Why Cycle Defense Ammo ?

[indyyy]

Just Curious - many say they like to cycle their defense ammo (hollow point) every 6 months or so.

I've been googling how long ammo will last and have found folks who say they're shooting WW2 ammo and it still works fine, and that if kept dry ammo will last indefinitely. So what's the point of cycling the hollow points since they're so much more expensive than full metal jacket?

With all the talk of terrorists coming thru our borders (as well as our own government turning on us one day) , gradually building a stockpile of thousands of rounds may not be a bad idea, while a hundred or so would be enough for self defense / home defense in normal times.

 

[Eidolon]

Just Curious - many say they like to cycle their defense ammo (hollow point) every 6 months or so.

I've been googling how long ammo will last and have found folks who say they're shooting WW2 ammo and it still works fine, and that if kept dry ammo will l indefinitely. So what's the point of cycling the hollow points since they're so much more expensive than full metal jacket?

With all the talk of terrorists coming thru our borders (as well as our own government turning on us one day) , gradually building a stockpile of thousands of rounds may not be a bad idea, while a hundred or so would be enough for self defense / home defense in normal times.

The reason people suggest it is because cycling ammunition through the chamber (as in reloading the same rounds over and over again) can lead to set back, which can lead to an over pressure round, which can lead to what is commonly referred to as a “KaBOOM!!!”

When I unload my defense ammunition I rotate the round in the chamber to the bottom of the magazine the second time I load it I fire off that magazine’s worth of ammunition and buy more.

 

[sdprof]

For me, shooting out the rounds I've been carrying a while gives me an opportunity to validate that that chosen ammo functions well in my gun. And if a few rounds have been getting rechambered because of gun being unloaded and reloaded, it gets rid of any that might be getting set back a bit, before they become a problem.

And hey, any excuse to shoot is a good one, right?

 

[indyyy]

I thought 'cycling' meant shooting the older ammo and replacing with newer ammo. I wasn't aware of the practice of cycling the ammo that's in the chamber to the bottom of the magazine when unloading and reloading the magazine.

I generally use full metal jacket at the range and have hollow point for self / home defense which I'm sure most of you do. And, of course, hollow point is much more expensive so it's nice to be able to use fmj's for target practice.

So, this brings up another question, and I don't really feel like starting a new thread. Is the idea of cycling (the ammo in the magazine) for semi auto's only since
revolvers don't have magazines? I have one revolver and one semi auto and am gradually learning I have to treat the two differently.

 

[mudshark100]

While you may keep ammo dry and in great condition in an ammo can in your closet, the ammo in your pistol will see more extreme conditions: high humidity on rainy days, sweat, high/low temperatures in the glove compartment of your car, and as mentioned by others, potential setback if you load/unload the chamber frequently. I cycle my defense rounds every 6 months.

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

Most people do it just because it's the tacti-cool thing to do, like the exaggerated 'head on a swivel' after shooting on the range, or wearing 'shoot me first' vests on their weekly trip to Wally-World.

I use quality rounds with a cannelure encircling the bullet, I've never suffered setback even after months if not years of repeated chamberings.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

What ^^^^^^^^^ said.

Some Mall Ninja posted on the 'Net that you have to replace or "cycle" you ammo and a lot of people fell for it.

Heck, I have some SD ammo that's over 20 years old and I still carry it. I just as fast over a chronograph today as it was in 1992.

Paul

 

[NotTwoShure]

Great thread and issues I have questioned. I recently obtained a side by side shot gun. Now, I know this thread is in regards to handguns, I think, but I had some 37 year old bird shot that had been in the hot Arizona sun in a shed, in an ammo can in a safe. This was subjected to 120+ degree heat and minus 0 cold. Not a problem. I have old .357 reloads that are as old and they have worked pretty good. All of the "Experts" I have discussed this with give about the same response that the ammo would loose some power. I think the best advice has been listed here. For S.D. loads I like the posts suggesting 6 months. I shall keep this thread in my sights to see other ideas.

 

[gunnerbob]

Most people do it just because it's the tacti-cool thing to do, like the exaggerated 'head on a swivel' after shooting on the range, or wearing 'shoot me first' vests on their weekly trip to Wally-World.

I use quality rounds with a cannelure encircling the bullet, I've never suffered setback even after months if not years of repeated chamberings.

So... you're basing your opinion of others who don't chamber the same round repeatedly, on your experiences only, and insult them while you do it? Bullet set-back does happen, perhaps not to you but, it does happen. Tightness of the crimp, angle of the feed ramp and strength of the recoil spring can all play a role in setting a round back in it's case. What exactly is an "exaggerated" head on a swivel? Are you saying it's not a good thing to examine your surroundings during a gunfight? Or, are you saying it's not a good thing to reinforce the muscle memory by doing it while training? Also, what is a "shoot me first" vest? Like a concealed carry vest, the ones used in IDPA?

You're attempt(?) at sarcasm has left you looking ignorant, my friend.

 

[Eidolon]

Most people do it just because it's the tacti-cool thing to do .... I use quality rounds with a cannelure encircling the bullet, I've never suffered setback even after months if not years of repeated chamberings.

A round that has been setback due to repeated chambering causing an over pressure round is a real and legitimate danger. If that danger can be mitigated by the simple expedient of replacing the rounds every so often why wouldn’t you take the steps to mitigate the risk? Is your ammunition budget that strapped that you can’t afford a box or two of SD ammunition once or twice a year?

like the exaggerated 'head on a swivel' after shooting on the range, or wearing 'shoot me first' vests on their weekly trip to Wally-World.

I can’t speak to the tacticool clothing but if you had any actual training at all you’d know that the purpose of that exaggerated “head on a swivel” after shooting at the range is break the tunnel vision people tend to get on the two way range. My trainer has been known to stand behind people going through a course of fire with so many fingers up on his hand and if you can't tell him afterward how many he had up you fail that course

 

[Eidolon]

So, this brings up another question, and I don't really feel like starting a new thread. Is the idea of cycling (the ammo in the magazine) for semi auto's only since
revolvers don't have magazines? I have one revolver and one semi auto and am gradually learning I have to treat the two differently.

Revolvers don't slam the round into the feed ramp when they chamber it

 

[indyyy]

A round that has been setback due to repeated chambering causing an over pressure round is a real and legitimate danger. If that danger can be mitigated by the simple expedient of replacing the rounds every so often why wouldn’t you take the steps to mitigate the risk? Is your ammunition budget that strapped that you can’t afford a box or two of SD ammunition once or twice a year?

If I'm understanding it right, what you guys mean by 'cycling' the SD round is just removing the round that is in the chamber when I switch from SD mag to range mag (or hollow point mag to full metal jacket mag). I can then take that one bullet that was in the chamber and put it in the mag to shoot at the range. Is that it? This means I would shoot 1 SD bullet each time I went to the range.

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

So... you're basing your opinion of others who don't chamber the same round repeatedly, on your experiences only, and insult them while you do it? Bullet set-back does happen, perhaps not to you but, it does happen. Tightness of the crimp, angle of the feed ramp and strength of the recoil spring can all play a role in setting a round back in it's case. What exactly is an "exaggerated" head on a swivel? Are you saying it's not a good thing to examine your surroundings during a gunfight? Or, are you saying it's not a good thing to reinforce the muscle memory by doing it while training? Also, what is a "shoot me first" vest? Like a concealed carry vest, the ones used in IDPA?


You're attempt(?) at sarcasm has left you looking ignorant, my friend.

First, let me thank you for identifying the garment as an "IDPA vest" you make it obvious that it's almost the accepted 'uniform' of a shooting sport. It's NOT a garment that the public at large wears on a normal day.
The first time you see a guy on a 98-degree day, dressed in bare feet with TEVA's, short pants, short sleeve tee-shirt and wearing one of those vests, you'll know what I mean. Scooter, y'ain't fooling nobody except those that don't need to be fooled. Second only to that are the guys that parade around in khaki 5.11 trousers (another easily spotted non-uniform 'uniform' with instructor belts and vests to match.

This... is much, much less noticeable all around then any vest.
Link Removed
I wish I could find it again, it was three guys with those same vests standing in front of a tobacconist's in the city, such low speed operators that stuck out like sore thumbs.

Secondly, you may have noted my emphasis on an exaggerated 'head on a swivel', I'm referring to the comical actions exemplified in the video linked below, not to having an awareness of your surroundings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T0fDjWKQokM#t=180

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

A round that has been setback due to repeated chambering causing an over pressure round is a real and legitimate danger. If that danger can be mitigated by the simple expedient of replacing the rounds every so often why wouldn’t you take the steps to mitigate the risk? Is your ammunition budget that strapped that you can’t afford a box or two of SD ammunition once or twice a year?

The fact that I insist on cannelured cases for my self defense ammunition speaks to how real I take the danger. Yes, it's a possibility, and yes, I used to check my ammunition regularly for it. I gave up after a few years when the ammunition I chose never experiences noticeable setback.

Since I get my self defense ammo at a fairly severe discount, why would the cost be a concern to me?

I can’t speak to the tacticool clothing but if you had any actual training at all you’d know that the purpose of that exaggerated “head on a swivel” after shooting at the range is break the tunnel vision people tend to get on the two way range. My trainer has been known to stand behind people going through a course of fire with so many fingers up on his hand and if you can't tell him afterward how many he had up you fail that course

I may have taken a course or two, but I'd wager dollars to silver certificates that most people I see on the range haven't. They're doing it because it's what they saw the kook-kids do, and they want to imitate it, just like they think PGO shotguns should be shot whilst aiming down the barrels or that duel-wielding[sic*] two handguns is the way to do it.


*[sic]-inserted immediately after a quoted word or passage, indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an error of transcription. In this case it represents all the internet wonderkind who think WoW or COD imitates real life.

 

[Eidolon]

If I'm understanding it right, what you guys mean by 'cycling' the SD round is just removing the round that is in the chamber when I switch from SD mag to range mag (or hollow point mag to full metal jacket mag). I can then take that one bullet that was in the chamber and put it in the mag to shoot at the range. Is that it? This means I would shoot 1 SD bullet each time I went to the range.

When I say "cycle" I mean the round is chambered when you load it and then extracted when you clear the chamber. every time you chamber a round the recoil spring slams it into the feed ramb and into the chamber. Over time this can push the actuall bullet back into the the cartridge caesand cause the powder to develop more pressure than the designer intended when the round is fired. If the pressure gets high enough it can blow up your gun

You could do that but you'll end up buying new sooner

 

[gunnerbob]

First, let me thank you for identifying the garment as an "IDPA vest" you make it obvious that it's almost the accepted 'uniform' of a shooting sport. It's NOT a garment that the public at large wears on a normal day.
The first time you see a guy on a 98-degree day, dressed in bare feet with TEVA's, short pants, short sleeve tee-shirt and wearing one of those vests, you'll know what I mean. Scooter, y'ain't fooling nobody except those that don't need to be fooled. Second only to that are the guys that parade around in khaki 5.11 trousers (another easily spotted non-uniform 'uniform' with instructor belts and vests to match.

This... is much, much less noticeable all around then any vest.
Link Removed
I wish I could find it again, it was three guys with those same vests standing in front of a tobacconist's in the city, such low speed operators that stuck out like sore thumbs.

Secondly, you may have noted my emphasis on an exaggerated 'head on a swivel', I'm referring to the comical actions exemplified in the video linked below, not to having an awareness of your surroundings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T0fDjWKQokM#t=180

Well, first of all, I don't care what other people wear... maybe you do? I do understand what/who you're talking about but have to wonder, will the "bad guy" know what that particular dress may indicate? I personally don't wear 5.11s but I do usually wear Wrangler Rip-Stop cargo pants in Earth-tones, usually (not always) with an Earth-toned button-up. What's this say about me? My clothes are comfortable, functional and allow me to have the appropriate style of dress for the very rare possibility of entering into a gunfight, the more likely scenario of going hiking, camping or grocery shopping. My point is, who cares what another wears and the reasons they wear it? Why would you jump to conclusions about people you don't know and have no clue as to the their skill level? I dress the way I do b/c it works, it also happens to be the same dress for many LEOs, current and prior service members I train with... Are all these people "mall ninjas" or trying to be "tacticool"? Or, are they simply professionals in their particular field and dress accordingly?

Lastly, the video you posted... I've never seen before and I will say that I personally don't "search and asses" in that manner while doing handgun drills. I do however search the entire area around me and I don't understand any argument against it.

 

[Eidolon]

Since I get my self defense ammo at a fairly severe discount, why would the cost be a concern to me?

Then why do you care if , when or why someone purchases new SD ammunition?

 

[Eidolon]

*[sic]-inserted immediately after a quoted word or passage, indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous or archaic spelling, surprising assertion, faulty reasoning, or other matter that might otherwise be taken as an error of transcription. In this case it represents all the internet wonderkind who think WoW or COD imitates real life.

I don’t know if this is intentional (I suspect it is) but you come off like everyone in the world that carries a gun except you is an unqualified mall ninja. It might surprise you to learn that there are people here with more training and experience than you.

 

[RJT CCW]

I thought 'cycling' meant shooting the older ammo and replacing with newer ammo. I wasn't aware of the practice of cycling the ammo that's in the chamber to the bottom of the magazine when unloading and reloading the magazine.

I generally use full metal jacket at the range and have hollow point for self / home defense which I'm sure most of you do. And, of course, hollow point is much more expensive so it's nice to be able to use fmj's for target practice.

So, this brings up another question, and I don't really feel like starting a new thread. Is the idea of cycling (the ammo in the magazine) for semi auto's only since
revolvers don't have magazines? I have one revolver and one semi auto and am gradually learning I have to treat the two differently.

Cycling generally means to replace old ammo with new. Think of it this way. You wear your gun daily and it gets sweat, dirt, lint, dead skin cells, etc. on it. You clean your gun, right? How often? So do you unload the gun when you clean it? If so you are cycling the ammo.

Additional questions for you. Are you practicing with your self defense ammo? Do you know that it functions properly in your gun? It is important that you know for sure. You do not want to find out when you need the gun the most.

 

[indyyy]

Cycling generally means to replace old ammo with new. Think of it this way. You wear your gun daily and it gets sweat, dirt, lint, dead skin cells, etc. on it. You clean your gun, right? How often? So do you unload the gun when you clean it? If so you are cycling the ammo.

Additional questions for you. Are you practicing with your self defense ammo? Do you know that it functions properly in your gun? It is important that you know for sure. You do not want to find out when you need the gun the most.

I generally shoot fmj at the range and have hollow pt. for defense, but I do shoot defense rounds at the range now and then to be sure they work in the gun.

As far as carrying I use a concealed fanny pack with a zipper. I'm sure the gun gets some dirt, lint, sweat, etc. on it, but probably far less than if carried in a holster or pocket.

I clean my guns when I come back from the range which at this point is about twice a month. I go to an outdoor range that local LEO train at during the week. It closes from Dec thru March when it's cold up here, so I'll either have to go to an indoor range or take a 3 month break.

The fmj obviously get cycled, this thread is mainly for SD ammo which doesn't get used as much. I'm 60 years old and so far in my life there have only been 2 times when I was robbed and a gun would have come in handy- so there's a good chance the SD ammo will never get used.

I think my main question has been pretty well answered in this thread. I'd like to gradually build up an inventory of SD ammo in case all hell breaks loose in this country like some think will happen (you know - the terrorists start doing car bombings here and the gov't decides to turn the US into a police state where all us citizens are enemies, etc.). There's probably a good chance all this doesn't happen in my lifetime, but it's good to be prepared.

Which brings up another question any of you can feel free to answer - from what I know, the military uses full metal jacket ammo and not hollow point. And police and us citizens use hollow point because it's safer in the home and for innocent bystanders. So, if Armageddon decided to happen tomorrow - I suppose full metal jacket ammo would do as well as hollow point for defense / offense - no ?