What If LEO Wants My Weapon During Traffic Stop?!

[NavyLCDR]

I only calls it as I see's it. The LEO acted in a PROFESSIONAL manner according to the situation (casual stop which was my fault), well dressed middle-aged, Cauc male, CIA parking pass on dash...sticker & "retired agency" on bumper, polite, well spoken, over-powered, over-priced German Bahn burner, all paperwork at the ready, hands in full view, no threat sit. Deal with it, Commander.

So, answer me this Mr. retired CIA.... exactly what was accomplished by the officer asking you to unload your gun needlessly?

 

[XD40scinNC]

So, answer me this Mr. retired CIA.... exactly what was accomplished by the officer asking you to unload your gun needlessly?

Maybe the FL LEO was wary because if the CIA parking pass and bumper sticker. Seems prudent to me.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Maybe the FL LEO was wary because if the CIA parking pass and bumper sticker. Seems prudent to me.

1. If you are wary of someone having a loaded gun in their possession, where is the last place that you would want that loaded gun to be? For me, that would be in their hands. "Hey, Mr. CIA, I really don't feel comfortable with a loaded gun in your possession there because you might shoot me with it so why don't you just take that gun out of it's holster there and fondle it for me...."

2. If the officer was comfortable enough with Mr. CIA and his gun to ask him to fondle it....where would the safest place for that gun to be since it was already secure in a holster? To me that would be left in the holster with nobody touching/handling it.

In case #1 if the officer felt Mr. CIA posed a threat to his safety then asking Mr. CIA to take the gun out of the holster and handle it only increases the threat. In Case #2 if the officer was comfortable with Mr. CIA enough to invite him to fondle his gun, then he only introduced additional danger by asking Mr. CIA to remove the gun from the safest place and condition it was in at that moment.

Either way Officer Friendly increased the danger to himself and others by asking Mr. CIA to fondle his gun. Officer Friendly might be a professional - a professional idiot or maybe he just likes to exert his authority over CIA agents who like to exceed the speed limit in an "excessive display" and creating the situation of "I can keep my gun, but I'm going to make you put yours in the trunk" increases Officer Friendly's feeling of superiority.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy Blues,

Haha, no, Stench is a liar. You two should get along swimmingly.

More blabbing from a basement dweller.

After rereading your original post I once again call BS on your story for a couple of reasons.

1.) Your Mom would never let you go out at night.

2.) Well, after #1 it doesn't matter what the other reasons are.

Paul

 

[NavyLCDR]

Howdy Blues,

More blabbing from a basement dweller.

After rereading your original post I once again call BS on your story for a couple of reasons.

1.) Your Mom would never let you go out at night.

2.) Well, after #1 it doesn't matter what the other reasons are.

Paul

 

[BC1]

Howdy Blues,



More blabbing from a basement dweller.

After rereading your original post I once again call BS on your story for a couple of reasons.

1.) Your Mom would never let you go out at night.

2.) Well, after #1 it doesn't matter what the other reasons are.

Paul

You don't have anything else? The basement dweller thing is old. It's a cliché on numerous pro-gun websites. Every friggin post. Get some new material, you're a terrible comedian.

 

[BluesStringer]

On a different thread one of the basement dwelling idiots BRAGGED about being pulled over by the cops in a high crime rate area and backed down an entire geared up Tac Team when they questioned him. Sure he did.

Haha, really? any chance you could link to that thread or point me towards it? Sounds entertaining.

Haha, no, Stench is a liar. You two should get along swimmingly.

Howdy Blues,

More blabbing from a basement dweller.

After rereading your original post I once again call BS on your story for a couple of reasons.

1.) Your Mom would never let you go out at night.

2.) Well, after #1 it doesn't matter what the other reasons are.

Paul

More lies Pretty Simple Paul. I never claimed to "back down an entire tac team," I simply, and truthfully, described an unconstitutional stop & frisk kind of stop that happened to me in reply to one of the most brain-dead justifications of "probable cause" ever asserted on this forum by you. You tried to make a big deal about me stating my rights under the 4th and 5th Amendments and driving away without getting my ass kicked (or whatever other "appropriate" abuse from cops you fantasize should've happened to me). This is the bottom line of what happened that night while I was trying to get to the meet-point to go down to Biloxi, MS for disaster relief the night that Katrina was blowin' through:

And I wasn't "cruisin'" at all. I was driving the exact same route I drove every single work-day to the Salvation Army Thrift Store that's right next door to the church. I got lit-up a block away, protested their search and demanded to know what crime I was suspected of committing. Waited for them to finish and went on my way.

That makes you a liar of the first order, Paul. I never bragged, I never backed them down, I simply stated my objections, waited patiently, was cut loose, left for Biloxi about an hour later and spent the next two weeks down there actually lending a hand to those in need. You ought to try it sometime, Paul. It would be much better therapy for your black-hearted soul than coming here tellin' lies about posts and/or posters on this forum who can prove that you're lying, which, in case you missed it, I just did.

Quit being a lying dull tool, Pretty Simple Paul. The only person you impress with that BS is the one you see in the mirror.

Blues

 

[XD40scinNC]

1. If you are wary of someone having a loaded gun in their possession, where is the last place that you would want that loaded gun to be? For me, that would be in their hands. "Hey, Mr. CIA, I really don't feel comfortable with a loaded gun in your possession there because you might shoot me with it so why don't you just take that gun out of it's holster there and fondle it for me...."

2. If the officer was comfortable enough with Mr. CIA and his gun to ask him to fondle it....where would the safest place for that gun to be since it was already secure in a holster? To me that would be left in the holster with nobody touching/handling it.

In case #1 if the officer felt Mr. CIA posed a threat to his safety then asking Mr. CIA to take the gun out of the holster and handle it only increases the threat. In Case #2 if the officer was comfortable with Mr. CIA enough to invite him to fondle his gun, then he only introduced additional danger by asking Mr. CIA to remove the gun from the safest place and condition it was in at that moment.

Either way Officer Friendly increased the danger to himself and others by asking Mr. CIA to fondle his gun. Officer Friendly might be a professional - a professional idiot or maybe he just likes to exert his authority over CIA agents who like to exceed the speed limit in an "excessive display" and creating the situation of "I can keep my gun, but I'm going to make you put yours in the trunk" increases Officer Friendly's feeling of superiority.

You clearly missed my dig at the wide spread destruct of our federal government 3 letter agencies.

But yea, I agree with you, the cop was wrong, and if Mr. CIA had the intent to shoot the cop, the cop gave him an excellent opportunity by asking him to handle the gun.

I've had one interaction with a LEO while armed, and the cop said "mmmmm ok" and went on with the accident paperwork. I live in a must notify state.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You clearly missed my dig at the wide spread destruct of our federal government 3 letter agencies.

Actually, I did catch it. But, in reality, you probably identified the most likely reason for Officer Friendly's request which was that he was hoping for some roadside entertainment. A "CIA agent" who likes to make an "excessive display of speed" in his "over-powered, over-priced German Bahn burner" is exactly the same kind of person that would:

Followed by Officer Friendly's immediate reaction of :haha::lol: "Sir, could you stop hopping around long enough to sign this citation?"

 

[ArmyCW4]

Roflmao!!

 

[Deanimator]

I only calls it as I see's it. The LEO acted in a PROFESSIONAL manner according to the situation (casual stop which was my fault), well dressed middle-aged, Cauc male, CIA parking pass on dash...sticker & "retired agency" on bumper, polite, well spoken, over-powered, over-priced German Bahn burner, all paperwork at the ready, hands in full view, no threat sit. Deal with it, Commander.

And if you had obeyed the traffic laws, it probably wouldn't have happened at all.

Apart from racially or politically motivated fishing expeditions, most police interactions are precipitated by engaging in activities which invite the attention of police.

I find it vastly preferable to avoid ALL contact with the police, rather than to invite their attention, necessitating ritualistic shows of submission.

I want NOTHING to do with the police, and conduct myself accordingly.

But that's just me...

 

[whodat2710]

Howdy Blues,



More blabbing from a basement dweller.

After rereading your original post I once again call BS on your story for a couple of reasons.

1.) Your Mom would never let you go out at night.

2.) Well, after #1 it doesn't matter what the other reasons are.

Paul

Link Removed

 

[ET]

With all the bad press about trigger happy cops... the thought has to come into this conversation about being " DEAD " right..... Your rights are your rights.. that's for sure... I spent my military career defending those rights... the problem is the cop may not be as respective of your rights as he should and you could stand on your rights and in the wrong situation be buried because of those rights. IN some States you have to declare your weapon in a car stop... with me having a loaded gun and the cop having a gun, is a situation which has all the elements of a green light.. I would keep both hands on the steering wheel, declare the weapon and say that I am licensed... I would keep my hand on the steering wheel and ask the police officer for directions on how to proceed. Its when the adrenaline starts pumping that people ( cops ) make poor ( bad ) decisions.. I don't think any cop leaves the house with the idea that he " wants " to kill someone today .. but has played it out in his mind that he is ready to take a life to save a life... when things escalate.. poor judgments become more of a threat ( especially when the cop thinks he is the good guy and always has the right to defend himself ) .. so to keep things calm, cooperation is a batter ally then an attitude.,

 

[NavyLCDR]

The safest place for my gun to stay is in the holster with nobody touching it. The greatest chance of it staying in the holster without anyone touching it is with me keeping my mouth shut about it and not voluntarily offering a police officer an invitation to fondle it. I understand some people are afraid of police officers and for them they will feel safer with officer friendly in charge of them and their gun. It's too bad, though, that some cops will think that because some people are afraid of them that everyone should be afraid of them and volunteer their submission upon initial contact.

 

[ET]

The safest place for my gun to stay is in the holster with nobody touching it. The greatest chance of it staying in the holster without anyone touching it is with me keeping my mouth shut about it and not voluntarily offering a police officer an invitation to fondle it. I understand some people are afraid of police officers and for them they will feel safer with officer friendly in charge of them and their gun. It's too bad, though, that some cops will think that because some people are afraid of them that everyone should be afraid of them and volunteer their submission upon initial contact.

If we could keep this civil.... the underlines statement above is a typical passive aggressive statement.. Why does someone have to be " Afraid" ? Why can't it be the less adversarial and open communications between an officer of the law and a law abiding citizen? Or why cant it be intelligent concern for a potentially bad experience from the wrong type of cop with a loaded gun. My other thought in this conversation would be,.. I understand that for some, the fear of opening a can or worms with an admission to legally carrying a weapon in the car.. could escalate... what do you do, if when legally stopped for a violation, and the officers asked of there are any weapons in the car? do you tell him, or do you lie? This plays out as a situation where you have a licenses to carry permit, so that you can follow the law... but the 2nd Amd. already give you that right. You carry the license to prove that you are licensed.. that card is there to prove that. ... This is a discussion... Part of the discussion is that some Cops are not as professional as we would l9ike them to be... Are cops, good for the most part or are most of them bad? Do they deserve respect? or are they already the scourge of the community... I have two very professional State Troopers that I call friends. They have never shown me anything but professional courtesy when it comes to the law.. and when we get together for dinner, they are just regular guys. Ive been stopped by police officers for various reasons over the years , and I have to say that there was never one time that I was not treated with the utmost courtesy, and respect... However.. I do know some Cops that are real Ass/h... we see those types, all the time in the news... when stopped by a Cop.. its hard to tell if the Cop is a good guy or a bad guy.... so offering up you weapon to a bad cop could be a can opening experience with " you " becoming a victim.. where as.. if you never offered up your weapon to a bad cop.. the can would be closed. there is a fine line between respect, and attitude... on both sides of the car door. So do you have little to no respect for cops ( going into a traffic stop ) and have attitude, and no cooperation, or do you respect the cop and give him the benefit.. I think if you get a bad cop ,and have attitude and do not cooperate.. things could go bad... I think if you get a bad cop and are respectful and cooperative, things could still go bad... By the way, I've always been cooperative, and have never once, in the 7 or eight times I've been stopped in 55 years of driving, have I ever received a ticket... I haven't been stopped by a cop in over 20 years...
I guess this is one of those situations where, no matter what you do... if the cop is bad.. things could go bad... if the cop is good, chances are there will be no issues. IM interested in the answer to the question.. If the cop asks if there are any weapons in the car... would you ever lie...? For me... IM a very moral and ethical guy... lying would not be a part of my normal DNA... Have I ever lied? Sure.. I've been married to the same woman for 48 years..... LOL.

Incidentally.. the topic of this thread is a good question... its not obvious what the right thing to do actually is... like most positions in this forum.. there are those who are convinced that " their " opinion is always the right opinion.. which is were most closed minded people, dig in and will do what ever they can to defend that position.. with little respect for those with an opposing position..

 

[NavyLCDR]

If we could keep this civil.... the underlines statement above is a typical passive aggressive statement.. Why does someone have to be " Afraid" ? Why can't it be the less adversarial and open communications between an officer of the law and a law abiding citizen? Or why cant it be intelligent concern for a potentially bad experience from the wrong type of cop with a loaded gun.

Seems like you are being a bit defensive about it. The fact of the matter is that some people are afraid that the police officer will shoot them if the officer sees the gun before they "confess" to possessing it.

So do you have little to no respect for cops ( going into a traffic stop ) and have attitude, and no cooperation, or do you respect the cop and give him the benefit..

I am professional and courteous as I hope the officer will be. I don't have to give the officer any benefit of the doubt to do that. Nor do I have to be disrespectful, have an attitude and offer no cooperation in order to exercise my rights as well as taking only the actions I am required by law to take.

 

[Gregmm6]

If we could keep this civil.... the underlines statement above is a typical passive aggressive statement.. Why does someone have to be " Afraid" ?

Because one can frame the motivations of another as mere emotion if they are able to portray those motivations as "fear." Simple emotional responses are easier to dismiss than reasonable ones. Basically, they do it to avoid a real conversation.

 

[ET]

Seems like you are being a bit defensive about it. The fact of the matter is that some people are afraid that the police officer will shoot them if the officer sees the gun before they "confess" to possessing it.



I am professional and courteous as I hope the officer will be. I don't have to give the officer any benefit of the doubt to do that. Nor do I have to be disrespectful, have an attitude and offer no cooperation in order to exercise my rights as well as taking only the actions I am required by law to take.

The last thing I said, and I repeated it twice.. was : What do you do if the cops asks if there are any weapons in the car. do you lie, do you stand on your rights... do you tell him that there is a weapon in the car and you are licensed. A non commit, could be considered, attitude by a bad cop.... and easily escalated to a higher level of confrontation.. again I say if the cop is bad.. IN my opinion a bad cop with attitude, welcomes attitude, and allows him to show just how bad of a cop he can be, in the hope that you will let him..which seems to be the opinion of many on this forum.. I wish I had the ability to know of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement, home land security, and other members of our legal system and security systems are really good people.. Im guessing that 10 % are less than qualified and dedicated and wrongfully motivated ( the bad cops ). I'm guessing that 10 % are doing better work then they are paid ( those are the ones that stand out and get promoted. ( the good cops )

I think the Job.. and its ethics are still in tact by the vast majority... And I think that the 80 % remaining are doing their job in an adequate, professional and responsible way.

If there are 3,000,000 in this demographic, that still leaves 300,000 Bad. In a city like New York that would make 3500 bad cops..... Of course IM just guessing here.... but that would leave 31,000 good cops in the city of New York. the reality is that 3500 cops that are bad, are 3500 too many. ( Edited numbers ) sorry... IM juts trying to get a visual perspective on these umbers.. even though this is just a guess. 3500 Bad cops in the city of New York is very unsettling number.. even if I'm being conservative..

 

[apvbguy]

.

If there are 300,000 in this demographic, that still leaves 30,000 Bad. In a city like New York that would make 350 bad cops..... Of course IM just guessing here.... but that would leave 3100 good cops in the city of New York. the reality is that 350 cops that are bad are 350 too many.

I don't get how you arrived at these numbers but I can state from anecdotal experience that there are many many more bad/incompetent cops in NYC than there are good ones. the average cop you encounter on the streets of NYC is rarely a good cop. as for giving up your rights to placate a cop? the question remains, WHY??

 

[ET]

sorry My original numbers where way off... I adjusted them to be more realistic.., just looking for perspective... if NYC has 3,500 bad cops... that's a lot of bad cops. out of 35,000 cops... even if IM off. I still think the good guys outweigh the bad guys... again I am not qualified to give any real numbers... just offering a view by-the numbers... I still think the good guys , want to be good guys . I think there are positions within law enforcement to weed out the bad ones... proof is, you can see all the jail time bad cops get in Big cities and the number of bad cops indicted ... my eyes where opened in a simple search of the 40 million dollars paid out for wrongful police actions in just one year in one city.. and that is only the ones that went to trial... I still cant wrap my head around, so many Bad cops... Of course my personal life and my experiences have not been what " the numbers " seem to show...