Open carry in Upstate NY

[rheaj]

nogods,

Thanks for taking the time to do some research and share your findings with us! Your results are certainly interesting.

I suspect that the outcome of People v Parker may come from a literal interpretation of the code. When I wrote my last post in this thread, I did stop and think a little bit about the following:

Let's reconsider this text:

§ 265.20 Exemptions.

    a.  Sections  265.01,  265.02.... shall not apply to:
    ........
    3.  Possession  of  a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a 
        license therefor has been issued as provided under
        section 400.00...

If read literally, the mere fact that someone was issued a permit (of any kind) under 400.00, exempts them from 256.01. Even though 400.00 specifically states the individual is issued a license to "have and carry concealed," 265.20 seems to indicate that the mere issuance of a permit caused exemption.

I wonder if a different court considering the same case would argue that violating 400.00 means that 265.20 doesn't apply, and that the intent of 265.20 was not to give blanket exemption, but to allow for the possession of weapons only within the parameters of 400.00.

Anyway, I'm just guessing at this stuff now, I'm no lawyer by any means.

Again, thanks very much fro the research and for sharing!!

 

[CapGun]

In Bach v. Pataki, 408 F.3d 75; certiorari denied, 126 S. Ct. 1341 (2006), a non-resident challenged NY's refusal to issue permits to non-residents.

He lost on all arguments, but even if all the other arguments he lost on were still good law today, he would now have at least a chance under his second amendment argument because the court dismissed that argument with this holding:

Accordingly, we hold that the "right to keep and bear arms" does not apply against the States and affirm the district court's dismissal of Bach's Second Amendment claim.
Wow! You guys are good! Interesting point. Of course $$$ comes into the picture so I wonder if the NRA-ILA would be interested in this suit.

 

[manoffreedom]

I'm new here & from Upstate (lower part) as well, the Sherrif said that with them I passed the interview & they would forward it to the issuing judge, But in order to get a full carry unrestricted, then it's better if i write the judge a letter asking for it. did anyone here sent a letter to the judge & if so, can someone please help me out with the proper wording, so it should look proffessional.
Thanks here

 

[mjmcg]

carry interpretations

For the most part, 99.9% of the commentary is correct and accurate for carry options in NYS. The laws as written indeed are designed to indicate what you may do as opposed to what you may not do. IOW, the interpretation that the law begins by making all possession illegal then begins to cite what exceptions are granted above that. (side note: despite the common nomenclature of "pistol permit" it's actually a license, not a permit.)
I just wanted to note a few quirky points of interest pertaining to that, the least of which is not the recent rash of judges deciding to issue licenses with restrictions on them. This actually defies any sort of logic when you analyze it. Why does a person need a license to carry concealed if the only allowance for them is to "possess on premises?" And for those allowed to use a handgun for "hunting or target use only" (or the aforementioned "on premises only" versions) that in my book could be challenged as a Second Amendment violation due to the fact they are indeed limiting and denying a person the ability to exercise their God given right to defend themselves by any means they deem fit. My point being is that knowing full well that a criminal element exists in our society, restricting an individuals option to defend themselves by removing their right to "keep and bear" arms is in fact an infringement by definition. (Arguably) In essence, you can defend yourself while you're in your home, but the minute you leave it your right to defend yourself goes out the window. As far as I'm concerned (I have a non-restricted license) those with restrictions on theirs need only do the following: keep a set of shooting glasses, ear plugs and 2 rolled up targets (one with holes, one without) in their car somewhere. In the event of an inquisition, if it's questioned why you are carrying, you simply state that you are going shooting. If asked where, and inevitably you will be, you can certainly say "I haven't decided that yet." If it's night time that won't work, so you produce the target with the holes and state that you have been out shooting earlier.

Point number 2... back to the carry option allowances of the law of our fair state (choke choke) The law does in fact grant exceptions for carry above and beyond that of the default, however nowhere does it state a provision by which police officers may openly carry. It's simply not there. Therefore if the judicial system wants to split hairs, police officers are in violation of state carry laws every time they strap on their duty belts. And that goes for armored car drivers too. I guess that's why cops of old used to have those snap-flap holsters. That's about as close to concealed as they ever got.


Former state C.O. (NY, VT), private security guard, licensed armed guard, active pro-gun lobbyist, firearms instructional course author.

 

[Rocketgeezer]

Guys and Ladies, I have lived in NY for 28 years before moving south, and I can tell you from personal experiance, permit or not if you open carry anywhere in NY around a large city, or even a small one and you have any interaction with a LEO, you are in for a world of shit, weather your in the right or not, if your in the right you may get out of jail time, but it will cost you big time, it just would seem to any even semi reasonable dude, that open carry just cause you want to is just not worth it, I'm not coming up with this number for that law, or statue, or ordinance, all I am saying is keep it conncealed and avoid trouble

 

[dave f]

i was wondering if anyne knows the law reguarding a resricted to hunting and target rules, i know guys with westchester lic. which are restricted and they carry stating there allways on their way to target range, is this legal, or just not worth it

 

[nogods]

i was wondering if anyne knows the law reguarding a resricted to hunting and target rules, i know guys with westchester lic. which are restricted and they carry stating there allways on their way to target range, is this legal, or just not worth it

Generally it is a dumb idea. If the issue becomes important (e.g., you get stopped and arrested), you most likely won't be able to show that you were in fact headed to target practice.

You'll lose your permit if the circumstances make it unlikely you actually were on your way to target practice even if you have targets in your car and belong to a club with 24/hr access. Say, for example, you weren't driving in the direction of the club.

This becomes a non-issue while hiking and camping on most state forest lands because you can engage in target practice while on such lands. Thus you can always carry on such lands even with a target restricted permit. Note, however, that state parks are different. Most prohibit all weapons except for long guns during hunting season, and even then you need to obtain a permit from the particular state park.

 

[trophyhunter]

From all the Information that I have read The only time you can Open Carry in New York State is when you are Hunting or at, The Target Range even if you are Target shooting at the end of an Dirt road somewhere the weapon must be concealed when not in use. But as for all the Legalities of Open Carrying why would you want to attract the Attention to yourself. Out of Sight, Out of Mind. Thats the best Policy. The only person or, Persons that Know I Carry is my wife and, Children Even most of my Friends that I go out with Dont Know I Carry. I prefer it that way. Well, Good Luck if you decied to Open Carry

 

[nogods]

From all the Information that I have read The only time you can Open Carry in New York State is when you are Hunting or at, The Target Range even if you are Target shooting at the end of an Dirt road somewhere the weapon must be concealed when not in use. But as for all the Legalities of Open Carrying why would you want to attract the Attention to yourself. Out of Sight, Out of Mind. Thats the best Policy. The only person or, Persons that Know I Carry is my wife and, Children Even most of my Friends that I go out with Dont Know I Carry. I prefer it that way. Well, Good Luck if you decied to Open Carry

Unfortunately my attorney ID has, in bold red lettering larger than all other lettering on the id the word "FIREARM" - apparently to alert court security that I'm might be armed as I enter the courthouse. I can't take a weapon into the courthouse so possibly it is just a reminder to court security to check to be sure I'm not carrying at the time.

Whatever, I had to move the ID from it's prominent position in my wallet (where it was to facilitate quick entry through the courthouse security) to a hidden position because every time I exhibited my license to buy beer in the local grocery store the clerks' eyes got wide when they saw the adjacent attorney id with large bold red lettered "FIREARM" displayed.

 

[trophyhunter]

What does any of that Information you posted have to do with open carrying. Not being rude. But Real curious. And Why Would they put Firearm on your Attorney ID. I've never heard of that before. None of that makes any sense. I understand about the Attorney ID But, Firearm on it??? When I go to the County Building (Court) Im always Armed. I notify The Sheriff at The desk and he secures my weapon while Im doing my Business. Please dont take offense I'm more Curious than anything. Its Confusing

 

[nogods]

What does any of that Information you posted have to do with open carrying. Not being rude. But Real curious. And Why Would they put Firearm on your Attorney ID. I've never heard of that before. None of that makes any sense. I understand about the Attorney ID But, Firearm on it??? When I go to the County Building (Court) Im always Armed. I notify The Sheriff at The desk and he secures my weapon while Im doing my Business. Please dont take offense I'm more Curious than anything. Its Confusing

it was a response to your post:

"But as for all the Legalities of Open Carrying why would you want to attract the Attention to yourself. Out of Sight, Out of Mind. Thats the best Policy. The only person or, Persons that Know I Carry is my wife and, Children Even most of my Friends that I go out with Dont Know I Carry."

I was actually agreeing with your point but pointing out that I had been unknowingly publishing my carry status by having my Attorney ID placed in my wallet where it was displayed when I displayed my license to purchase alcohol (most stores now require age id of everyone to avoid the sever penalties of making a mistake, even if the customer is obviously over 50 - it's a simple rule, no id, no beer.)

As for your other questions I don't know the purpose for the "FIREARM" designation on the Attorney ID. All attorneys need to exhibit their pistol permit 9if the have one) to get the secure pass id, but I didn't think they were putting a designation on the ID itself. I never closely examined the ID. I just stuck it in a spot next to my license so it would be quick and easy to exhibit when I was using it to enter a courthouse.

Then one day a clerk in a store asked if I had my gun with me and when I asked what he was talking about he pointed out the "FIREARM" designation on the ID.