What would you say to a restaurant with a "No Gun's" sign?

[Beau]

Is this crap the best you people can come up with?
Ive debated teenagers who seemed brighter.
LOL I knew that post would get you going.

So by your asinine reasoning if someone walks in YOUR front door against YOUR wishes and instruction then YOUR rights havent been violated?

Different situation. My home isn't open to the general public. If it was and I had a sign up stating "No Shoes" and someone walks on the carpet with shoes on, no my rights have not been violated. My rules have. I would ask them to remove their shoes or leave.


yeah...right.
If that happened youd be in here bitching like a spanked child how youd been violated and you know it.

You presume to know my reacttions and you're name calling again. You are quick to call a lot of people unstabe yet you can't post two sentences without directly insulting someone or calling them names. Which one of us do you think would be perceived as unstable?

The PROPERTY OWNER has the RIGHT to demand that you NOT carry a damned gun onto the property THEY lease or own.
Yes, you VIOLATE their rights on their property by bringing your gun anyway.
If it werent a violating of any sort then please tell us why even the more easy going states say you are trespassing once youve been asked to leave????
If it WERENT any sort of violation then there would be ZERO recourse for your ignoring their request.
Wow. You still don't get it.
YES the property owner has the right to make rules regarding acceptable activity on their property.
NO breaking their rules does not violate their rights it violates their RULES.

YES refusing to leave does violate their RIGHT to refuse service to anyone. There is a law against refusing to leave if asked. There is not a law against breaking a business owners rules.

Easy enough?
OR do I need to get my 5 year old grandson and a crayon to help you figure all this out?

There you go with the insults again. And you call me unstable.

There was a sign that asked you NOT to enter to begin with..which you clearly would have IGNORED. And you expect us to believe you have some decency about you that would make you honor a VERBAL request now?
Sorry, not buying it.
Youre a rule breaker to the core.

That's me. I'm just a Bad Boy.
Your statement is false though. Will I break a rule if I feel it is in the best interests of my and my family's safety? You bet.
Do I go around intentionaly breaking every rule I come across. Not at all.
I guess it's hard for your to understand because you've never intentionaly broken a rule in your life.



For one thing youre doing just what I said and exaggerating in a vain effort to justify your complete DISREGARD for the rights of others.
This is about GUNS...you know...LETHAL WEAPONS, not four letter words.

So now we can differentiate between what rules are important and which ones are not. Thank you for at least acknowledging that fact.
I don't care if it's a no guns sign or a no food or drink sign. A rule is a rule. Breaking either one of those does not violate a business owners rights. It violates their rules. The difference is following one means I might get thirsty. Following the other means if a situation arises where my life is in danger I will not have a suitable means to defend myself.


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[trailboss]

so I would guess you all never go over the speed limit either :no:

 

[EminenceFrontman]

Ignore Them!

Businesses can post whatever they want, but unless it is specifically a prohibited location (ie a police station,) their signs are meaningless. At most you can be asked to leave and possibly face a trespassing charge. Your state may be different but here in FL I see these signs all the time and simply ignore them. The state decides where you can carry, not Jack-in-the-Box.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

Discussion continued here;
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/17186-ignoring-gun-buster-signage.html
.

 

[Ruger357SP101]

so I would guess you all never go over the speed limit either :no:

thats right, I dont.
I drive UNDER the speed LIMIT as much as possible.

Discussion continued here;
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/concealed-carry-discussion/17186-ignoring-gun-buster-signage.html
.

 

[kermudyun]

No Guns SIgn at business establishment

All states have a specific and approved sign (by the legislature) that is supposed to be posted on the face of the establishment. Many business post any sign they want but unless it is an approved sign, it doesn't stand as a valid warning, at least in my state and other but you will need to check this out to be sure. In sc, the sign is an 8x11 sign with a pic of a semi-auto pistol inside a red circle with a red line struck through the circle. Any other pic is not valid and will not stand legally. I see pics of similar signs with revolvers, just the statement itself and even pics of a rifle. I am told by an attorney and a LEO that any pic but the approved one is considered not a proper warning but...the intent of the owner of the business is clear so avoiding such is probably a prudent idea.
I hope this helps!

 

[Treo]

All states have a specific and approved sign (by the legislature) that is supposed to be posted on the face of the establishment.

Fail , Colorado has no such "specific and approved" sign

 

[nvstorm]

Hmmm

I'd probably look for a new "favorite restaurant", HOWEVER, I take my personal safety and that of my loved ones more seriously than I do a sign I might, or might not, have noticed as I walked into a place I have been many times before. If you are carrying properly (discreetly) you'll not offend the sensitive. IF things get nasty/ugly.....as long as you keep your rounds in the 10 ring on the nasty/ugly crowd,or better still convince them that their business is better conducted in a SAFER (for them) place....... I'd be thinking the worst thing that's going to happen is you'll be asked to take your business (and firearm) elsewhere.....
Check your local statutes though, some insist that we pay attention to such narrow minded foolishness.

 

[Shootinjh]

Shirtless barefoot people have been facing this challenge for years. I very much respect property rights, and I agree with the posts suggesting that customers can share their preferences with shopkeepers ... if packing a gun or being barefoot is important enough ... I agree that one might choose to eat elsewhere.

I certainly would never condone having "Victim Disarmament Zone" stickers made up and then discreetely posting them beside existing signs. This would be illegal.
Link Removed

 

[Beau]

I certainly would never condone having "Victim Disarmament Zone" stickers made up and then discreetely posting them beside existing signs. This would be illegal.

What would make it illegal? The only thing I can think of would be a defacing property charge if a sticker was actually stuck to a surface.

 

[Felix]

Is there a high-resolution version of this gif file available? I'd like to remove the "Enjoy" part on the bottom and print up some on business cards to have available for passing out in places which have "no weapons" signs displayed but which I can't avoid entering.

Link Removed

 

[pmb61]

Easy, " Good-bye"

 

[rforgy]

In Colorado, all they can do is ask you to leave, if you refuse then they can have you arrested for trespassing. Concealed means concealed. How will they know?

Oh I don't know, trespassing with a firearm is a serious crime in most states.

Ignoring the lawful wishes, and rights, of a *private property* owner to decide who and how someone enters their *private property* is probably not the best way to extend good will. It certainly puts responsible gun owners in a bad light.

Check your local laws, but this is something most people don't understand. If it's posted "no guns" or you are otherwise aware that you are not allowed to carry a firearm on the premises then you are committing a crime (trespassing) when you enter anyway. A lot of people seem to think that you have to be asked (or told) to leave before you are trespassing; not so. If there are rules to entry you must follow those rules, or by default you are trespassing.

I'm not saying that it does not suck to be kept from entering an establishment while carrying. It does. But at the end of the day if it's private property then you really don't have a choice. Your rights, First Amendment, Second Amendment, or otherwise do not necessarily extend, or apply on private property. In may cases the rights of the private property owner outweigh your individual rights.

It certainly does not help anything if your going out of the gate with an attitude that you don't care about other peoples rights.

I would maybe ask the management to post the sign of "No Guns" but as that they amend it to allow concealed carry license holders: "No Guns, unless licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292" ORS = Oregon Revised Statues and the ones listed are the concealed carry license provisions, substitute with your own states obviously. Extol the virtues of concealed carry licensees - background checks, law abiding, etc.

Also, keep in mind that may places put these signs up to reduce liability. If you talk to the owner, or manager, you may be able to get permission (I'd get it in writing or record the phone call) to continue to carry despite the posting.

Always, respect the right of the private property owner though, not doing so puts responsible guns owners and concealed carry licensees in a bad light. Always keep in mind (and remind the owner/manager) that you do not have to enter/patronize their property/establishment. Business worships one god - the dollar, keeping people away is typically not in their best interest.

 

[PorcupineMike]

What to say to businesses posting "No Guns"

I used to have business cards printed out, which I carried at all times. I got the design from some pro-carry group, but it's been too long ago to remember which. Anyway, the cards had a big pistol with a red circle and strike-thru = and then a large dollar sign in a red circle and strike-thru. On the other side, it had a short statement something along the lines of: "I join with other law-abiding citizens in choosing to spend our money in businesses which respect my right to self-defense." And had my name, email address and phone number.

Thankfully, here in NH, I don't need to carry those cards anymore!

NH already has Open Carry with no license required, and "Constitutional Carry" just passed the NH House of Reps with a vote of 244-109. (Link Removed ) and it looks like it ought to pass the Senate soon as well.

In the Senate, they have another bill (Link Removed ) which is a "Stand Your Ground" bill, which just passed out of committee with an "Ought To Pass" on Thursday.

Great time to live in NH!

 

[JrFreak]

I wouldn't say anything to the restaurant. They don't have ears!

As for the owner... nothing. Concealed = he/she won't know. If the US Government says I can carry a weapon concealed to protect myself how can a friggin restaurant owner tell me I can't...??

 

[Derby]

It amazes me the number of people that won't respect the rules posted by businesses. I agree with the idea to have a polite talk or send a polite letter to the owner/manager of the establishment. Then take your business to where there are no restrictions that bother you. A “No Guns” sign means just that and the business owner has the right to put that restriction in place.

Some business owners might object to guns on the premises for fear of a customer getting a glimpse of it and panicking. Sure, you are all pointing out how you carry concealed, but few of us are perfect and it is always possible that it will be seen by someone. You know that there are multiple ways this could happen so I won't try to enumerate them.

If you communicate your opinions and reasons in a civil fashion, most owners and managers will see your point. Some will act accordingly and others will choose to stand their position – their choice. Your choice is to take your business elsewhere. I think the suggested letter posted by Desert Dude (post #2) is an excellent letter to send if you prefer writing over talking. You certainly have the right to simply move on to other businesses and never let the offender know why. But I think it would be better to let them know so they may, at some time, realize the justification of removing their restriction.

Not letting them know why you will no longer bring your money to them will never get them to see the light. And if other stores start posting the same signs you may start limiting your options where you can buy given products. The more stores that post the signs with no repercussions (or without seeing the repercussions) the greater the problem will become.

As far a malls are concerned, it would be prudent to contact the owners/managers of the shops you had (or would have) frequented so they can pass on the concerns to the mall management. Enough such complaints or comments may eventually cause favorable change.

As a former business owner I had a “No Smoking” policy in place and indicated at the front door. It was honored and I never had to enforce it. It was my right to have that policy. The smoker's rights ended at the sign. It was also my right to have a “No Guns” policy but I chose not to. At the time I was not a gun owner. Had I had such a policy, no doubt I would have felt strong enough about it to have a violator arrested for carrying, if local/state law provided that carrying past a no carry sign was considered trespassing.

 

[Lakeland Man]

It just occurred to me that my ex-wife works for GGP, the largest mall owners in the country. I think I'll ask her about their gun policy. I'll post her answer here after I talk to her.

 

[BC1]

There is a difference between private property and property that is open to the public. If property owner's rights prevail can I open a restaurant w/ a seperate section for "colored" folks?

No sir. "Colored" folks as a group are protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Gun owners are not a protected group.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States that outlawed major forms of discrimination against blacks, women, including racial segregation, country of origin and religious affiliation. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public ("public accommodations").

 

[Lakeland Man]

No sir. "Colored" folks as a group are protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Gun owners are not a protected group.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88-352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) was a landmark piece of legislation in the United States that outlawed major forms of discrimination against blacks, women, including racial segregation, country of origin and religious affiliation. It ended unequal application of voter registration requirements and racial segregation in schools, at the workplace and by facilities that served the general public ("public accommodations").

Additionally, you cannot "choose" to be black or female. But you CAN choose to carry or not.

 

[BC1]

I wouldn't say anything to the restaurant. They don't have ears!

As for the owner... nothing. Concealed = he/she won't know. If the US Government says I can carry a weapon concealed to protect myself how can a friggin restaurant owner tell me I can't...??

Because the owner of that restuarant trumps our second amendment rights while on his private property. As I said in an earlier post... no one enters my home armed. NO ONE. Period. My property, my rules. This right of the property owner has been upheld by numerous courts throughout America.