Illinois Ban on Concealed Carry is coming to an end!
- Thread starter Dan Cox
- Start date
dmax3500. The Courts are our friends and they will give us CCW. You have to believe in the system and use it as intended. It has worked in Ezel, McDonald, and Heller. This is how we beat back the Socialist minded Progressive Democrats. Call your State Rep. and let your voice be heard.
Rhino
New member
There will always be a need for government to control it's people???? Have you not read our Constitution? You've got that backwards. You don't need training to exercise a right. You don't need training to exercise free speech, but you may need to learn how to do it effectively, and you don't need the government's permission. You don't need training to peaceably assemble, but you may need to learn how to do it effectively, and you don't need the government's permission. You don't need training to exercise your religion, but you may need practice to do it effectively, and yet again, you don't need the government's permission. Being in the military is not a right. It's a government function. McDonalds is a private company. They train you themselves. They don't need governmental permission to do that, nor do you. Many people get along fine without vehicles, so your necessity argument might be debated, but the reason you need government mandated training and licensing is because you're going to be driving on government owned roads. They are granting you that privilege. It isn't a right. If you were exercising your 2nd amendment rights with a government owned firearm, then maybe you could make some sort of comparison here, but that isn't the case. The government doesn't control the people in this country, or at least it it isn't supposed to, and your 2nd amendment rights are not in any way analogous to being in the military, working at McDonalds, or driving a vehicle.
Seeya
New member
Rhino
New member
The source for his text is unreachable but most of those cases are fairly well known. Note that they say "travel", not "driving" or "operating". You are correct that you have the right to travel the public highways as you wish, but that doesn't mean you can operate a vehicle on them without a license.
So? Those are just definitions.
I assume you're referring to the entry on Shapiro v. Thompson, where it says "A citizens (sic) must be free to travel throughout the United States". There's only one problem. Shapiro v. Thompson had nothing to do with travel. It was about benefits for aged and disabled people in Illinois.
Some Muppets episodes.
Sorry. I've seen tons of Supreme Court decisions. Some of the above were Supreme Court decisions. Did you have a point?
Irrelevant.
Seeya
New member
Right to travel link works for me. Defintion in the United States Code is how you determine what is a crime. notice title 18 is the crimminal code. Also I have used all those to beat the State Attorney.
It is clear to me that you do not reshearch enough to understand what is a right and what is being used to take your rights away under color of law. You may be an systems engineer, but you trust your elected servants far to much.
It is clear to me that you do not reshearch enough to understand what is a right and what is being used to take your rights away under color of law. You may be an systems engineer, but you trust your elected servants far to much.
Rhino
New member
You aren't following me. On that page, he cites another link as his source. THAT link doesn't work.
No, a definition is the meaning of a word.
Yes, I'm familiar with it.
Congratulations.
You mean like when I went and looked up those cases when the link in that page didn't work? Lazy like that? When I discovered that Shapiro v. Thompson wasn't about travel? Lazy like that? When I looked up the other cases too? Lazy like that? I didn't post all the links because they aren't the topic of this thread. And also because I saw no reason to add insult to injury.
I said nothing to you about elected servants. I was talking about the government not having the right to control the people when you chimed in about rights to travel. I was the one making the argument about not letting the government have control, not you. You might know my current job but you know nothing about me, and you certainly don't cite legal cases better.
Chief1297
New member
I got on this thread thinking that all of the liberals in Illinois had passed away and new elections were being held by folks that believed in the Constitution. Come to think of it, even then , I dont know if Illinois would pass concealed carry. Since they have passed all of the laws against carry, maybe they are not ready. Either way, it isnt going to happen.
Rhino I stood next to a guy last week in Wisconsin, we were at the Gun Range. He started to load his gun, while we were putting up targets. I stopped him before he could do any harm. I was at a Firearms Training class a month ago and a guy said he told his wife to empty the clip of her 9mm. on an Attacker. Two incidents that I have experienced personally, that assure me that people need to be Trained to handle a deadly weapon. While in the Army, I was Trained how to handle many weapons. Nobody was handed a weapon and told, go shoot it! You can go stand in front of an untrained new gun owner if you want, Ill stay with the logical approach of sound Firearms Training is essential to everyone safety. Arizona, Florida, Wisconsin and many other State Concealed Carry License holders don't have a problem with it, why do you? What is to gain by having inexperienced, untrained people carrying a Gun? Your side of this debate only gives a valid argument to the Anti-Gunners. This is the kind of non sense that the Chicago Mayor would love to throw in our face. We need to get along and not debate a portion of what is required by Law to get a CCW License, we need to focus on getting CCW in Illinois. The wrongfully over publicized story of Trayvon Martin being shot by a CCW License holder. I am not going to get into a debate over the details of the case, I am simply informing you that there are those who will take anything involving a shooting involving a CCW holder and try to put a negative spin on it. Case in Point George Zimmerman, CCW License holder. Posterboy of the Brady Center.
Chief 1297 Thank you for your Service to our Nation, I am Sorry, you have lost all faith in it. It must be hard to believe that the Constitution and all that it represents is a worthless piece of paper that has no meaning or value anymore. I for one think you Sir, are sadly mistaken. Next time you hear your National Anthem, do not Pledge you Allegiance to the Flag, the Nation or the Constitution, you have given up on all of them. We will see if I am correct in my continued belief in our Constitution or if you are correct and we are just living in a Socialist State.
Chief1297
New member
While we may not fully be there yet we most certainly are well on our way. Our founding fathers principles have been trampled and bastardized beyond recognition. I feel sorry for our nation and for its people but we have no one to blame but ourselves. We have become a nation of parasites living off the works of others. We care nothing of our constitution or our country but only care about what our country can do for me. After all, the constitution is only words on a paper if you refuse to follow its principles. We may not be dead as a country but we are going to make the Greeks look like financial Gods before it is all over with. I have no illusion that we can even begin to pay back all that we owe. Mark my words. We will default and we will descend into CHAOS. Yes, I have lost faith, my eyes are open to what we have become and where we are headed. It is truly sickening and I will begin as of today flying my flag upside down as we are in a country in distress. It will remain that way until election day in which the country will have its say. If the liberals win, so be it. I will remove my nations flag and replace it with my states flag. Good men and women have stood by long enough. If we dont change, socialism is our smallest of worries.
Rhino
New member
I've seen 'trained' people do the same things, and worse. I've also seen untrained people exercise extreme caution. And the training I received for my concealed carry license covered neither of those topics, so it wouldn't have satisfied the requirement you think it would. That's assuming that concealed carry training is what you're referring to. I wasn't talking about concealed carry, but apparently you are. I wasn't even talking about gun rights. The point is that it isn't up to you or I what arbitrary qualifications people should have to meet before exercising a constitutional right, nor should it be.
Most Americans don't have a problem exercising their constitutional rights without getting permission from you or anyone else. Why do you?
Again, I didn't mention concealed carry. This all started with a question from fudo, "So, which other of your rights do think the government should require training on, before they let you use them?" Notice the word "other", as in, not about guns. sonofcops replied with the comment, "There will always be a need for a government and there will always be a need to control its people..." I took exception to the premise that the the government needs to "control its people". Then Seeya engaged me in a discussion of driving rights, also not gun related. Gun rights were not the topic in those exchanges, nor was concealed carry specifically, but you're twisting my remarks into that context as if it was.
Actually, your premise that everyone has to be trained and thus get government permission before exercising their 2nd amendment rights is exactly what the anti-gunners and corrupt Chicago politicians want.
I wasn't debating CCW. I don't know why you were. But if you could stay on topic, I'm sure we'd have no problem getting along.
What makes you think I need to be informed of that which I am already very aware of?
Chief1297 Wow, it is not good to hit the nail on the head sometimes. Take a trip to Norfolk Va. and spend a little, no, make that a lot of time, with some Sailors. You will find that the Spirit of Honor, still exists. You owe that to all who have Served with you, to not give up so easily. Look at me, I still have some fight in me, and YOU do too. Set the example, lead by actions, not words. You have a lot to offer, stop keeping it all to yourself. Volunteer to speak at your local High Schools, young men need a good example, if not you, who? If not now, when? Get in the fight, you old Salty Dog!
Seeya
New member
By definition it is only a crime if you use the public hihways for commercial purposes, private use of the public highways is leagal with out license. A license is a permission to do something which would otherwise be illeagal. Article six of the US Constitution make US code the law of the land. The cite reinforce my position.
When you use the term Gov't. you refer to public servants.
You brought up driving.
Just so you understand that I see a correlation between our right to carry on our person as a right that means we do not need permission to excercise it, just as we do not need to obtain a driver license in order exercise our right to travel.
The first thing the Nazi's did was restrict travel, the next thing they did was take away firearms. Get the picture, if you allow one right to fall the restbegin to crumble.
Rhino
New member
Again, the right to travel and the right to drive are not the same thing. You can't legally drive on public roads in any state without a license. If you think you can, then feel free to do so. If you ever get pulled over, be sure to let us know how that turns out.
I wouldn't advise trying it in Ohio though. Ohio Revised Code, Title 45, Section 4507.02. "No person shall permit the operation of a motor vehicle upon any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking knowing the operator does not have a valid driver’s license issued to the operator by the registrar of motor vehicles under this chapter or a valid commercial driver’s license issued under Chapter 4506. of the Revised Code." As you can see Ohio also makes it illegal to dive without a license even on private property, which I personally think is a load of crap.
I wouldn't advise trying it in Ohio though. Ohio Revised Code, Title 45, Section 4507.02. "No person shall permit the operation of a motor vehicle upon any public or private property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel or parking knowing the operator does not have a valid driver’s license issued to the operator by the registrar of motor vehicles under this chapter or a valid commercial driver’s license issued under Chapter 4506. of the Revised Code." As you can see Ohio also makes it illegal to dive without a license even on private property, which I personally think is a load of crap.
