Michigan here, Im being forced to open carry!!


Educate yourself on when and where you can Open Carry and then do so, everywhere it is legal.
 

You are correct the establishment has to make 75% of its money from other then beer, wine, and liquor. Also I was told that the suspension must not be for certain things like points or any kind of conviction. mine was suspended for non payment of a ticket (thanks EX WIFE) and i was told that i was fine to obtain my shall issue cpl! that came from a friend that sits on the state gun board! So don't give up so easy! Plus you have the right to appeal and go before the gun board and explain your suspension and in all likely hood you should stand a fairly good chance at convincing the board to grant your cpl!
 
Guys and Ladies, while I do not know the EXACT wording in your areas as to carrying open or concealed, I do know that a lot of states permits say HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT, and does not specify open or concealed, .........now our instructors stated several times during the training class although the permit does not specify, you should keep your weapon concealed 100% of the time unless its needed, and also to take a little time being sure it is concealed, because doing this will sooner or later save you a lot of pain in the ass, and I know about Wally World and open carrying IMHO that is just being stupid, no matter what the law says, because a instince like this has happened several times, you walk into wall mart with your 45 straped to your hip 'fully leagal" and old mrs busy body sees you and gets excited fumbles with her phone gets more excited, finaly calls 911 the law shows up, and trust me they will show up if called, you get a cop that had a bad day, shakes you down if your lucky you may keep your gun and go home, if your not lucky, you better have a good lawyer, and maybe doctor:angry:
 
Actually that's what we have the CONSTITUTION for, i.e. so states can't do as they please; also people in states can be BORN there rather then chose.

Actually the US Constitution is a guideline for the Federal government in it's actions towards the states and foreign policy, not a guideline for the states.

Each state has it's own Constitution for it's citizens, the one YOU have the power to change if you don't agree with it, or to move to another state.

The hierarchy of power is the People first, then the States and then the Federal Government. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking it's the other way.

Read your historical documents, screw what you've heard or learned in school, verify the facts for yourself.
 
Guys and Ladies, while I do not know the EXACT wording in your areas as to carrying open or concealed, I do know that a lot of states permits say HANDGUN CARRY PERMIT, and does not specify open or concealed, .........now our instructors stated several times during the training class although the permit does not specify, you should keep your weapon concealed 100% of the time unless its needed, and also to take a little time being sure it is concealed, because doing this will sooner or later save you a lot of pain in the ass, and I know about Wally World and open carrying IMHO that is just being stupid, no matter what the law says, because a instince like this has happened several times, you walk into wall mart with your 45 straped to your hip 'fully leagal" and old mrs busy body sees you and gets excited fumbles with her phone gets more excited, finaly calls 911 the law shows up, and trust me they will show up if called, you get a cop that had a bad day, shakes you down if your lucky you may keep your gun and go home, if your not lucky, you better have a good lawyer, and maybe doctor:angry:

This is where it pays to be familiar with the exact definitions of your local laws.

When an individual is educated on and employs their rights professionally. Knows the definitions for such ridiculous charges as disorderly conduct, inciting a riot or whatever BS offense that a LEO may try to come up with to harass or charge you, you stand on solid legal ground.

LEO will listen when you start citing statutes numbers from your local jurisdiction, they are unaccustomed to people knowing their rights and especially those that can cite from memory the laws that they themselves don't always fully understand. They will confer with a supervisor and if you are in the right, which you should be, your going home with your gun.

Worst case scenario, they falsely arrest you, you sue and departmental policy changes from the ensuing court case.

Don't be afraid to exercise your rights as per your local Constitution, or quite frankly, you don't deserve them.
 
Actually the US Constitution is a guideline for the Federal government in it's actions towards the states and foreign policy, not a guideline for the states.

Each state has it's own Constitution for it's citizens, the one YOU have the power to change if you don't agree with it, or to move to another state.

The hierarchy of power is the People first, then the States and then the Federal Government. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking it's the other way.

Read your historical documents, screw what you've heard or learned in school, verify the facts for yourself.

The Constitution says different:

Article VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Amendment 10
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

Hence, we see that the Constitution delegates certain powers to the federal govenrment, and prohibits these and certain others to the states.

It is likewise not a "guideline," it is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, along with all laws wruitten pusuant to it-- and the judges in every state are bound thereby, any thing in the laws or Constitutions of any state notwithstanding; and the officials of every state are likewise bound by oath or affirmation to support it.

Finally, "The People" of whom you speak, have NO powe--, other than to elect congressional officials for their respective state; and these officials are likewise bound by the Constitution, as stated above.. but THEY decide what the Constitution means.

That's means that "the people" have about as much "power" as a slave choosing his master; regardless of his choice, he's still a slave.
 
Id see about getting the law violation against you removed from your record, or at least see if you can meet with the gun board and get approved, you can always appeal a denial.
As for being in Detroit, I agree, if you carried, you might have been able to defend yourself, then again, who knows. Open carry is kinda a touchy subject, alot of unneeded attention is drawn to you, both by LEO and civilians. But then again, it is legal. I only open carry when I absolutely have to. But hey, OC if you want, but Id get an appeal on the CC issue. Removing a weapon from the trunk every time you get out of car is a bit of an annoyance, and again, draws more attention to you. If an LEO sees you, he could mistakenly think youre there to cause trouble and hold you at gun point, and/or inspect the way you were transporting it, and then slap you with more law violations.
Just some things to think about. Hope all goes well.
 
Don't forget that you have to transport it UNLOADED, as well as in the trunk of the car; meanwhile the dork with the CPL can have it holstered right with him while he's driving the car!

And you're right about LEO's harassing you; for example, the "excusionary rule" was written because it's no deterrent to sue the cops, to stop them from harassing searches of people. No, to stop harassment, legislators had to get ALL evidence gained from such searches THROWN OUT ENTIRELY. (This is also another reason why CPL laws should be thrown out as well-- just like evidence obtained from harassing searches-- i.e. since CPL lawas are likewise an exposure to undue public scrutiny which attracts police harassment, searches and seizures).

So of course a lawsuit won't deter the cops from harassing you if you're carrying openly.

However again, the guidelines ALWAYS apply:
If a cop says ANYTHING to you, your response should be the same: "Am I being detained?"
if he says "no," WALK AWAY.
If he says "yes," say "then I want to talk to my lawyer. I have nothing further to say." (Then call your lawyer as soon as given a chance; If you don't have a regular lawyer, GET one. TODAY.)
That's IT IT.
(Meanwhile if he draws his gun on you, then you ARE being detained, so there's no need to ask).

Remember: the police are NOT your friends; the most famous lie is "I'm from your government, and I'm here to help you." DO NOT try to "be cooperative," they'll just use it against you.
You have NOTHING TO GAIN by talking to police, and EVERYTHING TO LOSE; in fact they WANT you to talk, even to lecture or insult them etc. since again, like the saying goes: "anything you say can and will be used against you." Your first and best defense against police is your SILENCE-- and if you talk, you're throwing it away.

By law, Police are ALLOWED to ask you questions-- and they are NOT REQUIRED to inform you of your right to refuse to anwer.

But if you ASK whether you're being detained, then they ARE required to to tell you yes or no.
And if they DO say you're being detained, then you DO have the right remain silent and talk to a lawyer-- and they can't ask you ANY questions after that. If they do, just say "I have nothing to say until I talk to my lawyer."

And if anyone thinks I'm being hard on police, and are one of these right-wing "blame the victim" nutjobs: well, then go ahead and talk to them, it's your funeral; again, I didn't invent the exclusionary rule. POLICE HARASSMENT did; a libertarian is a right-wing conservative who just got a cavity-search.
 
I think those are WORST case scenarios. Michigan cops are growing somewhat aware of the rights of OC people. I carry openly once in a while, actually was just at Meijers. I got a few odd looks, but aside from that, was pretty much ignored. Then again, Im pretty well groomed, [grooming is a major deterrent to getting any negative feed back from police or civilians] wasnt harassed once, nor were the police called for a MWAG
Either way, be careful.
 
Scarecrow is correct. If you have a cpl you can carry anyplace but a Bar this means TGI Fridays, Applebees, or anyplace that serves food or sells any thing else ie. Meijer, Walmart, Sears, Macy, party stores, bank ect . The place that you can not carry only sells liquor, the local watering hole.
 
I think those are WORST case scenarios. Michigan cops are growing somewhat aware of the rights of OC people. I carry openly once in a while, actually was just at Meijers. I got a few odd looks, but aside from that, was pretty much ignored. Then again, Im pretty well groomed, [grooming is a major deterrent to getting any negative feed back from police or civilians] wasnt harassed once, nor were the police called for a MWAG
Either way, be careful.

It wasn't a few "worst-case scenarios" that caused Congress to pass a FEDERAL LAW excluding evidence found during illegal searches.
Before that, the best you could do was SUE under the 4th Amendment.... and it didn't do much to deter cops from ransacking innocent people and their homes, just like British soldiers executing the "Writs of Assistance" on American colonists; and if they found something then the cops became heroes, but if they didn't then usually the victims had little recourse that would deter cops from doing so again in the future.

I also don't have much faith in the notion of "Michigan cops are growing somewhat aware" of what are are our LEGAL RIGHTS!
In contrast, CPL isn't even a right, it's a PRIVILEGE; so if cops harass OC people rather than CPL's, they're simply taking advantage of OC's being more visible.

As for "grooming," yeah gotta make sure the Amerikan Geshtapo doesn't think you're a long-haired Jew or Gypsy etc.-- and god help you if you're considered "mentally defective!" Gotta look "clean-cut," and wealthy so that they'll figure you're well-connected and have access to legal representation-- the one thing that cops wont' mess with.

You're darn right you better "be careful."-- like the Cold War song went: "don't turn around, the KGB's in town!"

What, you thought this was America? I just heard Mayor Bloomberg shooting his mouth off about how mayors have a right to ban guns from being carried in cities.
 
W.D.Murray I hate to say it, but your information is incorrect, its any place thats main profit comes from liquor served by the glass, bars and taverns are off limits, but places like walmart or applebees is not off limits to CC or OC. As it states on the back of your CPL "...bar or tavern where the primary source of income is sale of liquor by the glass..."
 
RE: "clean-cut," and wealthy so that they'll figure you're well-connected and have access to legal representation ...". this is quite accurate!
 
law says you cannot carry either way if a bar serves liquer by the glass .I believe applebees and wallmar are ok to carry and break no laws.
 
I have a CPL. Of course I know nothing about you. That being said, and playing Devil's advocate - If you could not be responsible enough to keep your drivers license by obeying the law, why should we believe you would obey the law to keep from loosing your CPL?


This thought is the first thing that came to my mind as well. My second thought was, you sound like a young man who is still awfully angry and I'm only guessing ... but would be much more apt to draw and shoot when maybe you shouldn't have.

Please read the book "In the Gravest Extreames" by Mr. Massod Ayoob.

I understand the emotions you are dealing with. Your lucky, all you lost was a little money and a brusied ego.

I've been there, done that and got the scars to prove it. In my case, they walked away with a cool $35 and left me with 5 broken ribs, both eyes swelled shut and a slash in my gut requiring 24 stiched to close.

If your going to carry, for your own safty, learn how & when to properly use your newly aquired self defense tool.

PEACE:pleasantry:
 
My license was suspended due to having too many points. I think it was 5 and it was suspended for a month.
Based on my reading of the CPL law, if that was why your drivers' license was suspended, then it can't keep you from getting your CPL.
 
ricbac has it right. In michigan the only type of carry in pistol free zones such as a church,school,bank,bar,etc....is open carry. You can not conceal carry in these zones. When you open carry in these zones you must have a valid CPL License in your possession.
 
BillyBob, There is not one documented case of something like that ever having happened. Please site it if you have it.

Link Removed


Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint

By Melanie Stout

MILWAUKEE - A Milwaukee man found out the hard way that carrying a gun for protection doesn't always keep you safe. In fact, it may have made him a target.

The 34-year-old man legally owned a handgun and carried it out in the open in his holster for protection.

Neighbors say they knew he was always armed.

"It was kind of scary to just see him walking around all the time with that gun kind of just out in the open," said Shambria Mayham Autman. She lives near Teutonia and Good Hope and said they called him "The guy with the gun."

But it wasn't scary for at least one person who robbed "The guy with the gun" at gunpoint.

"I think he was trying to scare people off like, 'Yeah, don't mess with me,' kind of attitude, but it didn't work," Mayham Autman explained.

The president of Wisconsin Carry, Nik Clark, says 100's of thousands of people open carry and he's never heard of anything like this.

"So it really is a very unusual situation, very unique," Clark said.

The victim didn't want to go on camera but said he carried the gun because he had been jumped and held up at knife point in the past. He believes, in his case, open carry made him a target and he will no longer do it.

He said his case proves gun owners should have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Clark agrees. "By and large it is a significant deterrent, open carry is, but I think it really does make the point that Wisconsin should have concealed carry along with open carry so that people who live in a very high crime neighborhood where criminals aren't deterred by firearms would have the ability to conceal carry to protect themselves. The two really work hand in hand," Clark said.


Link Removed

You were saying?
 
Link Removed


Man Legally Carrying Gun Robbed at Gunpoint

By Melanie Stout

MILWAUKEE - A Milwaukee man found out the hard way that carrying a gun for protection doesn't always keep you safe. In fact, it may have made him a target.


He said his case proves gun owners should have the right to carry concealed weapons.

Clark agrees. "By and large it is a significant deterrent, open carry is, but I think it really does make the point that Wisconsin should have concealed carry along with open carry so that people who live in a very high crime neighborhood where criminals aren't deterred by firearms would have the ability to conceal carry to protect themselves. The two really work hand in hand," Clark said.


Link Removed

You were saying?
And the line I put in bold above is the primary reason many people doubt this actually occurred. More than a few think it was staged to help get a concealed carry law passed in Wisconsin.
 
ricbac has it right. In michigan the only type of carry in pistol free zones such as a church,school,bank,bar,etc....is open carry. You can not conceal carry in these zones. When you open carry in these zones you must have a valid CPL License in your possession.
Actually, you can carry concealed in a church if you have the approval of the head(s) of that church. You would be surprised at how many do. If the church is conservative in nature, they tend to have more than a few who work as volunteer security.

And banks are only pistol free zones to those who have no license. With a CPL you can conceal carry in any bank that is NOT a federal reserve bank. In fact, except for those banks that are posted, most would likely prefer that you do conceal, so as not to upset the sheep. :wink:
 

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