Being armed, as we know, is a huge responsibility. At no time while armed can I assume an offensive position. At no time while armed can I escalate a situation/altercation.
From everything I've read the shooter really messed up.
Martin's dad and dad's fiancee lived in the complex.
SGB, you're right - it doesn't clear up who assaulted whom. But it sure gives some idea as to who was following whom, and who challenged first. Extrapolating from what Martin's girlfriend said, we can assume Zimmerman wasn't wearing any identification, making him just a big maybe scary-looking guy who started following a kid.
And why isn't the HOA backing Zimmerman? They've been strangely quiet about the whole neighborhood watch thing.
The guy over step the right to self defense claim when he was told to back off and didnt
This is stated over and over and over without any shred of supporting documentation, further under Florida law it's just flat out inaccurate. It's easy to mimic, heck even birds can do it.
I'm not so sure this is private property. If this was a gated community who owns the street? Can any person make a claim to own it? If it is owned by the homeowners association did they formally appoint Zimmerman? No, he was "self-appointed." Was Zimmerman a licensed guard? Was he trained? Did he wear a uniform? Did he present identification to the kid? I think all of this comes into play as the kid may have reacted differently. He clearly can't follow someone on or off MY property even if I live in that gated community. Are my guests subject to being followed on my property by a self-appointed neighborhood watch? Are my guests at risk? Am I culpable too if I know this mutt is following everyone around and fail to stop it?Actually, Bob, if the neighborhood watch was sanctioned by the homeowners association (i.e. the owners of the private property that Martin was on) which I'm sure it was, Zimmerman was entirely in his rights to confront someone just as you would be within your rights to confront someone on your property.
I'm not so sure this is private property. If this was a gated community who owns the street? Can any person make a claim to own it? If it is owned by the homeowners association did they formally appoint Zimmerman? No, he was "self-appointed." Was Zimmerman a licensed guard? Was he trained? Did he wear a uniform? Did he present identification to the kid? I think all of this comes into play as the kid may have reacted differently. He clearly can't follow someone on or off MY property even if I live in that gated community. Are my guests subject to being followed on my property by a self-appointed neighborhood watch? Are my guests at risk? Am I culpable too if I know this mutt is following everyone around and fail to stop it?
Documentation is the recorded 911 call where he was told not to follow the kid. If he had stopped his pursuit there would not have been a shooting. Stand your ground does mean pursuit until the other person's fight or flight instinct kicks in.
Romans 8:37
Consider this... if I live in that gated community and I don't want Zimmerman on my property then he may not trespass. The HOA cannot give him permission to be in my yard. He may not pursue someone on my property without my permission. Now where did the shooting occur? Was it in the road or in someone's yard? Was he approved by the HOA? Even if he was it does not supercede the rights of the deeded property owner. There's not enough known. I'm betting he gets indicted. In any event, he'll never be able to go home again... people need to think about that when they get involved in an altercation. Even if you are 100% right it will ruin your life.Gated communities are private property. You can't just throw up a gate on a public street. The HOA (i.e. the community) is responsible for maintinence (inc. streets) just as you would be responsible for maintaining your property. Laws still apply of course but it's still considered private property and the legal residents have all the associated rights that are attached to private property. So long as Zimmerman was there with the blessing of the HOA (and if he's a resident then he doesn't even need that) then he has every right to question someone on that property. He doesn't need a badge, uniform, or special training. That doesn't excuse any subsequent aggressiveness/escalation on his part but it does give him certain legal rights. It's no different than if my neighbor went away and asked my to keep an eye on his house. I would have every right to confront and question someone that was snooping around if I chose to....."Can I help you with something??".
That was my question. Does the HOA own it or is it owned by the developer or management company, merely granting right-of-way to the HOA and/or residents? These answers are absolutely relevent. My bet is that he gets indicted.In condos, typically doesn't the HOA own the yard? Or at least up to a certain distance from the structure?
Perhaps the Feds are considering a civil rights violation as well.Sanford PD, by not taking some sort of direct action and stating immediately that Mr. Zimmerman was covered by Castle Doctrine, have left the door open for the Feds. The decision of right or wrong here should have been verified higher up the legal chain, for legitimacy's sake.
Feds being in it will mean Federal Court. This could mean appeal and case law action in Federal District Court as to legitimacy of Florida SD law in light of Public safety.
Reversing Florida Law will not violate 2nd Amendment rights. but it could mean that Florida may have to rewrite the law and get it back through the legislative process.
The more the media push this as a "Legal Right to Murder" law, the more likely that legislature will linger long in the law-making process. Short version: Florida law could get reversed and a new law could be long in the coming. In short, Floridia residents could end up without an effective SD law for a while. That will probably have some effect on their carry privileges also.
I don't know what happened or what Mr. Zimmerman's thought processes were. But he has, through his actions, opened a very nasty can of worms for Florida.
Consider this... if I live in that gated community and I don't want Zimmerman on my property then he may not trespass. The HOA cannot give him permission to be in my yard. He may not pursue someone on my property without my permission. Now where did the shooting occur? Was it in the road or in someone's yard? Was he approved by the HOA? Even if he was it does not supercede the rights of the deeded property owner. There's not enough known. I'm betting he gets indicted. In any event, he'll never be able to go home again... people need to think about that when they get involved in an altercation. Even if you are 100% right it will ruin your life.
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