Burger King Shooting (Good Guy gets his Butt Shot Off)

[Treo]

This story was originally posted on THR

Link Removed
Police identify robber, customer in deadly Burger King shooting

BY JOSE PAGLIERY
jpagliery@MiamiHerald.com

Miami police released the names of those involved in the Burger King shootout Tuesday that ended with a dead armed robber and the seriously-wounded customer who shot him.

John Landers, 45, was the customer who walked up to the gun-wielding masked robber, 18-year-old Johnny Jean-Baptiste, when the restaurant's clerk was being robbed at 4 p.m. Tuesday.

According to police, Jean-Baptiste wore a ski mask when he walked into the Burger King at Northwest 54th Street and Biscayne Boulevard armed with a gun. It was a time, employees said, when it is usually crowded with schoolchildren and people getting out of work early. Jean-Baptiste then approached the counter, pointed his tiny semiautomatic Bryco .380 towards the restaurant's employees and demanded money.

That's when Landers, armed with a concealed weapons permit and his 9mm Glock 19, asked Jean-Baptiste to put the gun down, according to the police report.

Jean-Baptiste refused and began firing his gun and Landers shot back, police reported.

Within seconds, Landers had been shot in his chest, shoulder and arm -- and Jean-Baptiste lay dead on the restaurant floor, according to police.

According to police, Jean-Baptiste entered wearing a ski mask. He approached a clerk, showed his gun and demanded money. Within seconds, Landers eyed him and the two started arguing.

Jean-Baptiste fell to the floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

Landers, who was shot several times, was in serious but stable condition at Jackson Memorial Hospital's Ryder Trauma Center.

After the shootings, police divided witnesses into several groups outside the restaurant to gather information about the incident. Employees waiting to start their shift called friends and family members on their cellphones to pass the time because they were not allowed through the police tape.

''I just hope all my people are OK inside,'' Cynthia Thomas, who has worked at the Burger King for five years, said at the time. ``It is scary.''

The area is a prime destination for residents in the Upper East Side neighborhood -- featuring Soyka's restaurant, Sushi Siam and Andiamo Pizza.

The gun used by the robber was on the list of top 10 guns used in crimes in the U.S. in 2000, according TIME magazine, which published a study by U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Miami Herald staff writer Robert Samuels contributed to this story.

 

[justxboxin]

I need a bigger gun wow ... Don't know if my .380 would stop someone

 

[Wyldekard]

It would seem that of the two people with weapons in the story, only one was mentally ready to use his. Sorry the customer got shot, but a weapon is not meant to augment a conversation. If this situation was at the point where the weapon left the holster, it should have been fired immediately.

 

[Treo]

It would seem that of the two people with weapons in the story, only one was mentally ready to use his. Sorry the customer got shot, but a weapon is not meant to augment a conversation. If this situation was at the point where the weapon left the holster, it should have been fired immediately.

I agree with that completely, I probably would have thought twice about drawing in a lobby full of people though

I need a bigger gun wow ... Don't know if my .380 would stop someone

There's a whole mess of dead folks that got that way because of a .380

 

[Wyldekard]

I agree with that completely, I probably would have thought twice about drawing in a lobby full of people though

Absolutely! Tough to say, not being there myself, but this seems likely to be a situation where staying out if it would have been safer for everyone in the building. I've seen Ronald McDonald in person and he has deep pockets.

 

[Treo]

I've seen Ronald McDonald in person and he has deep pockets.

Big feet too :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Wyldekard]

Big feet too :biggrin: :biggrin:

Oops that's the King not Ronald. I haven't seen him, but he's got a treasury so it wouldn't have put him in a hut either.

 

[fudo]

As Tuco says, "If you're going to talk, talk. If you're going to shoot, don't talk."

 

[aich]

I need a bigger gun wow ... Don't know if my .380 would stop someone

Agreed, you need a caliber that matches your big mouth :big_boss:

 

[Treo]

Agreed, you need a caliber that matches your big mouth :big_boss:

Are you trying to get banned?

 

[aich]

As Tuco says, "If you're going to talk, talk. If you're going to shoot, don't talk."

Hhaha yea so what happens now? is he safe or is he going to be called an instigator as is life wasnt in immediate danger to loss of his life. he put himself in the middle

 

[aich]

Are you trying to get banned?

No just getting back at him for a remark he made at me yesterday.

 

[Treo]

Hhaha yea so what happens now? is he safe or is he going to be called an instigator as is life wasnt in immediate danger to loss of his life. he put himself in the middle

As of last report he was in serious condition in a hospital in Miami and not a one of the folks that called him a hero have paid one dime towards his medical expenses. The story is a year or two old

No just getting back at him for a remark he made at me yesterday.

If you don't like what someone said you report it or ignore it you don't follow them from thread to thread. I predict a short tenure here on usacarry

 

[The_Outlaw]

As Tuco says, "If you're going to talk, talk. If you're going to shoot, don't talk."

"When you have to shoot, shoot...don't talk."
-Tuco-

Great movie!

 

[Treo]

This post is a response to the original thread on THR by Moderator Jeff White.

Not Rockwell or Yokel, but I'll give you my personal ROE:

When myself or a loved one is in direct danger. Not indirect, like the robber is in the room, but direct, as in the robber has singled me or a loved one out for personal attention. That doesn't mean that I'm standing there with my thumb inserted someplace it shouldn't be. Upon recognition of the threat, I'm drawing my weapon, concealing it behind my thigh and moving myself and anyone with me to escape or cover. If the robber directs his attention to me or a loved one then he's engaged.

If the robber starts herding the customers together is another time I would act. That could well be a prelude to an execution.

There are too many things you won't know. Such as what if there are more then one robber? If there is a cover man that you haven't spotted, your attempt to engage the known bad guy at the counter could easily be met with a bullet in the back of the head. Then the robbery isn't foiled and you are dead...not a very acceptable solution. Was there one here? No, but the reports indicate that a possible accomplice sped away in a vehicle. You never know.

Real life isn't as cut and dried as it seems on the internet.

As I said in my earlier post, the police don't respond to an armed robbery by charging in shooting for a reason.

For all you advocates of slipping up behind the bad guy and putting a contact shot into the brain stem; Have you got any idea how difficult that is in real life? How close have you ever managed to get to someone without being detected? How close do you think you can get when that person is edgy because they are engaged in a dangerous activity?

For those of you who would make that no reflex kill shot to the brain stem stem from 15-30 feet, let me suggest a little exercise. Get a heart rate monitor, your CCW piece a few magazines of ammo and a styrofoam wig head. Mount the wig head at average male height, say 5'10" or so, pull a ski mask over it. Pace off 15 feet.

Now hook up your heart rate monitor and start doing jumping jacks, when your heart rate reaches 140 beats per minute, stop and make that brain stem shot. I think you'll find it's not as easy as it is when you have a normal heart rate.

Now think about the consequences of missing that walnut sized spot and not getting the no reflex kill. The bad guy fires his weapon injuring or killing the clerk.....The bad guy turns and fires wildly, maybe striking you or an innocent bystander......Handguns are terrible fight stoppers. We only carry them because in modern society it's not practical to carry a rifle. I don't care if you have a .45, .44 magnum or anything else, you are not carrying a death ray and there are no magic bullets. Unless you are lucky enough to make a central nervous system hit, you can count on the bad guy staying in the fight until he loses enough blood to lose consciousness. To expect anything else to happen is living in a dream world. If he does fall over incapacitated just thank whatever personal deity you believe in because someone was looking over you that day.

It's real easy for someone who has never seen violence close up to sit in behind the cover of their monitor and make brave pronouncements of what the proper course of action is. I sincerely hope that their well honed sense of justice is tempered with a hard safe dose of reality before they are ever faced with having to live up to that sense of justice.

 

[Deserteagle]

Sounds like another wannabe cop story. What authority did he think he had by ordering the robber to put down his gun? Oh wait, he had the police authority granted to him by his concealed weapon permit.

Its good that he took out a bad guy, but I think his actions wasted more money than the robbery would have if gone uninterrupted. Robber could have made it away with $100 and there would be plenty of witnesses. But this guy is probably going to pay thousands of dollars in medical bills when his life was not directly threatened in the first place. He should have ran out and called 911.

 

[Bighouse Doc]

"When you have to shoot, shoot...don't talk."
-Tuco-

Great movie!

Was that a cap'n ball he had underwater?

-Doc

 

[-06]

Nothing wrong with a 380. I call them "mini 45s" because they travel slow/hit hard. Several countries still use them as their service arms and so do many police depts. IMO, better to dump the impact than to shoot holes through.

 

[B2Tall]

The customer did the worst thing possible - he became the perp's #1 threat and then failed to follow through with that threat in a timely manner. It's hardly a surprise he got shot. Luckily no bystanders were hit. I might give a warning to someone armed with a knife or bat (provided they were not close enough to strike me), but if the perp has a gun and I choose to draw, you can be sure that I'll be the first to pull the trigger - sans warning.

This should also be a lesson to those who believe that simply displaying one's firearm is an effective way of defusing a situation. More often than not it's an effective way of making yourself a target.

 

[cluznar]

It does seem that quite a few bad guys carry a .380 --- but if they put a couple .380 rounds in your chest you can be carried out. SHOT PLACEMENT -- Many bad guys believe in shooting with one hand, you use two and make sure your first shot counts.

When you need to shoot, shoot, don't talk. :neo: