Best Self-Defense Load for .380

[mamacat2u]

SNIP/

Me and my wife both carry Walther PK-380's loaded with Speer 95 grain Hollow Point Gold Dot ammo that has a veloicity of just over 1.000 F.P.S. I would not trust my life or my wife's life to an inferior weapon at any time and like I said we both carry .380 cal. Walther's

P.S. I am a retired Police Detective Sergeant that was also the Dept. Range Master and Armorer and the State High Master shooting champion along with certification in being an Expert Witness for Court Room testimoney for Weapons and Projectile related matters.
AND I CARRY A .380 with confidence
Bill Hurley
Retired
Det. Sergeant

This post is full of awesome! You are very similar to my firearms instructor and I 100% respect his opinion because he has lived the bad world in real life. I purchased my Ruger .380 LCP with LaserMax based on his opinion of my skills set with regards to CCH. I further sought out his opinion when trying to determine which I would be best suited for - 9mm or .40. He told me for as small as I am and with my skills set that a 9mm would be perfect for me and is most assuredly a "man stopper." I also went with his opinions on the best rounds to carry in both. Needless to say, I hope to NEVER, EVER have to use either weapon, but if I have to, then I am confident.

I saw him yesterday and meant to ask him about alternating rounds but he was busy training a police officer. So, it can wait until next range visit.

 

[SGB]

Clearly, we're making no headway here. You just can't teach someone who refuses to learn or thinks they know it all. Here it is, plain and simple; you may have thought you originally said that "substituting an inferior platform for a superior platform because the superior platform is too large or heavy to carry" was what you wrote. But it wasn't. The choice that Outlaw posted was between being armed or being unarmed. It was a very simple and cogent thought. But you "did not subscribe" to his conclusion. In other words, you disagreed with his statement. And you were wrong.

You need to make up your mind or at least get your story straight, first you're not trying to persuade me and now I'm too stupid for you to teach me. I'm sorry you failed to understand my simple post. And I have no doubt based on your twisted interpretation of my post that in your mind that I'm wrong.

You can choose ball ammo for all of your needs. I really don't care one way or another. There is no "absolute" in this discussion other than those you've created and tried to defend.

You at least are correct in this statement. I am free to carry ball ammo just as stated in my original post. And I have not tried to defend my opinion, I HAVE defended my opinion and I've done so without resorting to the personal demagogy you've resorted to.

The ONLY .380 acp ammunition I would carry is Ball. Nothing else provides reliable penetration.

I am frustrated by the fact that it appears to me that you are holding yourself out to be the only expert here, who's opinion should be taken as fact. In this post and others, you are confrontational to the point of being annoying. Don't you understand the purpose of the forums here? I took some time yesterday in posting some comparative videos. And I hope that some readers learned something from them. But it is their choice, not yours, as to what to carry. I completely disagree with your conclusion that ball ammo in a .380 pistol is the best choice. But it is your choice.

The fact that you are frustrated is very evident in your posts. Nowhere have I claimed to be an expert, however it's the experts that I put weight of worth in not amateurs as self defense is life and death serious not a hobby. The purpose of the forum is discussion is that not clear to you? Again what you posted were amateur videos and while well done and entertaining a prudent man would hardly use them to make informed conclusions as to any one cartridges terminal ballistic performance.

Until now, I don't think I've ever met anyone who appeared to be angry with everyone. In real life, you may be a wonderful guy but here, you take a tone of superiority and aggressiveness that surprises me.

The fact you perceive my posts as "angry is quite funny. I don't take any written discussion posted on an internet forum personally as the written world lacks tone and inflection. How you perceive my posts is a reflection on you and your admitted "frustration".

SGB, you've worn me down. You win. You can choose to harangue me until your fingers hurt. I really don't care what you do. But I'll not participate in this ridiculous conversation with you any longer.

MilShooter

I win? I wasn't aware this discussion was a contest. I'm hardly close minded, however the standard required to change my opinion is high and I'm sorry but you failed to reach the required threshold. Unfortunately you've decided that discussions with opposing views must be a contest and after challenging my opinion and failing to sway it that you must result to emotional demagogy.

Gods Speed to you and yours MilShooter

 

[rilkil23]

Perhaps a group hug is in order. What was the original question asked by the OP?

 

[mamacat2u]

Perhaps a group hug is in order. What was the original question asked by the OP?

I don't think he/she was asking for hugs. LOL

 

[USN2Pulpit]

From the OP

Yeah, easy to forget the original question in a thread like this!

? = Best self defense load for .380

Thanks!

 

[ArizonaNRAsupporter]

Yeah, easy to forget the original question in a thread like this!

? = Best self defense load for .380

Thanks!

It was mentioned by a few people... Hornady critcal defense, federal premium hydra shok, Speer gold dot... etc. Any reputable brand with a jacketed hallow point defense round will do more than plenty. :smile:.

How do you like your .380? I have an LCP, and I really enjoy it as a pocket gun. My normal CC is either a glock 33,27 or 23, BUT I really do enjoy carrying the LCP when I just want to throw something in my pocket. The only complaint I have about the LCP, are the sites. I think I'm going to get some orange paint and make the sites stand out a little bit...

 

[SGB]

Link Removed

 

[Stan45]

Link Removed

First-look observations of the performance of the .380ACP (9x17mm) in 10% ballistic gelatin blocks

 

[SGB]

Link Removed

First-look observations of the performance of the .380ACP (9x17mm) in 10% ballistic gelatin blocks

The link says 20% ballistic gelatin, and it won't open for me.


Here's a very informative read, Although dated (the information is still very relivent) this is a must read doc on the topic of Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness which was produced by the DOJ and FBI. See: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm

The .380 is certainly better then nothing to be sure, but the terminal performance of the .380 is notoriously poor. If you read the research by people like Dr Roberts, who does ballistics testing for multiple US agencies, you realize the .380 is a poor choice in SD Handgun calibers.

 

[ArizonaNRAsupporter]

The link says 20% ballistic gelatin, and it won't open for me.


Here's a very informative read, Although dated (the information is still very relivent) this is a must read doc on the topic of Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness which was produced by the DOJ and FBI. See: FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

The .380 is certainly better then nothing to be sure, but the terminal performance of the .380 is notoriously poor. If you read the research by people like Dr Roberts, who does ballistics testing for multiple US agencies, you realize the .380 is a poor choice in SD Handgun calibers.

The question wasn't "is the .380 the best SD caliber on the planet?". OP wanted to know best type of SD ammunition. Oh, and if you're going to push a source of information, it might be in your best interest to find something a little newer than 23 years old.

 

[mamacat2u]

The question wasn't "is the .380 the best SD caliber on the planet?". OP wanted to know best type of SD ammunition.

Funny how stuff gets misconstrued in a thread. lololol I love my .380 and would rather have it than nothing at all. Just sayin' . . . .

 

[mshean1955]

I like Glazer Safety Slugs in my .380, as far as 'under powered' its all about shot placement, no matter what the cartridge is.

 

[mamacat2u]

I like Glazer Safety Slugs in my .380, as far as 'under powered' its all about shot placement, no matter what the cartridge is.

Exactly why I MAKE myself practice shooting all my CCHs, even the .380. Go once a week, no matter the pain involved, I need a constant reminder what a beast the Ruger LCp is - weekly!

 

[Firefighterchen]

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[SGB]

Hydra-shock's are known to clog with fabric and mimic ball ammunition terminal ballistics.

 

[ArizonaNRAsupporter]

Funny how stuff gets misconstrued in a thread. lololol I love my .380 and would rather have it than nothing at all. Just sayin' . . . .

I really enjoy mine too. I don't have it with me all the time, but when I don't want to have a bigger gun IWB, I have a little DeSantis pocket holster for the LCP

 

[ArizonaNRAsupporter]

Hydra-shock's are known to clog with fabric and mimic ball ammunition terminal ballistics.

Actually very interesting. I used to carry the Hydra-shoks in all of mine, but recently saw a demonstration from a Hornady rep showing the 4 layers of denim test with their Critical Defense round, and their TAP rounds, and now I'm a fan of their stuff. All of the SD ammunition I've purchased recently has either been Hornady or Speer gold dot.

Thank you for posting this, I saw your post and did some other research about the same subject and it was very useful. I will now take all of my FPHS rounds and shoot them at the range.

 

[Firefighterchen]

If you guys can post up the references you have that hydro shock's clog more so than any other jacketed hollow point, I would like to read it. A quick google search doesn't show any trends that hydro shocks have a problem with clogging.

 

[SGB]

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

In pistol calibers, expanding hollowpoints are preferred to create the largest permanent wound cavity possible. There are a lot of people who pick a load without adequately researching the ammo they trust their life on. The Federal Hydra-Shock is one such example. It was the whiz-bang bullet of its time, but has since been eclipsed by many other bullet designs. The principal weakness of that round are its lack of expansion after passing through clothing.


FirearmsTactical.com - Web Site Index and Navigation Center


Above are a couple of resources.

A Word of Caution about Hornady’s Critical Defense Handgun Ammunition
- by Shawn Dodson

 

[Stan45]

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First-look observations of the performance of the .380ACP (9x17mm) in 10% ballistic gelatin blocks
John Ervin
Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing