"Trespassers will be shot" idiot convicted of murder

[JSDinTexas]

Texas has an interesting take on no tresspassing signs. You can paint a purple stripe on a fencepost or tree or whatever at the edge of your property - must be purple, at least 1 ft long x 1 in wide, bottom of stripe between 3 ft and 5 ft from the ground - this is a legal no tresspassing sign in Texas.

 

[Darroch]

FYI _ I cannot speak for the local courts interpretation and ultimate outcome but........

Levees are only easements that give the govt. the right to maintain them and flood backwater areas when necessary and do not give the public right to trespass on private property.

 

[S&W645]

FYI _ I cannot speak for the local courts interpretation and ultimate outcome but........

Levees are only easements that give the govt. the right to maintain them and flood backwater areas when necessary and do not give the public right to trespass on private property.

Here, we owned the land they are on. We being the Agency of the State I worked for. Public and property owner's next to it only have access to it if we allowed.

SFWMD Home Page

 

[Hamilton Felix]

ShortStop
Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix
The Second Amendment Foundation has neat little stickers that make it clear "the owner of this property is armed" and "there is nothing inside worth risking your life for." One of those on the door is far as I'll go. Even the "protected by second amendment" with a picture of the wrong end of a gun, is over the line. If forced to shoot, you want to look "regrettably forced," not "eager," when the investigators come after you.

So you think I should take my DONT TREAD ON ME flag off my flag pole in my yard that flys in my small suburb neighborhood? Not a chance. :no:

Actually, I admire the Gadsden Flag. :biggrin:

But in these PC times, I'll avoid anything that suggests I want to shoot.

I'm no lawyer. I understand there are definitions of what constitutes (adeequately) "posted." And I think if someone's there and you tell them to leave, they were only committing "simple trespass." As I understand it, refusing the legal order to leave makes it "criminal trespass," and puts you on better ground for any use of force.

But you can bet that in general, the gun owner will usually be the first target for persecution - I mean prosecution... In this case, the trigger-happy moron deserves to hang. But even when the property owner is 100% in the right, I wouldn't counting on walking free.

 

[Doc Mustang]

Deadly Force and the Government

When I was trained in physical security as a young Petty Officer in the submarine force I was made to memorize the following:

"Deadly Force is that force which a person uses with the purpose of causing, or knows or should know would create a considerable risk of causing death or serious bodily injury. Its use is only justified as a last resort when all other lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be employed and only under the following conditions:"

1. Defense of items vital to the national security of the United States. (This was understood to mean Nuclear, Chemical, or Biological weapons material as well as certain types of classified information)

2. Defense of items not vital to the security of the United States but are inherently dangerous to others. (This was understood to mean conventional weapons or explosives.)

3. Self-Defense in the face of the threat of deadly force or serious bodily harm.

4. Defense of other persons in danger of death or serious bodily harm.

5. Apprehension of persons known or beloved to pose a threat of death or serious bodily injury to others.

6. Prevention of the escape of persons known or believed to pose a threat of death or serious bodily injury to others if allowed to go free.

7. Lawful order of the President of the United States or one of his duly appointed representatives. (If an officer says "shoot that guy!" or "shoot anyone who crosses that line" deadly force is authorized. Theoretically it is as if the one giving the order pulls the trigger and will be held accountable.)

These were known as the 7 laws of deadly force and had to be memorized and expounded upon for qualification. Some of them no longer apply as I am no longer required to guard nuclear material or classified information, but I still use this as a guide for when to shoot.

 

[localgirl]

You cannot shoot someone for trespassing. You cannot shoot someone for stealing from you. You cannot shoot someone for destroying your property. You cannot even shoot someone for bursting into your house.

That being said, if in any of those circumstances you feel your life or the lives of your family members are in imminent danger, you are justified in using deadly force.

However, THAT being said, nine times out of ten you are still going to be either detained, questioned, arrested, cited, charged, or made to stand trial.

 

[Nightmare45]

Where, when and if you shoot someone is dependent on various state laws, anyone breaking into my house has a problem, however: I do like the rules of deadly force posted by Doc Mustang. Any threat posed by an attacker will determine the response.

Texas: Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Note 3A: If you are insured you have a problem, let it go insurance homeowners or otherwise means you can recover.

Don't desire to shoot anyone, anytime, as noted ,final option, dependent on numerous variables. Peace, Love, Colt 45.

 

[Doc Mustang]

You cannot shoot someone for trespassing. You cannot shoot someone for stealing from you. You cannot shoot someone for destroying your property. You cannot even shoot someone for bursting into your house.

That being said, if in any of those circumstances you feel your life or the lives of your family members are in imminent danger, you are justified in using deadly force.

However, THAT being said, nine times out of ten you are still going to be either detained, questioned, arrested, cited, charged, or made to stand trial.

Good guidelines but not entirely accurate. If someone bursts into your house, there is a common law doctine, reinforced by statute in some states that there is no duty to retreat from your own place of residence. IF someone breaks into your house there is an assumption that they mean to do you harm. As such deadly force could be considered reasonable.

My wife has no way of knowing if someone who has just broken into our house is horribly lost, intends to steal our valuables, steal our kids, or rape her to death. That intruder's presence in our home is sufficient to cause her to be in fear of her life.

Unfortunately there are states that, by statute, do not recognize this common law doctrine. In which case she would have to grab our kids, and retreat to some more secure area of the house or attempt to escape.

One thing is certain if you are ever involved in a self defense shooting the following phrase (which should be committed to memory) will serve you well: "Sir, It is my intention to cooperate fully with your investigation. However, I decline to give a statement until I speak with my attorney"

This way you and your attorney may review the events in confidence, not to hide details but to clarify events in your mind prior to making statements which may (and probably will) contain contradictions and inaccuracies. The FIRST person you want interrogating you is someone who is on YOUR side.

Such representation is not cheap, should be arranged in advance, (keep a card in your wallet) and the cost may be mitigated by a self defense insurance policy.

 

[SC Tiger]

You cannot shoot someone for trespassing. You cannot shoot someone for stealing from you. You cannot shoot someone for destroying your property. You cannot even shoot someone for bursting into your house.

That being said, if in any of those circumstances you feel your life or the lives of your family members are in imminent danger, you are justified in using deadly force.

However, THAT being said, nine times out of ten you are still going to be either detained, questioned, arrested, cited, charged, or made to stand trial.

That depends on the state. In SC if someone breaks into your house you can shoot them. You can even shoot them in the act of breaking into the house (before they get inside). I'm not sure about tresspassing on your land (but not in your house) but I'm not going to shoot someone for that anyway unless they intend to do me or my family harm.

If I catch them in my house or trying to harm me, my wife or our baby, I'll let everyone use their imagination as to what would happen.

 

[localgirl]

Yes, I was being very general with my comments. Different states allow more or less leniency.

Without being too specific, my point was that really the only time you can shoot someone is if you feel they are a threat.

For example, if the person rushing into your house is a little kid or a frail old woman, you're going to have a hard time convincing a jury your life was in danger. But if it's in the middle of the night, it's a big, ominous figure in your doorway...you get the idea.

Anyway, the point is you have to think (if you have time) of how the scene looks. Or, if you don't have time, that becomes a factor too.

You guys all know this stuff. Boneheads who advertise they're going to shoot people don't.

I'm just always surprised at how many people think you can shoot someone who's stealing your stuff. Not that I'm saying you shouldn't be able to...

 

[Nightmare45]

Minor PS: Texas is a Castle Doctrine State. And I don't wish to have to shoot anyone, just be aware this is not an issue so long as you are a good guy/gal. As a quick aside, I do not have any of the little welcome mats posted at any entrance of my dwellings.

 

[FN1910]

Just to be clear in SC we call it the Castle Doctrine but it is actually:

This article may be cited as the "Protection of Persons and Property Act".

All of it may be summed up in this one paragraph and I would think that some version of it applies in states that have some form of the Castle Doctrine.

(C) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60.

As I was taught in the CWP class this breaks down into four rule:

1. You must be in a place that you have right to be (Doesn't matter where as long as you are not trespassing basically)
2. You are not breaking any laws (This can be tricky as if you are carrying where you are not supposed to......)
3. You are not at fault for bringng about the action (You didn't start the fight)
4. The amount of force used must be relative to the attack (In SC burglary at night is justification)

If you think about it if you follow these four rules you have a pretty good chance of justification in any state.

 

[S&W645]

You cannot shoot someone for trespassing. You cannot shoot someone for stealing from you. You cannot shoot someone for destroying your property. You cannot even shoot someone for bursting into your house.

That being said, if in any of those circumstances you feel your life or the lives of your family members are in imminent danger, you are justified in using deadly force.

However, THAT being said, nine times out of ten you are still going to be either detained, questioned, arrested, cited, charged, or made to stand trial.

Even the use of deadly force in property theft is covered if it is a forcible felony in some states. In Florida that includes:
1 Treason
2 Murder
3 Manslaughter
4 Sexual battery
5 Robbery including carjacking and home invasion
6 Burglary
7 Arson
8 Kidnapping
9 Aggravated assault
10 Aggravated battery
11 Aircraft piracy
12 Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging a bomb or destructive device
13 Aggravated stalking
14 Any other felony which involves the use or threat of use of physical force or violence against any person

 

[Gordon Shumway]

It is amazing how many stupid people are in the world.

In court, even an NRA membership sticker can be presented as a premeditated intent to shoot.

Not to mention it advertises, "I own guns, follow me home, then rob me while I'm gone."

etc.

 

[snatale42]

It is amazing how many stupid people are in the world.

In court, even an NRA membership sticker can be presented as a premeditated intent to shoot.

So basically you feel that anybody the has a Pro-Rights sticker on their truck/car is conspiring to murder? I've never heard of a court seeing it that way. I googled the crap out of it I can 't find 1 instance of that ever happening. Now if there were a self defense shooting and the guy had one of those "Nothing in this truck is worth your life" stickers then MAYBE.

 

[PatAz]

They are idiots pure and simple.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

So basically you feel that anybody the has a Pro-Rights sticker on their truck/car is conspiring to murder? I've never heard of a court seeing it that way. I googled the crap out of it I can 't find 1 instance of that ever happening. Now if there were a self defense shooting and the guy had one of those "Nothing in this truck is worth your life" stickers then MAYBE.

OK TROLL. This is your last chance at mental masturbation. Get your self off really well.

 

[snatale42]

OK TROLL. This is your last chance at mental masturbation. Get your self off really well.

Cute,I just saw your other post with your whining of Trolling and "Mental Masturbation" Have some issues do we? If your gonna try to impress yourself with stupid responses to valid posts keep the material fresh. So again? WHERE HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED!!!!! The only one TROLLING is YOU! I just did a search on you and from the looks of most of your posts & replies are just complaints obviously posted to get a rise out of people, if I'm not mistaken thats the DEFINITION of a Troll! I'm sure enough people are subscribed to this thread, do them a favor and don't waste the email alert with another ridiculous comment.

 

[SonoraRebel]

You cannot shoot someone for trespassing. You cannot shoot someone for stealing from you. You cannot shoot someone for destroying your property. You cannot even shoot someone for bursting into your house.

That being said, if in any of those circumstances you feel your life or the lives of your family members are in imminent danger, you are justified in using deadly force.

However, THAT being said, nine times out of ten you are still going to be either detained, questioned, arrested, cited, charged, or made to stand trial.

Wanna bet? Where the hell are you from... New Jersey?

 

[snatale42]

Wanna bet? Where the hell are you from... New Jersey?

:laugh: NJ, the only state that MAY be more commie than my home state of MA, Here in VA they'd drag out the dead guy, take a statement and be on their way. I worked with a guy who shot and wounded an intruder and every cop on scene ripped him a new a$$hole for NOT killing him.