what distance is best to range test at?

[NewlyEnthused]

I know I need to practice at a variety of distances. But is there a distance I should focus at?

My thought was that 15 yards is the most that a threat would most likely be, so if I practice mostly there and get proficient at that distance, the closer distances are automatically good.

Or is my thinking backwards?

 

[Eidolon]

I strongly reccomend you get some professional training and some force on force training. Work on shooting from retention and practice drawing form concealment. Don't worry about speed, if you practice doing it right speed will come

 

[S&W645]

My NRA pistol instructor test was based on 7.5 and 15 yards. In self defense shootings, the normal starting distance is at 21 feet to 28 feet for an attacker to get to you with a knife before they get shot. That is the distance they can cover before you can get your gun out and shoot one round. At 25 feet, you should be able to put 6 shots in an 8" paper plate in 3 seconds or less.

 

[BC1]

I know I need to practice at a variety of distances. But is there a distance I should focus at?

My thought was that 15 yards is the most that a threat would most likely be, so if I practice mostly there and get proficient at that distance, the closer distances are automatically good.

Or is my thinking backwards?

Unless someone is shooting at you 15 yards is murder, not self-defense. Even then you would use the distance to your advantage and seek cover. Consider that most defensive uses of a handgun are 5-7 feet. Start there with point shooting. Learn a proper draw stroke. Perhaps a basic PP class is in order.

 

[Stan45]

At arm length distance, 5 and 10 yds. covers most of my practice. 15 and 25 yds once in a while.

 

[Eidolon]

Unless someone is shooting at you 15 yards is murder, not self-defense. Even then you would use the distance to your advantage and seek cover.

Why do you guys keep trying to write things in stone that aren't written in stone? If you pulled a knife and started threatening me at 15yards (45 feet) yeah I probably wouldn't shoot but I'd sure be getting ready to.

 

[NewlyEnthused]

I strongly reccomend you get some professional training and some force on force training.

What is Force on Force training?

 

[festus]

practice from 0-25meters. different scenarios require different reactions. Get a professional pistol class if you can afford it. It will make you a whole lot more confident and competent.

 

[apvbguy]

I strongly reccomend you get some professional training and some force on force training. Work on shooting from retention and practice drawing form concealment. Don't worry about speed, if you practice doing it right speed will come

This ^^^^^^^ is very good advice, personally I train and 7 yards up to zero inches from the target

 

[apvbguy]

Why do you guys keep trying to write things in stone that aren't written in stone? If you pulled a knife and started threatening me at 15yards (45 feet) yeah I probably wouldn't shoot but I'd sure be getting ready to.

shooting any one at 15 yards is going to be very hard to justify

 

[BC1]

Why do you guys keep trying to write things in stone that aren't written in stone? If you pulled a knife and started threatening me at 15yards (45 feet) yeah I probably wouldn't shoot but I'd sure be getting ready to.

Because I'm experienced and educated on this subject. Because my partner is a criminal defense attorney and I've watched these cases play-out over the last three decades. Because a person with a knife at 45 feet is not yet a threat and constitutes a response inconsistent with laws of affirmative defense in nearly every state.
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No one said don't get ready to shoot. But the first rules of defense are awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation and retreat. While tough guys see this as cowardly those with experience understand that shooting an attacker can destroy your life even if you're 100% correct. You may be arrested, indicted, charged and put through the expense of lawyers and a trial for something that might be easily avoided. Consider defense of a criminal charge for a homicide could cost $70K to $80K. My partner requires $25K retainer (cash or check) and then bills at $400 per hour. He averages about $80K for a tough defense. Most people can't afford that. So expect to blow your retirement money, kids college fund or even the equity in your home to pay a good lawyer... or take your chances with a court-appointed liar.
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Don't forget Miranda... You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. If you can't afford an attorney we'll provide you the dumbest bastard on earth. And I wouldn't rely on those untested self-defense insurance plans. Coverage usually has a cap that's way below the actual cost of the defense. Once you have to pay an attorney you've already lost. Tool of last resort? Not at 45 feet.

 

[Eidolon]

shooting any one at 15 yards is going to be very hard to justify

Again we're writing things in stone that should be written in sand... Anyone? what about a guy with a rifle? I never said i would shoot a guy with a knife (or other impact weapon) at 45 feet I said I'd be getting ready to. What does 45 feet add to the Tueller drill? 1 second?

 

[Dunewolf]

Force on force training is using simulation weapons (aka airsoft/paintball/etc) where one guy is badguy, other guy is good guy - bad guy tattempts to harm good guy and good guy tries to prevent harm..
it happens at various distances from so close you can smell em - to across the room/etc..

Granted it costs money to get quality training - but hey it can be fun if you approach it right.. Id love to go to some good training like it.. but im too poor to afford such things.. So instead I make do with mind games(mental exorcizes) and various other things I can do to practice..

 

[Eidolon]

Because I'm experienced and educated on this subject. Because my partner is a criminal defense attorney and I've watched these cases play-out over the last three decades. Because a person with a knife at 45 feet is not yet a threat and constitutes a response inconsistent with laws of affirmative defense in nearly every state.
.
No one said don't get ready to shoot. But the first rules of defense are awareness, avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation and retreat. While tough guys see this as cowardly those with experience understand that shooting an attacker can destroy your life even if you're 100% correct. You may be arrested, indicted, charged and put through the expense of lawyers and a trial for something that might be easily avoided. Consider defense of a criminal charge for a homicide could cost $70K to $80K. My partner requires $25K retainer (cash or check) and then bills at $400 per hour. He averages about $80K for a tough defense. Most people can't afford that. So expect to blow your retirement money, kids college fund or even the equity in your home to pay a good lawyer... or take your chances with a court-appointed liar.
.
Don't forget Miranda... You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to an attorney. If you can't afford an attorney we'll provide you the dumbest bastard on earth. And I wouldn't rely on those untested self-defense insurance plans. Coverage usually has a cap that's way below the actual cost of the defense. Once you have to pay an attorney you've already lost. Tool of last resort? Not at 45 feet.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here except the implication that PDs are all second rate lawyers. I know some damn good lawyers that are PDs because they believe in public service and they will knock them selves out to provide you with the best possible defense under the law.

 

[Eidolon]

What is Force on Force training?

Dune wolf gave a good answer it's basically blue team/ red team training. you act out real scenarios with simulated weapons. not paintball so much because you can't draw a painball gun from concealment

an example

 

[BC1]

I don't disagree with anything you've said here except the implication that PDs are all second rate lawyers. I know some damn good lawyers that are PDs because they believe in public service and they will knock them selves out to provide you with the best possible defense under the law.

Hell, my landscaper gets $35 per hour. Do not make the mistake of believing a PD will do the job. In NYS a public defender makes $70 per hour... court appointed, not legal aid. $70 per hour is pocket change. He's not going to spend 1000 hours on your case when he could be getting $350 per hour from a paying client. For $70 per hour I won't even answer the phone. My JAVA engineers were paid $135 per hour and they're software developers. I billed them at $175 per hour to my clients. Even my graphic artists were billed at $125 per hour. An experienced criminal defense attorney with a good track record is very expensive. Never look for a bargain in parachutes, medical care and attorneys. Would you let the Opthamologist with the discount rate perform laser vision correction? Of course not. When it comes to your freedom, your life, retirement, your home, your families lives, finances and well-being, nothing but the best will do. My opnion is based on a lot of legal representation over the years in civil litigation and business negotiations. I just finished an eight year legal battle with a former business partner. It took eight years but I finally got the embezzling bastard. He paid back most of what he took plus my legal fees. For $70 per hour no lawyer would have stuck-it out for eight years. You absolutely get what you pay for.

 

[Stengun]

Howdy,

I'm gonna go with BC1 on this one.

If someone is 45' away and they are NOT shooting at me, I'm going to give them the one finger salute.

Most states that do not have a SYG Law require you to flee if possible and if the BG is 45' away he really isn't much of a threat at the moment, unless he is firing at you.

If the BG is 45' away and he charges you, well, once he gets close enough then he is a threat.

Paul

 

[NewlyEnthused]

And if he was not charging before the one finger salute, he will then.

 

[Eidolon]

Hell, my landscaper gets $35 per hour. Do not make the mistake of believing a PD will do the job. In NYS a public defender makes $70 per hour... court appointed, not legal aid. $70 per hour is pocket change. He's not going to spend 1000 hours on your case when he could be getting $350 per hour from a paying client. For $70 per hour I won't even answer the phone. My JAVA engineers were paid $135 per hour and they're software developers. I billed them at $175 per hour to my clients. Even my graphic artists were billed at $125 per hour. An experienced criminal defense attorney with a good track record is very expensive. Never look for a bargain in parachutes, medical care and attorneys. Would you let the Opthamologist with the discount rate perform laser vision correction? Of course not. When it comes to your freedom, your life, retirement, your home, your families lives, finances and well-being, nothing but the best will do. My opnion is based on a lot of legal representation over the years in civil litigation and business negotiations. I just finished an eight year legal battle with a former business partner. It took eight years but I finally got the embezzling bastard. He paid back most of what he took plus my legal fees. For $70 per hour no lawyer would have stuck-it out for eight years. You absolutely get what you pay for.

Where I'm at the State sets the standard for who does or doesn't qualify for a PD so it wouldn't be a matter of choice. The PDs here are all state employees so whatever the state pays is what they get.

My point though was that not all PDs are lousy lawyers. All of the ones I ever met (anecdotally) did the best job they could under the circumstances, high case loads and all that. Are PDs the best lawyers? Probably not but don't say they're all trash bags that don't give a damn one way or the other if you go to jail.
One advantage of having a PD is if you qualify, you qualify. I had a friend who picked up a murder case his “ you get what you pay for” lawyer took everything he owned in fees and then dumped him when he was out of money, his PD saw the case through to the end because the State paid him not my friend (who ended up pleading to murder2 and did 5 years)

 

[Eidolon]

And if he was not charging before the one finger salute, he will then.

And when he does the fact that you escalated the confrontation will be used against you