WTF is going on???school shooting.

[rmw66]

Doesn't Utah allow teachers to carry now ? Shouldn't there be some there be some accountability on the school/ governments part? This has happened before and unfortunately probably will happen again .
Unfortunately our govt and some of us continue to blame a tool .

If this happened in the past "and we all know it has" it would have been a knife , sword , spear etc . In the future it would be whatever the hand held
weapon on choice will be then . This is a people problem we need to find a way to prevent access and if that fails at least give the good people a chance of defending themselves .
I honestly don't see why more people do not see gun free zones = criminal empowerment zones

 

[BurgerBoy]

Look at Israeli schools. That's what we need here. Does this teacher look like a nut that would harm the kids in her class? Or does she look like she would try to protect them?

 

[gejoslin]

This isn't perfect but has some good points from M. Ayood;

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  The atrocity at the Connecticut elementary school will not be the last such horror, nor was it the first or even the worst. Go back to the year 1764, in what is now Franklin County, Pennsylvania. The first: during Pontiac’s Rebellion in the wake of the French and Indian War, four “warriors” entered a schoolhouse and slaughtered the headmaster and some ten children. Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . The worst: in 1927, a crazed monster beat his wife to death, then triggered a bombing in an elementary school in Bath, Michigan, killing some 38 kids and several adults.Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
  I’ll repeat what I said in the Wall Street Journal op-ed section and on the Today show in 1999, after the Columbine High School atrocity: if we simply prepared teachers to handle this type of crisis the way we teach them to handle fires and medical emergencies, the death toll would drop dramatically. We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route. In the past, if someone “dropped dead,” people would cry and wring their hands and wail, “When will the ambulance get here?” Today, almost every responsible adult knows CPR; most schools have easily-operated Automatic Electronic Defibrillators readily accessible; and a heart attack victim’s chance of surviving until the paramedics arrive to take over is now far greater.
  The same principle works for defending against mass murders…it just doesn’t work HERE, because it is politically incorrect to employ it HERE. After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.
  Some people see the logic in the Israeli approach. Dave Workman does, as seen here: Link Removed . Ann Coulter does, as seen here:Newtown School Shootings: Ann Coulter Makes a Case for Concealed-Carry Laws | The Wrap Media .
  Unfortunately, in this country, logic has been buried under political correctness. Those in power whose ego is invested in brie et Chablis values that include scorn for the peasantry they accuse of “clinging to guns and Bibles” will never see that logic. Children will continue to die in gun-free zones hunting preserves for psychopathic murderers, and the cowardly murderers will continue to surrender or kill themselves as soon as armed good guys show up…far too late.
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  [TD]Massad Ayood
  
  I think this might work?
  What are your thoughts?[/TD]
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[r1derbike]

Another atrocity that could have been averted if a vigilant officer had been there, as they are in state and federal buildings. Maybe now, this will happen.

What is happening now; every liberal/conservative political anti-gun group/individual is calling for banning of anything they may think of that fires a projectile, that they don't like.

Trying to reason with unreasonable people is fruitless here, as their emotions have clouded their judgement, in this wake of violence.

It doesn't matter that Americans have had to arm themselves because of lunatic criminals with guns. It doesn't matter that many have saved their own lives with guns, effectively neutralizing rapists, robbers, murderers, carjackers and sexual predators. None of this matters to them. Right now, all they care about is disarming the entire world, effectively leaving us defenseless against the criminals, who will still be armed to the teeth.

I had a dream last night. I opened the door (something I rarely do, unless I am carrying), and was confronted by an armed robber, and all I had to defend my life with was my spittle and my fists, because of what our government did to disarm us. I woke-up at the first shot, shaking, and gasping, and after I settled-down was disgusted at my subconscious mind for putting me in that dream state scenario.

Then, I thought, what if this really could happen? What if? I hope I may continue to be able to defend myself, family, and belongings, at this point.

I am praying that this senseless, murderous maniac, who took beautiful, innocent lives will not be the tool for the disarmament of innocent society, leaving us as helpless and vulnerable as what my dream envisioned.

It scared the hell out of me...I don't mind being called reactionary or whatever at this point, but that dream scared the living crap out me, no matter how far-fetched.

 

[BC1]

I agree, but would you want to pay the extra surcharge or tax's to have 8 or 10 school resorce officers in the school? and even at that it no garrenty somebody would not get something in, its very clear gun laws are not the answer, if a individual wants to harm others they will, and use whatever meens possable, I have several friends that are LEOs and I was speaking to one last night and the suggestion was brought up about the deputys doing the schools instead of side jobs, and he said the school system don't want to pay nothing, not even what janitors get, and besides that, he honestly wasn't sure if he would rather patrol the school or bust hookers and drug dealers, as they were both dangerous, I had to agree

I would rather pay the cost of having armed trained officers or private security in every school. NYC schools have such guards in them. It is the largest public school system in America. There are roughly 1,700 schools with more than 7,000 officers patrolling them. There are 1.1 million students and over 80,000 teachers. Yet an active shooter incident inside a NYC school is extremely rare. VA Tech incidents, Columbine or Newtown incidents have never happened, quite an acheivement for a school district of such magnitude. I believe the strong security is the key becuse there is no shortage of guns amongst those kids. School Safety Agents are designated as New York City Special Patrolman, which gives them the status of a New York State police officer on duty only. They are empowered to make warrantless arrests, carry and use handcuffs, and use physical and deadly force. No oficer has ever been killed in the line of duty.

 

[dogshawred]

Can we afford to not change?

The cheapening of life in today's society, in my opinion, has a lot to do with what's going on. Abortion is just a medical decision, has nothing to do with taking a life. Too old or too frail to be productive. Wouldn't want to be a drain on society. See a doctor take a pill, problem solved. No personal responsibility, everything and every decision you make is because of what someone else did to you and/or what they might do to you. Any tool can be used to commit a crime but the criminal is some how rarely at fault.

First and formost my prayers go out to the victims families for this terrible lost of live and to all the first responders who will live with those visions for the rest of their lives. Such a herendous act should never occur in a country such as ours. But we have allowed this to become acceptable in our lives through the actions of our past.
The publics need to extend to the guilty more rights than the victims has allowed BGs the ability to sit in prison for decades before being put to death as ordered by a jury of his peers. The criminial justice system has let the American public down, it is no longer a deterent to anyone that is thinking about committing a crime. Get a slap on the wrist and on they go to commit more and more crimes. How many times do you hear about criminials arrested for the same or similiar crimes previously committed.
We as the public must demand that punishment befit the crime committed and that punishment be carried out swiftly and effiecently. Older societies were more efficient at punishing their criminial offenders than we are today. This alone tells me that we have become soft as a people and this has to change or this will continue in all aspects of our lives.
I know that this going to call for less civil liberties, but look at where more civil liberties has gotten us today.

 

[walt629]

Didn't read all the posts on this one but the common factor in most of the discussions I have read are either for or against arming teachers (or at least allowing teachers to carry weapons in the school).

I can understand the sentiment. But I think the calls for arming the teachers is as much of a knee jerk reaction as the calls for more gun restrictions.

Should teachers be "permitted" to carry weapons in school? My answer is yes they should, just as anyone should not have their rights infringed dependent on a particular geographic location.

I think the question to ask regarding the teachers is, do we as parents, feel it is the responsibility of the teacher to protect our children AND once we as parents give up the safety and security of our children, are the teachers willing to accept the added responsibility?

Everyone is saying "Arm the teacher!" but what do the teachers have to say about it? I'm sure there are a few teachers that would be wiling to carry their guns to their workplace, but how do they feel about laying their lives on the line for a bunch of snotty little bastards?

And from my personal stand point the decision as to what needs to be done to safeguard the children is between the parents and the teachers. Those of us on the sideline can have all the philosophical discussions we want, but when the decisions come it needs to heavily involve them and not us old farts that don't have kids in school anymore.

Has anyone thought about hardening the school BUILDING instead of the personnel?

 

[r1derbike]

Walt, teachers will not be allowed to carry because liability insurance costs would be astronomical. Parents of students would never accept this. Hardening existing structures would also be cost prohibitive, and a resourceful maniac could still get in. Armed tactical officers would be the only cost effective option, and will surely be implemented. Schools are already dangerous places without murderers trying to get in, and officers are already in those problem schools.

I'm all for LEO protection in our schools, and this will surely come about. If local LEOs aren't willing to do it because of low pay and danger, there are certainly security firms who would likely step-in, to takeup the slack.

 

[mmckee1952]

There was a theory on the news this morning saying that they think the school shooter’s mother was in the process of having her son committed for his mental problems and he snapped and then went on his rampage killing her then going to her school and shooting everyone he thought were complicit in his problems.

 

[Ringo]

2000 Children Are Murdered In The United States Every Single Day

More Than 2000 Children Are Murdered In The United States Every Single Day

 

[Stan45]

Walt, teachers will not be allowed to carry because liability insurance costs would be astronomical. Parents of students would never accept this. Hardening existing structures would also be cost prohibitive.

Will you change your mind if we start having one of these attackes on our schools every week or several a week?

 

[gejoslin]

Before Connecticut tragedy, administration eliminated emergency preparedness program,

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse | WashingtonGuardian
This is part of the problem;

Before Connecticut tragedy, administration eliminated emergency preparedness program,let school violence prevention programs lapse


UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.
Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.
Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.
A nationally recognized school security expert said those funds had been critical for years in helping schools continue to enhance protections against growing threats of violence. But they simply dried up with little notice as the Columbine and Virginia Tech school shooting tragedies faded from memory and many Americans and political leaders had their attentions diverted to elections, a weak economy and overseas dramas.
"I was baffled to see funds and programs cut in these areas,” said Kenneth Trump, the president of the National School Safety and Security Services firm that helps school districts and policymakers improve protections for teachers and students. “Our political and policy leaders need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk about being concerned about school safety.
Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse | WashingtonGuardian

 

[rmw66]

I guess the new school lunch program was more important . It's sad but just like local governments they cut the things that are really important like police ,fire and sanitation "things govt should be taking care of" to fund things they should have nothing to do with

 

[Sir Diealotz]

I guess the new school lunch program was more important . It's sad but just like local governments they cut the things that are really important like police ,fire and sanitation "things govt should be taking care of" to fund things they should have nothing to do with

Your tax dollars at work

 

[Stan45]

Maybe more people should start looing at home schooling.

 

[kerb]

That goes back to the fundamental problem of farming personal security out to somebody else: Who is the only person that is with you 100% of the time? You. You want security, provide it yourself. You can't have a school police force everywhere.

I agree. It needs to be the adults that are there, with the kids, every moment of every day.

At school, that's the teachers.



Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[kerb]

Maybe more people should start looing at home schooling.

Stan.. Not everyone has the skill to be a teacher. It's more than knowing the subject matter. It's being able to teach. Two different things. Although I must say that if public school was my only option, we might be home schooling.


Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ringo]

This past Friday's tragic school shooting has like I am sure many of you left me quite stunned. I am so saddened at the wickedness and pure evil that happened to this small community that has affected the entire world. I pray but fear that it is a Sign of the Times and we will witness many more such instances in the coming days. I've included below an "Excellent Article" on this tragedy by Jack Kinsella of the Omega Letter entitled "Desperately Wicked!" , enjoy!

Desperately Wicked!​

There is no real way to process the news that another member of the human race could gun down twenty prepubescent children in cold blood. It isn't something you can understand, even though you comprehend it. At best, we can comprehend it in the abstract -- the details are too painful to absorb without sustaining damage. Even the shooter is a walking tragedy. It is a certainty that the media will follow the usual pattern, beginning with the standard soul-searching questions about what is wrong with America, ( After school shooting, quiet Newtown wonders, 'How can we be protected from people like this?' - U.S. News) carefully constructed to elicit the correct answer, which is that there are too many guns.(Gunman's mother owned weapons used in Connecticut school massacre - U.S. News)


What other answer could they possibly arrive at? Certainly they aren't going to blame the very things that pay their bills, the very culture that the media has worked long and hard to help shape into what it is today. They aren't going to blame a culture that encourages children to inform on their parents. (Doctors Interrogate Children as Informants on Parents' Behavior) Or a culture in which prepubescent students are required to learn about deviant sex but are forbidden by law to learn the Ten Commandments? Instead, the argument will immediately shift away from the liberal worldview that embraces violence and death to finding some way to blame the inanimate objects used by the shooter instead of the culture that created him. The more liberal the worldview, the more predictable the reaction. The full scope of the tragedy had not even yet been realized when New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was at the podium calling for stronger gun control. (Gun-Control Advocates Press Obama to Turn Tears to Action - Bloomberg) Obama's first statement was (predictably) about taking "meaningful action on guns." (Link Removed) And if there were a scintilla of evidence that stronger gun laws would result in less gun violence, I would be the first one to agree. But the more restrictive the gun laws, the more dangerous a place is. The two cities with the most restrictive gun laws in America are Chicago and Washington DC. I rest my case.


But that doesn't stop the liberals from redirecting the blame for crime away from the policies they embrace, even if it means imbuing mystical powers to a manufactured object. It is like advocating the outlawing of cars as a solution for drunk driving while simultaneously extolling the virtues of drinking to excess. Liberals believe that mankind is basically good and that human morality "evolved" for the good of the species. There is absolutely no evidence to support that contention, but liberals only tolerate evidence that supports their cause. "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9) All we can know of it is that it is DESPERATELY wicked, the Bible says. So, which worldview would you say is best supported by the evidence? The cause of gun violence is not the availability of guns, it is the rejection of a moral code that celebrates life and family. The traditional family unit is the basic building block of human civilization. A not-so-subtle brainwashing of an entire generation is an accomplished fact; to rage against the machine is pointless. I am amused by the efforts on the Left, (particularly within the media) to deny that Hollywood movies influence violence or that Hollywood morals influence popular culture. One can draw a straight line from Hollywood violence to random gun violence with a lot less difficulty than one can drawing one from the availability of guns. Guns were around a long time before Hollywood turned them into movie props. At the same time as the family unit collapses and gun control laws turn inner-cities into war zones, political correctness has turned the fear of giving offense into a genuinely risky business. Offending a member of a visible minority can cost you in court. Offend the wrong member of the wrong minority and it could cost you your freedom. It can even cost you your life.

"And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another." (Matthew 24:10)

Note that this prophecy is in three parts. Offense, betrayal and hatred.

"And because iniquity (lawlessness) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." (Matthew 24:12)

We are living in the times of the signs. The events that are transpiring all around us are not happening in a vacuum
"For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:2-5) If that describes our government and media better than it describes our prison population, then soul-searching questions about how somebody could murder 20 beautiful little children have less than nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with living in the times of the signs.

The fact that school shootings are so common that metal detectors and lockdown procedures even exist is one of the signs.

"Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:12-13)

It is beyond my capacity for imagination to even try to understand the agony being felt by the families of the Connecticut tragedy. I pray that somehow the Lord will console them in their grief.

These are the perilous times of which the Apostle spoke. Terrible, tragic, painful times.

"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." (2 Timothy 3:14-15)

And may our God bless and keep and protect us and our loved ones. Until He comes.

Maranatha!

 

[mmckee1952]

Link Removed

Now here's one stupid person, If the teachers were armed 90% of these items would come into effect.

 

[r1derbike]

I cut and pasted this from another forum, and it should be required reading for every man, woman, grown child, politician and everyone with any semblance of compassion and forgiveness. I ran it through snopes.com blender and removed what they determined were added text, to the gist of the message.

===================================

COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER, TO POSSIBLY UP TO 8 JUDICIAL SUBCOMMITTEE MEMBERS:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

- Darrell Scott