JCliff
New member
Concise thinking in a short article by David French. Link to article in NRO.
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Why People Carry Guns: A Response to David Frum | National Review Online
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Why People Carry Guns: A Response to David Frum | National Review Online
Why Carry?
- Thread starter JCliff
- Start date
wolf_fire
New member
The statement that firearm carriers carry to protect one's self, one's family, one's friends, and one's fellow man does not necessitate the protection of all the above choices. However, I'm sure that you carry to protect at least one of those choices, as I would think all firearm carriers carry to protect at least one's self. Therefore, the statement is valid without requiring all carriers to be the proverbial "sheepdog". However, when you include all firearm carriers, all the above choices do become protected since there are sheepdogs among the carrying class, just not all firearm carriers will protect all the choices.
I'm hoping my reply is clear. If not, please ask.
Jay
New member
The original author is unknown to me....
1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.
2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheroes. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.
3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.
4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.
5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply lying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.
6. We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.
7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.
8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe "gun free zones". If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.
9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.
10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.
1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first.
2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheroes. We aren't hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided.
3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or "rage" incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want.
4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.
5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply lying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own.
6. We do not believe in the concept of "accidental discharges". There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun "going off" was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America.
7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it's very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like "there's a guy running around in the store with a gun" or even simply "I saw a man with a gun in the store" could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident.
8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe "gun free zones". If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.
9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases.
10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe "gun free zones". Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.
Stengun
New member
Howdy,
I live in crime free rural Arkansas and I carry, but not for personal protection or because I "think" I'm a sheepdog that has to protect the sheeple, I carry because I:
A.) Want to.
B.) Because the USC and the State of Arkansas says I can.
C.) What's the old saying? Drum roll, PLEEEAASSEE!!! "Because a cop is too heavy to carry!"
I've been carrying for over 32 years and have lived in Chicago, Dallas, Orlando, the Seattle-Tacoma area, Little Rock ( back in the mid to late 90's when it was the murder capital of the USA ) and have NEVER had to use a gun as a civilian except in situations that I either:
1.) Could have avoided.
2.) Or that I escalated by my actions.
Paul
I live in crime free rural Arkansas and I carry, but not for personal protection or because I "think" I'm a sheepdog that has to protect the sheeple, I carry because I:
A.) Want to.
B.) Because the USC and the State of Arkansas says I can.
C.) What's the old saying? Drum roll, PLEEEAASSEE!!! "Because a cop is too heavy to carry!"
I've been carrying for over 32 years and have lived in Chicago, Dallas, Orlando, the Seattle-Tacoma area, Little Rock ( back in the mid to late 90's when it was the murder capital of the USA ) and have NEVER had to use a gun as a civilian except in situations that I either:
1.) Could have avoided.
2.) Or that I escalated by my actions.
Paul
telpinaro
New member
I actually view myself as my horse rather than a sheepdog. She's the sweetest girl... loves having my son ride her even though she's lame (he's small enough the extra weight doesn't hurt her), and once she had a baby that had to be put down (we were all devastated--she was basically poisoned). She's very kind and gentle... but it's because of her I'm not worried about any coyotes, stray dogs, or even rattlesnakes. Anything that could have been the thing that took her baby, she will kill. Even though she's past her prime, she's still very capable and she'll still take off after any dog, no matter what size, and she once pounded a rattlesnake flat. Luckily I don't have to worry about anything larger here, but I wouldn't be surprised to see her go after a mountain lion... Thank goodness it'd take a desperate one to target a horse when there are tons of cats, dogs, and llamas around.
I'm nice, I'll be a member of the herd (albeit a more aware one)... until you try to hurt my family.
I'm nice, I'll be a member of the herd (albeit a more aware one)... until you try to hurt my family.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
DITTO. :agree:
RobbK
Aint afraid of no ghost
wolf_fire
New member
wolf_fire
New member
To Jay:
I wish I could say all gun owners were like what you mentioned in 1-3, 5-6, 8, and 10. Unfortunately, I've met a few who are not.
But you ignored a large group of very responsible firearms owners, the open carry crowd. Personally, I do not open carry, yet. However, I do see the benefits of an open carrier. The open carrier will more than likely deter a crime before it actually happens by his mere presence. A criminal will not be deterred by something he does not see, only by something he does see. An open carrier will be more vigilant to keep a situation from escalating because all his cards on the table. I've never met an impolite open carrier. I have met many impolite and brash concealed carriers.
Also, in #4, is it not possible that a responsible gun owner teaches his children about the safety of guns at an early age so that responsible gun owner doesn't have to lock up everything in the house when his children are around? I know of many responsible gun owners who trust their children that they will be as safe or safer than them self because of how they raised and taught their children. To say that ONLY a responsible gun owner locks up his firearms is also saying that the other person is not responsible. I disagree. I believe it is safer to teach our children about firearm safety than to lock them up and not teach the child. Power tools can be just as deadly, but I've never heard of someone say that only responsible owners of power tools keep them locked up so children can't get to them. "Accidental" shootings due to unlocked firearms actually have been the result of children's deaths less than "accidental" pool drownings by a large margin.
I have my safe to prevent my firearms from being stolen from burglars and to protect them in the unfortunate event of a house fire. Children's safety comes from teaching them, raising them well, and locking them when I'm not around.
I wish I could say all gun owners were like what you mentioned in 1-3, 5-6, 8, and 10. Unfortunately, I've met a few who are not.
But you ignored a large group of very responsible firearms owners, the open carry crowd. Personally, I do not open carry, yet. However, I do see the benefits of an open carrier. The open carrier will more than likely deter a crime before it actually happens by his mere presence. A criminal will not be deterred by something he does not see, only by something he does see. An open carrier will be more vigilant to keep a situation from escalating because all his cards on the table. I've never met an impolite open carrier. I have met many impolite and brash concealed carriers.
Also, in #4, is it not possible that a responsible gun owner teaches his children about the safety of guns at an early age so that responsible gun owner doesn't have to lock up everything in the house when his children are around? I know of many responsible gun owners who trust their children that they will be as safe or safer than them self because of how they raised and taught their children. To say that ONLY a responsible gun owner locks up his firearms is also saying that the other person is not responsible. I disagree. I believe it is safer to teach our children about firearm safety than to lock them up and not teach the child. Power tools can be just as deadly, but I've never heard of someone say that only responsible owners of power tools keep them locked up so children can't get to them. "Accidental" shootings due to unlocked firearms actually have been the result of children's deaths less than "accidental" pool drownings by a large margin.
I have my safe to prevent my firearms from being stolen from burglars and to protect them in the unfortunate event of a house fire. Children's safety comes from teaching them, raising them well, and locking them when I'm not around.
Jay
New member
wolf_fire....
Sir, first off, as I indicated, I'm not the original author of those points, thus, I did not alter them. Second, all due respect, but the thread subject (unless I'm mistaken) wasn't mode of carry, rather "why" carry. I have met impolite open carriers, but again, that's not the subject. Open carry or concealed carry is completely personal preference, just like "1911 or Glock"
I would offer that more than open carry, being obviously aware of one's surroundings, would be a better crime deterrent.
Who do assailants choose to attack? Whom did they choose as victims? Post-incarceration interviews have revealed that gender, size, and age were surprisingly not the keys. Instead, they looked for people who shuffled along, head down, avoiding eye contact, unaware of their surroundings (Condition White). In contrast, they avoided choosing people, even small females, if they were alert, confident, head up, and looked like they knew what was going on around them (Condition Yellow). Remember what he really wants. He wants to get to you, get what he wants from you, and get away from you, without being hurt or caught.
more, if interested.... It's Tactical: Don't Open Carry. True Story? | The Truth About Guns
Sir, first off, as I indicated, I'm not the original author of those points, thus, I did not alter them. Second, all due respect, but the thread subject (unless I'm mistaken) wasn't mode of carry, rather "why" carry. I have met impolite open carriers, but again, that's not the subject. Open carry or concealed carry is completely personal preference, just like "1911 or Glock"
I would offer that more than open carry, being obviously aware of one's surroundings, would be a better crime deterrent.
Who do assailants choose to attack? Whom did they choose as victims? Post-incarceration interviews have revealed that gender, size, and age were surprisingly not the keys. Instead, they looked for people who shuffled along, head down, avoiding eye contact, unaware of their surroundings (Condition White). In contrast, they avoided choosing people, even small females, if they were alert, confident, head up, and looked like they knew what was going on around them (Condition Yellow). Remember what he really wants. He wants to get to you, get what he wants from you, and get away from you, without being hurt or caught.
more, if interested.... It's Tactical: Don't Open Carry. True Story? | The Truth About Guns
wolf_fire
New member
My only point in writing what I did is that the points that you posted (regardless of the author) honed in specifically on the concealed carrier and completely neglected the open carrier.
I agree about situational awareness. The most effective weapon anyone can take with them is not a firearm, it is their brain. Stay alert, scan always, be aware of your surroundings. These are things anyone can do regardless if they are carrying.
2
2Awarrior
Guest
When asked why I carry, I usually try to keep it to this -
I carry water and tools in my car, a licensed PX4 pistol in my waistband holster, I make sure all the smoke detectors in my home are labeled with the current battery's expiration date, and I stay on top of all my family's auto maintenance. Additionally, I make sure my auxiliary home generator is always fueled and ready to power the heat and refrigerators in my home in the event of a power failure.
I do all these things, every one, for precisely the same reason: as a man, it is my obligation to those around me to maintain myself in a reasonable state of preparedness.
And yet to many folks, the tools and the smoke detectors and generator identify me as prepared and prudent, but for some reason the pistol makes me Rambo, lost inside my "hero thing".
I carry water and tools in my car, a licensed PX4 pistol in my waistband holster, I make sure all the smoke detectors in my home are labeled with the current battery's expiration date, and I stay on top of all my family's auto maintenance. Additionally, I make sure my auxiliary home generator is always fueled and ready to power the heat and refrigerators in my home in the event of a power failure.
I do all these things, every one, for precisely the same reason: as a man, it is my obligation to those around me to maintain myself in a reasonable state of preparedness.
And yet to many folks, the tools and the smoke detectors and generator identify me as prepared and prudent, but for some reason the pistol makes me Rambo, lost inside my "hero thing".
NotTwoShure
Well-known member
Since I live in a small town in Arizona, not too small we have a China_Mart (Walmart), I have not been asked but I have a few thoughts always, I think I shall say "To return fire". As I have said in other posts in Arizona if asked about carry it would often times be such as Hey, what brand it that or hey, what do you feed her? Also, many other over used phrases.
Ringo
A WATCHMAN
When asked, I tell them, "Because I believe it's every citizens duty to stand firm and fight crime". Most will then ask, how is my carrying a gun fighting crime? I then reply, "I shoot back".
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
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