To carry hot or not?
- Thread starter jfjfxray
- Start date
BC1
,
An unloaded gun is a club. Load it, carry it and don't pet it. You'll get comfortable with this after a while.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Are we to understand that you're constantly chambering and unchambering rounds in your carry weapon depending on what your destination is when you walk out the door? You're playing with your gun too much if that's the case.
There are active threads right now (and nearly always on this forum) dealing with preference issues such as caliber (9mm vs. .45 ACP, or whatever), IWB vs. OWB vs. ankle vs. shoulder holsters, auto-loader vs. wheel gun etc. In every one of those types of threads, if I participate (for what seems like the ten thousandth time), I will always advise people to do whatever they're comfortable with. I will say it's one of the things associated with the exercise of your freedom to choose your own way.
This is different. This thread was started by someone who said they were new to carrying. They were asking, not for advice on what preference they should develop, but on a good tactics issue. The OP was clear that he was trying to gather good information from which to make an educated decision. This is not a subjective, feelings or comfort-based issue. There is clear and unambiguous data available that plainly demonstrates the tactical advantages of carrying "hot" as the OP referred to Condition 1 or Condition 2 carry. One of those data-points was a video in this post by pafindr. Advanced tactical pistol, shotgun and rifle courses will all instruct on C1 and/or C2 carry (depending on type of weapon) for precisely the reasons demonstrated in that video.
If you're going to give advice based on the comfort level of the person you're advising, ask them how comfortable they will be with leaving their families fatherless/motherless or with a dead son or daughter, because that is what tactics training is all about - avoiding death. It's not about avoiding discomfort or training to adapt to one's feelings about carrying chambered or not. It's about training to stay alive when some animal decides he's willing to severely hurt or kill you for whatever you have that he wants.
It is terrible advice to tell someone who is new to carrying a weapon to do what feels right for you. Do what is tactically sound. Carry chambered, period.
Blues
I don't carry hot.
Yes, time is always of the essence. But I have not put enough practice into drawing and removing safety to be comfortable with it. It takes a LOT of practice and constant practice to be proficient enough to be safe. And being safe is as important as protection.
Accidentally shooting yourself or God forbid, someone else, gives us all a bad name.
My sister-in-law shot my brother in the leg, with three young children in the room. I know of several other instances where people shot their foot or leg.
Yes, time is always of the essence. But I have not put enough practice into drawing and removing safety to be comfortable with it. It takes a LOT of practice and constant practice to be proficient enough to be safe. And being safe is as important as protection.
Accidentally shooting yourself or God forbid, someone else, gives us all a bad name.
My sister-in-law shot my brother in the leg, with three young children in the room. I know of several other instances where people shot their foot or leg.
Kramer1113
New member
Incorrect. My SR1911 is a Model 70, no block.
Kramer1113
New member
I am sure it is agreed that everyone is free to carry as they see fit. My thought after reading many of these posts is that there has to be consistency in the way you carry.
Developing muscle memory is a matter of training your body what to do when your brain is processing other data.
If you are carrying chambered then not chambered, you are not going to react properly when the time comes that you need your weapon.
Training isn't about range day and squeezing the trigger, that's the last step in the training process.
I try to carry the same 1911 cocked and locked all the time. It has a thumb safety and I train to take the thumb safety off as I draw the weapon from my holster.
The act of lifting my shirt high with my left hand, drawing with my right, sweeping the safety off and pointing on target have to be imprinted in my muscles. The motions are second nature.
Rarely do I carry my smaller gun, it is a Ruger SR9c, it also has a thumb safety so the sweeping motion is the same. I wear it at 4:00 just like the 1911.
No matter how you decide to carry be sure your training is frequent, performed in a safe manner, and complete. Better good with a gun than lucky, but I'll take both.
Developing muscle memory is a matter of training your body what to do when your brain is processing other data.
If you are carrying chambered then not chambered, you are not going to react properly when the time comes that you need your weapon.
Training isn't about range day and squeezing the trigger, that's the last step in the training process.
I try to carry the same 1911 cocked and locked all the time. It has a thumb safety and I train to take the thumb safety off as I draw the weapon from my holster.
The act of lifting my shirt high with my left hand, drawing with my right, sweeping the safety off and pointing on target have to be imprinted in my muscles. The motions are second nature.
Rarely do I carry my smaller gun, it is a Ruger SR9c, it also has a thumb safety so the sweeping motion is the same. I wear it at 4:00 just like the 1911.
No matter how you decide to carry be sure your training is frequent, performed in a safe manner, and complete. Better good with a gun than lucky, but I'll take both.
Kramer1113
New member
OMG, People you know should not own guns.
ChDangerfield
New member
wolf_fire
New member
Do you leave a round out of a revolver? The answer is no. That type of firearm is intended to be run "hot" (your choice of wording).
As such, any pistol is designed to be run with a round chambered. Depending on your specific model, you have many safeties that you need to be aware of. You should also practice drawing (unloaded of course) and releasing any external safety (if there is one) until it becomes instinctual for you to do so. They call this muscle memory. Muscle memory is critical because, if you are in a life/death situation, your adrenaline will be coursing through you and you will react, not act. Therefore, you need to be practiced at drawing effectively.
The other thing that I will remind you of is the four rules of safe gun handling:
1) All guns are loaded. (this is a state of mind how you treat every gun)
2) Never cross over or point the muzzle at anything you do not wish to destroy.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and made the conscious decision to fire.
4) Be aware of your target, what is in front and what is beyond.
If you practice with your specific model firearm and keep conscious the four rules spelled out before you, then you will dispel any fear of having a round in the chamber, because that firearm is only going to go off when you decide for it to go off.
There are a litany of reasons to not have one in the chamber... too slow if you are in a situation that requires you to react quickly, too noisy if you are in a situation in which you are trying to take cover or be concealed, you may be too scared and too shaky to rack the slide appropriately and have a jammed weapon when it is most critical are just a few good reasons to not have your weapon "cold".
Treo
Bullet Proof
It’s actually been a month or so since this thread has come up.
This is what decided me, when I first started carrying the people around me were all 1911 aficionados.
They all carried their firearms cocked in a holster with a retention strap; the strap went between the hammer and the firing pin (which isn’t a bad Idea).
Anyway my gun was an S&W Model 915 with a decocker. Not knowing any better I carried it in the holster cocked and unlocked with the retention strap between the hammer and firing pin.
DISCLAIMER: What I just described is absolutely an unsafe way to carry a firearm.
Having said that I carried it that way for about 6 month before someone squared me away and the pistol didn’t fire ever.
This is what decided me, when I first started carrying the people around me were all 1911 aficionados.
They all carried their firearms cocked in a holster with a retention strap; the strap went between the hammer and the firing pin (which isn’t a bad Idea).
Anyway my gun was an S&W Model 915 with a decocker. Not knowing any better I carried it in the holster cocked and unlocked with the retention strap between the hammer and firing pin.
DISCLAIMER: What I just described is absolutely an unsafe way to carry a firearm.
Having said that I carried it that way for about 6 month before someone squared me away and the pistol didn’t fire ever.
telpinaro
New member
Actually, yeah, I've heard something like that. At a women's CC class, some were nervous about the idea of carrying with a round in the chamber, so the instructor advised that you carry without it... at first. Once you get comfortable with your purse or holster and you've convinced your brain that nothing bad will happen, then start carrying with a round chambered. He also suggested carrying (unloaded) around the house so you could randomly practice drawing and prove to yourself that you can carry without accidentally shooting yourself. His idea was that carrying without a round chambered is better than not carrying at all, and whatever it took to get these women to carry was a good thing.
N R A
New member
I
Not so much people you know should not own guns, but get some proper training.
Training is free if one wants it.
Knowledge, Skills, Attitude.
Thousands of you tube videos by knowledgeable instructors on gun safety.
Not so much people you know should not own guns, but get some proper training.
Training is free if one wants it.
Knowledge, Skills, Attitude.
Thousands of you tube videos by knowledgeable instructors on gun safety.
Kramer1113
New member
BluesStringer
Les Brers
As a temporary suggestion for the specific purpose of training yourself to be as comfortable as you can be, I don't have a problem with that advice, as long as the "temporary" part is pretty short. Unloaded draw drills and target acquisition drills are great advice too. There are numerous unloaded drills you can do to train your muscle memory and reflexes, and the great thing about them is that they don't cost a dime.
The OP's question was a general one though. The wayI read it, s/he was asking for advice for all-the-time carry. There is only one correct answer, tactically-speaking, to that question; always carry ready to rock without adding artificial obstacles to the process of drawing, aiming and firing.
Blues
ChDangerfield
New member
This sounds like how you carry an XD. The striker back and round chambered. No thumb safety to flip on. Am I wrong on this?
Sent from my Nexus 4 using USA Carry mobile app
N R A
New member
As someone has already pointed out, quite correctly, the OP is new to carrying a handgun for protection.
I would highly suggest you read your owners manual front to back and understand 100% of that manual before you EVER introduce ammo to your gun.
If your gun maker says keep the chamber unloaded until you are ready to fire, no member here can safely or prudently advise you to proceed otherwise.
If your goal is safety first, far more gun owners hurt themselves than you think, not following the directions that came with their guns. Be very careful the item you acquired to protect your family, is not the problem rather than the solution.
Register to take some NRA safety classes.
I would highly suggest you read your owners manual front to back and understand 100% of that manual before you EVER introduce ammo to your gun.
If your gun maker says keep the chamber unloaded until you are ready to fire, no member here can safely or prudently advise you to proceed otherwise.
If your goal is safety first, far more gun owners hurt themselves than you think, not following the directions that came with their guns. Be very careful the item you acquired to protect your family, is not the problem rather than the solution.
Register to take some NRA safety classes.
Treo
Bullet Proof
No, you're not wrong but an XD can't have a round in the chamber without being in that state. I was walking around with a second gen S&W in condition ZERO (chamber loaded, hammer cocked, ready to fire) in my holster.
Again I am aware that this was incredibly unsafe and I'm not reccomending it
But if my gun never just "went off" doing that how much less likely is it to happen with your XD or a Glock or my S&W carried properly decocked or even a 1911 in condition 1?
MackTruck11
New member
I like the video and articles you linked. I read the OP as what should s/he be doing, even though they may not do it now or have done before. From your linked aricle the basis for C3 was for a largely untrained civi population to avoid AD... and the comfort level was suggested being new to carry to be able to get comfortable TO carry "C1" .. a temporary measure to become safe and confident to carry chambered.
I think the point comes down to carry how you train, train how you carry. Most advise to carry chambered and train that way, as many point out, you may not be able to rack it.
As for my personal carry, when I get dressed and holster my sidearm in the morning its chambered or not and stays that way until unloaded and locked up at night - as a shotgun is more accessible for bedroom/home defense. I dont advise constantly changing chambered/unchambered either.
all that said, what are some good dry fire drills you recommend to train in addition to range drills?
wolf_fire
New member
I had never heard of this about Glock. I just went to their site and looked up all their downloadable literature (safety manual, preventative maintenance, etc.) No where did I see this recommendation to not carry a round in chamber. I did see however where Glock stated that their firearm will fire with the magazine removed if a round is still in chamber. This is yet another reason to carry "hot" in case you accidentally do hit the mag release in an adrenaline filled situation, you will still be able to get one round off.
Could you please cite where you have seen this recommendation from Glock? Thank you.
