yet to be set.

Fish, who has never used a gun before, said that she felt "so scared" on the evening before the firearms course, uncertain whether it was the right choice. But, she added, "I feel like how you battle fear is with information.
 
Texas allows teachers, school staff and anyone else with a CHL to carry on campus with the written consent of the sdministration (principal, school board president, president of the board of regents etc.) I have carried on elementary campuses in the past. Today one school district Harrold ISD northwest of Ft.Worth near the Red River allows teachers & staff with CHLs to carry at school with adititional training. The school board will not make public the names of those staff members who carry. God help anyone who tries to harm their kids.
 
BTW, Texas legislators are introducing changes to campus carry prohibitions. One Rep. will introduce a bill to place school marshals (similar to sky marshals) in every school in Texas. However I'm not sure that one will pass as many school districts have their own police departments. Another proposed bill would allow anyone with a CHL to carry on campus w/o consent of administrators, many of whom are flaming liberals and anti gun as they come.
 
Whether any teachers ever actually carry or not, when it's known that they can, the murderous SOBs will think more than twice about invading a school.

They don't go looking for places they might get shot, they look for places that have defenseless victim pools.

Similar legislation is under debate in my state, it's passed the first of five hurdles. I hope to see it go all the way.
 
Just what I need...........Place my son in a room with an incompetent twit with a gun..........eyes roll.

Incompetent twits with guns are everywhere... but I think anyone with a CCW should be able to carry on school grounds just like any other public place. If any public place requires us to disarm then there should be permanent, armed security instead. I wouldn't just make it a blanket 'teachers can carry', make them get the ccw, or, make them take additional training much like pilots who carry in commercial airliners, and impose STRICT penalties if they do something stupid like leave their gun out where kids can access it.
 
Under current MI law, ANYBODY holding a CPL can OC in a pfz and there is nothing they can do about it. That includes public schools. So teachers in Michigan can OC in school. I'm trying to convince my wife to get her CPL and then begin carrying in her school.
 
As I stated above only those staff members with a concealed handgun license may carry with the written consent of the administration. In the Harrold ISD licensed teachers and staff must go through additional training and are allowed to use only frangible ammunition. There are teachers who should not be allowed to carry a gun at all and that is why the school districts that allow it put them through additional physcological testing as well as firearms training. As of right now there are about 4 school districts in the state of Texas that allow teachers & staff to be armed. More are signing on weekly. There are many school districts that have their own police departments. Many also have armed guards while others contract with their local PD or SO to have full time officers assigned to their schools. Some small rural school districts simply cannot afford the expense of paying full time police officers. I would rather see my child or grandchild protected by an armed teacher than not at all.

I also think schools should post signs by every entrance that reads "WARNING! The staff in this school are armed and any attempt to harm the students here will be met with deadly force."
 
Just what I need...........Place my son in a room with an incompetent twit with a gun..........eyes roll.

Certainly a comment that should be made. In addition I would add:
1. Are my tax monies now going for the time and the training for a teacher, a principal, an administrator etal? I would want my money staying where it belongs--teaching children and providing them the resources for their education.
2. If the police are called, they enter the area not knowing all these teachers, principals and administrators who now have firearms. As far as the police are concerned any of these people they initially meet up with could just as easily be the shooter--are they going to hesitate and ask for IDs when all hell is breaking loose in a school? More chaos and tragedy can result.
The real answer is 100% certainty on the security at the school. No shortcuts on back doors left open because teachers do not want to walk around to the front of a school and other lapses in security. Lockdown and emergency procedures must be airtight and understood by all, as explained by their law enforcement officials. My understanding at Sandy Hook was that the teacher in the unfortunate class was a substitute and the room was not locked down and secure. Sure the shooter had a firearm and defeated doors and windows but that can be addressed--guns in the hands of the teachers is very questionable and problematic as far as I am concerned.
 
Just what I need...........Place my son in a room with an incompetent twit with a gun..........eyes roll.

You're right.... send your kid to school with a bunch of defenseless sheep so he and all his classmates can get shot like those in numerous schools throughout time. Wow, what a dumb comment. :rolleyes:

My only question for you.... why do you send your son to a school where you think the teacher is an incompetent twit? Who is the real twit in that situation?
 
Certainly a comment that should be made. In addition I would add:
If the police are called, they enter the area not knowing all these teachers, principals and administrators who now have firearms. As far as the police are concerned any of these people they initially meet up with could just as easily be the shooter--are they going to hesitate and ask for IDs when all hell is breaking loose in a school? More chaos and tragedy can result.
The real answer is 100% certainty on the security at the school. No shortcuts on back doors left open because teachers do not want to walk around to the front of a school and other lapses in security. Lockdown and emergency procedures must be airtight and understood by all, as explained by their law enforcement officials. My understanding at Sandy Hook was that the teacher in the unfortunate class was a substitute and the room was not locked down and secure. Sure the shooter had a firearm and defeated doors and windows but that can be addressed--guns in the hands of the teachers is very questionable and problematic as far as I am concerned.

It took 20 minutes for police to respond to Sandy Hook. Plenty of chaos and tragedy ensued in that time. If a CC in a school hasn't engaged a threat by then, most likely no one is carrying anyway

Besides shouldn't the police identify if the threat is a threat before spraying bullets in their direction? Is the person with a gun randomly shooting at people? Do they appear to be shielding students or shouting out commands to evacuate/hide? Do they look like they belong there? Are they carrying a long gun, or something that would be an EDC concealed? Are they wearing vests with multiple magazines? Do they respond to your commands?

These people are looking for easy targets, which is why they go for "gun free" zones. These are failures at life, looking to make their mark via a body count. Take away their success probability, you take away their motivation. They fear failure more than life itself. And while an armed officer might be somewhat of a deterrent, an unknown number of CCers is even more so. Victim-free zones are a deterrent. Stopping it before it starts is the most important thing.
 
Victim-free zones are a deterrent. Stopping it before it starts is the most important thing.[/QUOTE]

WELL said. Lets arm the staff, CC, that way no one knows who will return fire.

"Not building Rockets here people"

Right. They don't know if there's going to be 0, 10, or 20 people prepared, nor who those people will be. Who's packing? Mrs. Magilicutty, the janitor, the principle? No uniform to give a clue. Could be anyone and everyone. No longer is the school a target rich environment.

And, I'm not sure why someone questioned their taxes were to be used to pay for licensing teachers administrators, etc. No one is even suggesting making it a requirement for teachers. It's to allow those that wish to, to legally do so. I'm sick of people acting as if we want to shove guns into unwilling hands.

But for the sake of argument, let's say the schools offered to pay for it (thus eventually coming out of our taxes). Since we're talking schools, let's do some math.

Let's say, the average police officer posted at one school costs the city an average of $75k/yr including salary, medical benefits, retirement benefits, training etc. Just a guess, but you'll see we don't need to be too dead on to make a point. Now let's go with a rough cost of $150/person/4 years to get a license. So, for the cost of one officer over 4 years, we could train 2000 people. If 10 people/school wanted to get a license, 200 schools would have armed staff.

Oh, and one city wanted to buy each officer a $28k SUV for each one (not making that up, it was in the news). So add that cost in there. If the car is sold after 4 years for say $8k, that's $20k in depreciation...another 133 licenses. So we have a total of 2113 people trained for the cost of one officer.

So we've reduced the attractiveness of targeting schools at a fraction of the cost. And as said before, the most important thing is deterring.

If it happens anyway... Would one of the adults at Sandy, that died, have been armed and stopped the threat... we'll never know. But we do know that they did try to stop him while unarmed when lives were on the line. So they at least would have tried if they were armed.
 
My local gun and hunt club is asking any teacher or administrator who wants to receive their concealed weapons permit, will put them through the entire courses free of charge to allow them to obtain their CWP.
 
It took 20 minutes for police to respond to Sandy Hook. Plenty of chaos and tragedy ensued in that time. If a CC in a school hasn't engaged a threat by then, most likely no one is carrying anyway

Besides shouldn't the police identify if the threat is a threat before spraying bullets in their direction? Is the person with a gun randomly shooting at people? Do they appear to be shielding students or shouting out commands to evacuate/hide? Do they look like they belong there? Are they carrying a long gun, or something that would be an EDC concealed? Are they wearing vests with multiple magazines? Do they respond to your commands?

These people are looking for easy targets, which is why they go for "gun free" zones. These are failures at life, looking to make their mark via a body count. Take away their success probability, you take away their motivation. They fear failure more than life itself. And while an armed officer might be somewhat of a deterrent, an unknown number of CCers is even more so. Victim-free zones are a deterrent. Stopping it before it starts is the most important thing.

Very well said.
 
Certainly a comment that should be made. In addition I would add:
1. Are my tax monies now going for the time and the training for a teacher, a principal, an administrator etal? I would want my money staying where it belongs--teaching children and providing them the resources for their education.
2. If the police are called, they enter the area not knowing all these teachers, principals and administrators who now have firearms. As far as the police are concerned any of these people they initially meet up with could just as easily be the shooter--are they going to hesitate and ask for IDs when all hell is breaking loose in a school? More chaos and tragedy can result.
The real answer is 100% certainty on the security at the school. No shortcuts on back doors left open because teachers do not want to walk around to the front of a school and other lapses in security. Lockdown and emergency procedures must be airtight and understood by all, as explained by their law enforcement officials. My understanding at Sandy Hook was that the teacher in the unfortunate class was a substitute and the room was not locked down and secure. Sure the shooter had a firearm and defeated doors and windows but that can be addressed--guns in the hands of the teachers is very questionable and problematic as far as I am concerned.
1. There are instructors that are volunteering their services for free,I know some teachers that carry off school and believe me they are not "twits". I don't believe you can judge them without knowing them,I have kids in their school and believe me,I would feel safe with them carrying. Not every teacher should carry, they should have to pass a stringent shooting test and be anonymous to everyone but the administrator.
2. Couldn't the same be said for each situation that we all carry in?

Bottom line ,we live in a rural area here and I believe the police are very capable ,but in a shooting time is of the essence. God forbid, if my kids were ever in this situation I wouldn't want them to have to wait 20 minutes or even 2 minutes for someone to defend them.
 
It is good to see that many Krav Maga training centers are involved with the training of firearms too. The one I was a member of in the Milwaukee area does also. It is my belief that it should be manditory for teachers to have self defense training. I'm not here trying to discuss all of the details because for instance, teachers with disabilities would need to be accomidated differently but could still undergo self defense training. I know how to handle myself to protect myself and my family. I send my children to school where I trust other people with the welfare of my child. Why not get the teachers and administrators in a school to have similar training as I have? Seems logical to me.
 
Teachers, in all states, that are deemed fit to have CWPs should be allowed to carry concealed in schools. My $.02

I know here in S.Carolina, there is a bill on the floor to allow just this, but it has a very bad loophole. It will allow school boards the option of refusing to allow CWP holders to carry on school grounds. Given liberal have taken over in public school positions, both elected & hired, I bet most school boards will say no, even in a red state like S.Carolina.
 

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