This Should Make For Some Good Discussion...


gunnerbob

PEW Professional
Alright, as some of you may know I was Active Duty USAF but recently separated. Now, believe it or not some of you will be surprised to learn that I am currently pursuing my Criminal Justice degree. Yep, that's right... as of now, I actually plan on becoming an LEO. I know, I know... with all of the seemingly anti-cop stuff I post that would seem like hypocrisy but, I am not anti-cop but rather PRO-CONSTITUTION (thanks Navy). So, I have zero issue pointing out all the wrong things the police do b/c I feel that is the duty of Freemen to keep our PUBLIC SERVANTS held accountable.

Moreover, much like joining the military I felt that to know what the hell I was talking about and to gain valuable perspective on things (like war) I needed to stop talking about it and start being about it. The same applies to LE, I want to know what it's like to be one and I swear on my very being that I will dutifully uphold the very Constitution I have sworn to protect. I fully expect to not make many friends and to be somewhat of an outcast as an LEO... I'm okay with that. I will discharge my duties as honorably as I possibly can and will uphold the law insofar as it doesn't infringe upon The People's Rights without abiding by Due Process. It will be challenging and it will test my conscience daily but, I feel that I have the best chance of protecting We The People "from the inside" so to speak.

I expect this to draw criticism and possibly cause some of you to change your minds about me, however wrongly you may feel about my decisions they are my decisions. I will continue to fight for Individual Liberty and yes, if it comes down to "doing my job" or Standing With The People... I will hop the barrier and Stand With You. I challenged my every being by serving in the military and that did not change who I am, I don't expect becoming an LEO will either. If I need to quit b/c I can't take it anymore than so be it...

If you have criticisms, you may voice them now.
 

I for one, applaud your efforts and wish you the most luck. Remember that if you ever pull me over. :pleasantry:
 
I know many LEOs who find the recent tactics undesirable and have worked to train a generation who will not see themselves as enemies of the people and who accept the fact that their job puts them at risk - and that they can't mitigate that risk by killing or disarming law-abiding citizens. If good people will not do the job - a job that is going to exist whether they do or not - then only those who seek it for its power are left.
 
I still believe that 90% of police officers across this country are honest, hard working people who are professionals and won't abuse their authority. 9 out of 10 police officers that I have had official encounters with have been that way. Which also means I will also take the simple step of keeping my shut when the law allows me to in order to protect myself from the small minority of officers that are less than professional :). We need more good police officers, good luck, gunnerbob, I hope you find success in whatever honorable career you choose.
 
Good for you, go for it. The only caution I might add is to keep some of your political thoughts to yourself until you are actually hired. Our nephew who served in the Marines did several tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. When he got out of the Marines he had a hard time getting a job as a High School History teacher. One school actually told him that he was not a good fit due to his military service/views. He did not even mention his beliefs to cause him trouble getting hired.
 
I applaud you Gunner and I'm sure you will make an excellent LEO. I do believe that it will be difficult to be effective on the "inside" (depending on what jurisdiction you will work for) just as it's difficult to be effective when elected to government. A lot of peer pressure, strong arming, discipline for not "going along", the blue/grey line, etc. I very much wish you well and trust that you will find it rewarding and that in some way you can contribute to keeping LE accountable and on the Constitutional tracks. Godspeed, sir.
 
With my belief that I know your heart, Bob, I believe you are setting yourself up for a failure of monumental proportions. Let's just start with the 2nd Amendment since we're on a gun forum. If I recall correctly, you've said that OC is not "legal" where you live. Does your understanding of the 2nd Amendment provide for the "legality" of government making OC illegal? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you don't believe it does, that you believe that to be an unconstitutional infringement. How about permission slips? Same thing is my guess. The first OC'er you encounter as an LEO, the first CC'er who doesn't have a permission slip, and BOOM! You have to choose between upholding your oath to the Constitution and keeping your job.

And please, you know how to read. You are intimately familiar with the English language. Don't say that you can't deem something unconstitutional unless and until the Supreme Court says it. You have a conscience, a (thankfully) very active and engaged one as a matter of fact. Everything you spend your time here writing about is based on your understanding of what the Constitution protects for We, The People, and you stand firmly on its words, not on the SCOTUS' wild and liberty-killing interpretations of it. When you say, "So help me God" or "I swear and/or affirm," you will be swearing to abide by what the Constitution says according to your own reading and understanding of its protections precisely because your conscience is so active and engaged. Events in very recent history can serve as flagrant examples of what will happen more and more as the civil authorities that you know cannot sustain any semblance of "law-abiding" status under the tyrants pulling its strings are called upon to quell the inevitable uprisings (Bundy Ranch anyone?) that will result from the ever-more egregious thefts of our liberties by our government. Let's just look at one from a part of the country with which I am very familiar with key places relevant to the overall event, and think about how you'd abide by your oath and protect people's rights in a plethora of ways that law enforcement bosses ordered, for all intents and purposes, a suspension of the Constitution for 6 days last year. The Christopher Dorner manhunt is the case, and these are just a few things off the top of my head that represent gross violations of constitutional rights of both unrelated citizens, and Chris Dorner.

Five SoCal counties were virtually occupied by a paramilitary force looking for one man. Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, Riverside and San Bernardino Counties combine to cut a 37,633 sq. mile swath of the state in which many roads from one end of that area to the other were road blocked with drivers and passengers who had given zero probable cause to be contacted in any way by LE, were searched and questioned, many at gunpoint, some forced out of their vehicles to open trunks, lids or shells on pickup trucks, and boxes on commercial trucks. Tens of thousands of LEOs participated in this suspension of the Constitution. To this day, there is not one single report that I've ever seen or heard of, about an LEO who stood on his/her oath to say, "Respectfully Sir, I cannot carry out these orders to contact, harass, seize, question, or arrest people for whom I have no probable cause to believe they've committed a crime." Not one.

I used to live in Big Bear where Dorner was finally cornered and burned alive. I know exactly where the cabin was that he spent his last minutes of life in. There are two highways one can take to get up and down the mountain going to or from the Big Bear Lake area. The cabin he was in was very close to one of those highways, Hwy. 38 to the Eastern face of the range, and Hwy. 330 about 30 miles to the West. Both highways dump into Riverside. After a gun battle between Dorner and cops near the cabin, Dorner broke into the cabin that the cops eventually intentionally burnt to the ground with him in it. There are lots of unconstitutional actions we could discuss about that fact, but that's not what I'm drawing your attention to for now. While he's pinned down in that burning cabin just a few miles from Hwy. 38 and only a few miles from Big Bear Lake's Eastern shores, local streaming TV was showing the cluster coital act going on at the bottom of the hill at Hwy. 330 where there's at least three miles worth of cars backed up the hill on the two-lane hwy at rush hour as LE is still searching each and every vehicle coming down the mountain when radio traffic had been stating in no uncertain terms that Dorner was holed up in the cabin more than 60 miles away for a full hour before when I first saw that streaming video. At that time, the cabin was not only fully engulfed, but the roof was starting to collapse. That's how long after knowing exactly where Dorner was that they kept tyrannizing innocent citizens just for what? Kicks? Testing their resolve not to be tyrannized? Boy, if it was the latter, they sho' 'nuff failed that test miserably!

So what're you gonna do Bob? You're the guy who's ordered to throw the incendiary devices into the cabin. I proved the day it happened that it was murder by cop, not an attempt to capture and give any due process to the guy. Not surprisingly (to me), you "Liked" that post, as well as a subsequent one in which I provided more evidence of same. So do you throw the incendiary devices as one of your supervisors yells, "Burn it down! Burn that phuckin' house down!" Or do you drop your gear, walk back down to Hwy. 38 and hitch a ride home? Because if you tried to get between Dorner and those freakin' animals, you'd have gotten the same treatment as he did, and you know it.

None of that even gets into what if you were one of the cops on the scene when they opened fire on freakin' newspaper delivering ladies in the wrong colored, wrong make and wrong model truck, or the surfer dude just a couple of blocks away, again, in the wrong colored, wrong make and wrong model truck. Would you have drawn down on the idiots who opened fire? That's the only thing that could've conceivably been couched as "protecting and serving" We, The People. Would you have pushed the issue with your commanders if all they got was a slap on the wrist (which they didn't even get that - see below), like a suspension or freakin' desk duty for a week or a month? Would you have pushed for prosecution to the point of putting yourself in the media and telling The People what you saw against the orders of your superiors?

It is quite literally against the law to be a Constitution-compliant cop anymore. You're a tough guy with tons of experience that will help you survive the streets, but your Constitution-loving conscience will not be allowed to survive with your body. Day-by-day you will be confronted with orders to "not see" what you already saw, to abuse innocent people, whether physically or by denying their rights in one way or another (or several ways in just one event), to serve non-Constitution-compliant warrants, all the stuff that you expose as common-place in today's LE in many, if not most, of your posts on this forum. You ain't tough enough, Little Brother, to change all that stuff all by yourself, and I don't care what anyone else says about "90% of LEOs are great guys," if those 90% aren't rattin' out the supposed 10% of the "bad" ones, then they ain't no better than the bad ones as far as I'm concerned, and they ain't.

Like it or not, fair or not, many people when they see you approaching in your bright, shiny new uniform will see:

Daniel Harless

Officers Robert Chavez, Bobby Orosco, (no first name given) Hernandez; Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Deputies David Arredondo, Robert Rodriguez and Patrick Green - The utterly disgusting and degenerate anal rapists of Link Removed, three of whom are still definitely on the job, and the other three's status is being kept secret!!!

Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli (Killers of Kelly Thomas)

Johannes Mehserle (Killer of Oscar Grant)

Officers Matthew Lopez and Richard Hastings (Killers of Kenneth Harding Jr.)

Oakland Police Sergeant Patrick Gonzales (Killer of Gary King Jr.)

Officer Stephen Rivers (Just watch the video)

8 Cops who shot more than 100 rounds at two innocent paper ladies during the Dorner manhunt are all still on the job.

Officers Shaun Cowley and Kevin Salmon (Killers of Danielle Willard)

The platoon of unknown officers who murdered James Boyd for "illegal camping" in Albequerque, NM earlier this year.

I could go through many of your own posts to find more examples of what people will see as you approach them, Bob. You are setting yourself up for failure. Doesn't matter how pure your intentions are, or how long you avoid having to face ratting out the criminals among your ranks, you know as well as anyone here that they're there in every department of any significant size, and that sooner or later you'll witness criminality that will either put you at odds with your own conscience, or put you in the cross-hairs of those you stand up to, which will likely include their (and your) command structure. Tell me how you're going to protect your conscience and your chosen career without compromising one or the other. I never talk to you like a naive kid, Bob, you've certainly earned more respect than that from me, but thinking you can pull this one off is nothing short of total naivete. You are volunteering to play a game that can't be won in this day and age. I don't get it at all, because I know you do get just exactly what I'm saying.

Blues
 
With my belief that I know your heart, Bob, I believe you are setting yourself up for a failure of monumental proportions. Let's just start with the 2nd Amendment since we're on a gun forum. If I recall correctly, you've said that OC is not "legal" where you live. Does your understanding of the 2nd Amendment provide for the "legality" of government making OC illegal? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you don't believe it does, that you believe that to be an unconstitutional infringement. How about permission slips? Same thing is my guess. The first OC'er you encounter as an LEO, the first CC'er who doesn't have a permission slip, and BOOM! You have to choose between upholding your oath to the Constitution and keeping your job.

And please, you know how to read. You are intimately familiar with the English language. Don't say that you can't deem something unconstitutional unless and until the Supreme Court says it. You have a conscience, a (thankfully) very active and engaged one as a matter of fact. Everything you spend your time here writing about is based on your understanding of what the Constitution protects for We, The People, and you stand firmly on its words, not on the SCOTUS' wild and liberty-killing interpretations of it. When you say, "So help me God" or "I swear and/or affirm," you will be swearing to abide by what the Constitution says according to your own reading and understanding of its protections precisely because your conscience is so active and engaged. Events in very recent history can serve as flagrant examples of what will happen more and more as the civil authorities that you know cannot sustain any semblance of "law-abiding" status under the tyrants pulling its strings are called upon to quell the inevitable uprisings (Bundy Ranch anyone?) that will result from the ever-more egregious thefts of our liberties by our government. Let's just look at one from a part of the country with which I am very familiar with key places relevant to the overall event, and think about how you'd abide by your oath and protect people's rights in a plethora of ways that law enforcement bosses ordered, for all intents and purposes, a suspension of the Constitution for 6 days last year. The Christopher Dorner manhunt is the case, and these are just a few things off the top of my head that represent gross violations of constitutional rights of both unrelated citizens, and Chris Dorner.

Five SoCal counties were virtually occupied by a paramilitary force looking for one man. Los Angeles, Orange, San Diego, Riverside and San Bernardino Counties combine to cut a 37,633 sq. mile swath of the state in which many roads from one end of that area to the other were road blocked with drivers and passengers who had given zero probable cause to be contacted in any way by LE, were searched and questioned, many at gunpoint, some forced out of their vehicles to open trunks, lids or shells on pickup trucks, and boxes on commercial trucks. Tens of thousands of LEOs participated in this suspension of the Constitution. To this day, there is not one single report that I've ever seen or heard of, about an LEO who stood on his/her oath to say, "Respectfully Sir, I cannot carry out these orders to contact, harass, seize, question, or arrest people for whom I have no probable cause to believe they've committed a crime." Not one.

I used to live in Big Bear where Dorner was finally cornered and burned alive. I know exactly where the cabin was that he spent his last minutes of life in. There are two highways one can take to get up and down the mountain going to or from the Big Bear Lake area. The cabin he was in was very close to one of those highways, Hwy. 38 to the Eastern face of the range, and Hwy. 330 about 30 miles to the West. Both highways dump into Riverside. After a gun battle between Dorner and cops near the cabin, Dorner broke into the cabin that the cops eventually intentionally burnt to the ground with him in it. There are lots of unconstitutional actions we could discuss about that fact, but that's not what I'm drawing your attention to for now. While he's pinned down in that burning cabin just a few miles from Hwy. 38 and only a few miles from Big Bear Lake's Eastern shores, local streaming TV was showing the cluster coital act going on at the bottom of the hill at Hwy. 330 where there's at least three miles worth of cars backed up the hill on the two-lane hwy at rush hour as LE is still searching each and every vehicle coming down the mountain when radio traffic had been stating in no uncertain terms that Dorner was holed up in the cabin more than 60 miles away for a full hour before when I first saw that streaming video. At that time, the cabin was not only fully engulfed, but the roof was starting to collapse. That's how long after knowing exactly where Dorner was that they kept tyrannizing innocent citizens just for what? Kicks? Testing their resolve not to be tyrannized? Boy, if it was the latter, they sho' 'nuff failed that test miserably!

So what're you gonna do Bob? You're the guy who's ordered to throw the incendiary devices into the cabin. I proved the day it happened that it was murder by cop, not an attempt to capture and give any due process to the guy. Not surprisingly (to me), you "Liked" that post, as well as a subsequent one in which I provided more evidence of same. So do you throw the incendiary devices as one of your supervisors yells, "Burn it down! Burn that phuckin' house down!" Or do you drop your gear, walk back down to Hwy. 38 and hitch a ride home? Because if you tried to get between Dorner and those freakin' animals, you'd have gotten the same treatment as he did, and you know it.

None of that even gets into what if you were one of the cops on the scene when they opened fire on freakin' newspaper delivering ladies in the wrong colored, wrong make and wrong model truck, or the surfer dude just a couple of blocks away, again, in the wrong colored, wrong make and wrong model truck. Would you have drawn down on the idiots who opened fire? That's the only thing that could've conceivably been couched as "protecting and serving" We, The People. Would you have pushed the issue with your commanders if all they got was a slap on the wrist (which they didn't even get that - see below), like a suspension or freakin' desk duty for a week or a month? Would you have pushed for prosecution to the point of putting yourself in the media and telling The People what you saw against the orders of your superiors?

It is quite literally against the law to be a Constitution-compliant cop anymore. You're a tough guy with tons of experience that will help you survive the streets, but your Constitution-loving conscience will not be allowed to survive with your body. Day-by-day you will be confronted with orders to "not see" what you already saw, to abuse innocent people, whether physically or by denying their rights in one way or another (or several ways in just one event), to serve non-Constitution-compliant warrants, all the stuff that you expose as common-place in today's LE in many, if not most, of your posts on this forum. You ain't tough enough, Little Brother, to change all that stuff all by yourself, and I don't care what anyone else says about "90% of LEOs are great guys," if those 90% aren't rattin' out the supposed 10% of the "bad" ones, then they ain't no better than the bad ones as far as I'm concerned, and they ain't.

Like it or not, fair or not, many people when they see you approaching in your bright, shiny new uniform will see:

Daniel Harless

Officers Robert Chavez, Bobby Orosco, (no first name given) Hernandez; Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Deputies David Arredondo, Robert Rodriguez and Patrick Green - The utterly disgusting and degenerate anal rapists of Link Removed, three of whom are still definitely on the job, and the other three's status is being kept secret!!!

Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli (Killers of Kelly Thomas)

Johannes Mehserle (Killer of Oscar Grant)

Officers Matthew Lopez and Richard Hastings (Killers of Kenneth Harding Jr.)

Oakland Police Sergeant Patrick Gonzales (Killer of Gary King Jr.)

Officer Stephen Rivers (Just watch the video)

8 Cops who shot more than 100 rounds at two innocent paper ladies during the Dorner manhunt are all still on the job.

Officers Shaun Cowley and Kevin Salmon (Killers of Danielle Willard)

The platoon of unknown officers who murdered James Boyd for "illegal camping" in Albequerque, NM earlier this year.

I could go through many of your own posts to find more examples of what people will see as you approach them, Bob. You are setting yourself up for failure. Doesn't matter how pure your intentions are, or how long you avoid having to face ratting out the criminals among your ranks, you know as well as anyone here that they're there in every department of any significant size, and that sooner or later you'll witness criminality that will either put you at odds with your own conscience, or put you in the cross-hairs of those you stand up to, which will likely include their (and your) command structure. Tell me how you're going to protect your conscience and your chosen career without compromising one or the other. I never talk to you like a naive kid, Bob, you've certainly earned more respect than that from me, but thinking you can pull this one off is nothing short of total naivete. You are volunteering to play a game that can't be won in this day and age. I don't get it at all, because I know you do get just exactly what I'm saying.

Blues

I'm not going to argue your points, Blues... b/c I can't really. You're right about the difficulties that lie ahead of me. As to the specific example you brought up about OC, fortunately for my conscience, the State in which I plan to become an LEO has not criminalized the practice. As to Dorner, no, I would not obey the order to burn a human alive... no matter how evil they may be. I will not burn a human alive, I will quit on the spot. As to shooting innocent people such as those ladies... again, I would have never done anything like that. I have far better control than those jack@sses... I know when to engage and when not to, they didn't. Yes, I will be viewed by the public negatively... I will do what I can to positively effect those I encounter, that's the best I can do. As to setting myself up for failure, you may just be right, buddy. Like I said, if I can't do the job in accordance with my conscience... I will quit and carry on with life.

I appreciate your rebuttal, Blues. I suppose the only way to explain why I'm doing is to ask, have you ever wanted to do something so strongly that you just can't not do it? I am fully prepared to not make a career out of being an LEO... but, I'm going to pursue the en devour. It wouldn't be the first time I've done something stupid.
 
Alright, as some of you may know I was Active Duty USAF but recently separated. Now, believe it or not some of you will be surprised to learn that I am currently pursuing my Criminal Justice degree. Yep, that's right... as of now, I actually plan on becoming an LEO. I know, I know... with all of the seemingly anti-cop stuff I post that would seem like hypocrisy but, I am not anti-cop but rather PRO-CONSTITUTION (thanks Navy). So, I have zero issue pointing out all the wrong things the police do b/c I feel that is the duty of Freemen to keep our PUBLIC SERVANTS held accountable.

Moreover, much like joining the military I felt that to know what the hell I was talking about and to gain valuable perspective on things (like war) I needed to stop talking about it and start being about it. The same applies to LE, I want to know what it's like to be one and I swear on my very being that I will dutifully uphold the very Constitution I have sworn to protect. I fully expect to not make many friends and to be somewhat of an outcast as an LEO... I'm okay with that. I will discharge my duties as honorably as I possibly can and will uphold the law insofar as it doesn't infringe upon The People's Rights without abiding by Due Process. It will be challenging and it will test my conscience daily but, I feel that I have the best chance of protecting We The People "from the inside" so to speak.

I expect this to draw criticism and possibly cause some of you to change your minds about me, however wrongly you may feel about my decisions they are my decisions. I will continue to fight for Individual Liberty and yes, if it comes down to "doing my job" or Standing With The People... I will hop the barrier and Stand With You. I challenged my every being by serving in the military and that did not change who I am, I don't expect becoming an LEO will either. If I need to quit b/c I can't take it anymore than so be it...

If you have criticisms, you may voice them now.

WHAT A FRIGGIN HYPOCRITE!!! You have a lot of nerve!
-
Just kidding. I think it's a good Idea to get your foot in the door and try and add some conservative reasoning into an increasingly questionable industry. That's exactly why I am going into education. The difference between us is that you probably still have knees, back etc suitable to pass the physical requirements for entrance into LE, whereas after 25 years of LE on the water I couldn't bear the thought of trying to pass a PT test.
 
As to the specific example you brought up about OC, fortunately for my conscience, the State in which I plan to become an LEO has not criminalized the practice.
Even if it had, as a LEO in a state where it is not legal, you are probably not going to deal with someone whose ONLY crime is the open carry of a gun. Likely as not you'd never have to deal with another pro-constitution person forcing you to arrest him for OC'ing. I think that a large % of people (no scientific links or citations Blues) who are conservative and support the Constitution also happen to be law abiding citizens.
-
So the short of it is that if you roll up on someone OC'ing, (legal or not) it doesn't matter. As a LEO I would prefer it, fewer surprises.
 
I appreciate your rebuttal, Blues. I suppose the only way to explain why I'm doing is to ask, have you ever wanted to do something so strongly that you just can't not do it?

Yep, lots of times. Felt that way a couple of months ago when I tried to drive to Bunkerville, NV to the Bundy Siege. Broke down, and oddly enough, as it turned out, I came to see the breakdown as a gift from God for much the same reasons as I would see unforeseen circumstances preventing you from becoming a cop as a gift. You see, militia and Oath Keepers nearly came to firing on each other.... a few times actually. Both sides accuse the other of cowardice, disloyalty, theft, treason etc., a lot like what you will inevitably have to face, and be greatly disappointed by, amongst people you've come to think of as brothers, or citizens whose loyalties you once shared but have built an unnecessary wedge between by trying to divide those loyalties between government and citizen. I've said it before, so it shouldn't come as any surprise to you, but I believe that the tug of war between government power and the natural rights of the citizen creates a permanent and unchangeable us-and-them reality. The only thing anyone with a true Patriot's conscience like you accomplishes by trying to walk that knife's edge is sliced up feet.

Like I said, if I can't do the job in accordance with my conscience... I will quit and carry on with life.

Probably not what you want to hear, but I hope and pray that your conscience is challenged to the point of quitting within the first minute of the first day of the Academy. I like you that much.

Blues
 
Good going gunnerbob!

May I ask why pick Criminal Justice degree?

I'm fascinated by law, the proper and improper use/enforcement thereof. Studying Criminal Justice is giving me a great opportunity to dig into how and why LE has changed in this country and where the field expects itself to go in the future. I am learning the intricacies of law and violations of it, getting well-versed, so to speak. I also have the opportunity to speak first-hand with current and prior LEO, visit corrections facilities and discuss with classmates how and why I believe many aspects of our system are flawed. We have debates every class and I am, as some of you would imagine, very vocal and challenge the status quo at nearly every turn. In this, I hope I can influence those around me who are interested in not only prosecuting criminals but more importantly, protecting Citizen's Rights while doing so. It's fair to assume, I am thus far the professors most interesting student this semester. I actually had one student comment on/question me as to how I knew what I knew already about the subject at hand, this person seemed impressed and eager to learn from me, believe it or not. Maybe, just maybe... I can effect positive change for We The People during the time I'm going down this path....
 
I'm fascinated by law, the proper and improper use/enforcement thereof.

If you need to do an interesting paper (interesting based on what you posted above) Look into 14USC89 and then into the authority the Coast Guard has with regards to LE. In short, only the Secret Service has more authority, simply because they can take action on foreign soil.
 
I'm fascinated by law, the proper and improper use/enforcement thereof. Studying Criminal Justice is giving me a great opportunity to dig into how and why LE has changed in this country and where the field expects itself to go in the future. I am learning the intricacies of law and violations of it, getting well-versed, so to speak. I also have the opportunity to speak first-hand with current and prior LEO, visit corrections facilities and discuss with classmates how and why I believe many aspects of our system are flawed. We have debates every class and I am, as some of you would imagine, very vocal and challenge the status quo at nearly every turn. In this, I hope I can influence those around me who are interested in not only prosecuting criminals but more importantly, protecting Citizen's Rights while doing so. It's fair to assume, I am thus far the professors most interesting student this semester. I actually had one student comment/question me as to how I knew what I knew already about the subject at hand, this person seemed impressed and eager to learn from me, believe it or not. Maybe, just maybe... I can effect positive change for We The People during the time I'm going down this path....

Most people aren't that articulate when asked that question. Good on you!

Most people I ask why they are going for a CJ degree they answer that it will make them a better candidate to become LEOs. In truth it's actually not a great degree to become a LEO. LE agencies don't really care what your degree is in as long as you have a good GPA and has the proper college accreditation. If your passion is the LE course work go for it but if something happens that you can't become a LEO or you are injured and can longer be a LEO what will you do afterwards with that degree. If you want to move up in rank they will begin to look more closely at what your degree is in, such as business/people management type of degrees.
 
Most people aren't that articulate when asked that question. Good on you!

Most people I ask why they are going for a CJ degree they answer that it will make them a better candidate to become LEOs. In truth it's actually not a great degree to become a LEO. LE agencies don't really care what your degree is in as long as you have a good GPA and has the proper college accreditation. If your passion is the LE course work go for it but if something happens that you can't become a LEO or you are injured and can longer be a LEO what will you do afterwards with that degree. If you want to move up in rank they will begin to look more closely at what your degree is in, such as business/people management type of degrees.

Yeah, I had already been informed that a CRJ degree isn't at all necessary to be an LEO nor does it get you any 1-ups. The Psychiatrist I had been seeing on AD was a former LE Psychiatrist and told me that a Business/Management degree would get me further. I also plan to get my Gunsmithing Certification, that's my back-up career plan... Of course, if I really need to I can go back into the Logistics field... I've got all the experience I need to do that job. Or, maybe I'll just mooch off my Wife... she's going into the Medical field, heh.
 
Alright, as some of you may know I was Active Duty USAF but recently separated. Now, believe it or not some of you will be surprised to learn that I am currently pursuing my Criminal Justice degree. Yep, that's right... as of now, I actually plan on becoming an LEO. I know, I know... with all of the seemingly anti-cop stuff I post that would seem like hypocrisy but, I am not anti-cop but rather PRO-CONSTITUTION (thanks Navy). So, I have zero issue pointing out all the wrong things the police do b/c I feel that is the duty of Freemen to keep our PUBLIC SERVANTS held accountable.

Moreover, much like joining the military I felt that to know what the hell I was talking about and to gain valuable perspective on things (like war) I needed to stop talking about it and start being about it. The same applies to LE, I want to know what it's like to be one and I swear on my very being that I will dutifully uphold the very Constitution I have sworn to protect. I fully expect to not make many friends and to be somewhat of an outcast as an LEO... I'm okay with that. I will discharge my duties as honorably as I possibly can and will uphold the law insofar as it doesn't infringe upon The People's Rights without abiding by Due Process. It will be challenging and it will test my conscience daily but, I feel that I have the best chance of protecting We The People "from the inside" so to speak.

I expect this to draw criticism and possibly cause some of you to change your minds about me, however wrongly you may feel about my decisions they are my decisions. I will continue to fight for Individual Liberty and yes, if it comes down to "doing my job" or Standing With The People... I will hop the barrier and Stand With You. I challenged my every being by serving in the military and that did not change who I am, I don't expect becoming an LEO will either. If I need to quit b/c I can't take it anymore than so be it...

If you have criticisms, you may voice them now.

There are a few of us cops out there who are pro constitution, pro gun, and pro actually being a public SERVANT. Some of us who don't drink the kool aid, so to speak. We NEED to deepen our ranks! We need more who are out for the common good not on a power trip or out to "run and gun". Officers who realize that having pleasant conversation with citizens and not for taking complaints makes for a successful day!


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You can get a degree in bovine feces studies...it really doesn't matter initially. Where it comes into play is moving up the chain of command. Getting a foot in the door is key...there are still some places where experience matters. (Along with education)


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Alright, as some of you may know I was Active Duty USAF but recently separated. Now, believe it or not some of you will be surprised to learn that I am currently pursuing my Criminal Justice degree. Yep, that's right... as of now, I actually plan on becoming an LEO. I know, I know... with all of the seemingly anti-cop stuff I post that would seem like hypocrisy but, I am not anti-cop but rather PRO-CONSTITUTION (thanks Navy). So, I have zero issue pointing out all the wrong things the police do b/c I feel that is the duty of Freemen to keep our PUBLIC SERVANTS held accountable.

Moreover, much like joining the military I felt that to know what the hell I was talking about and to gain valuable perspective on things (like war) I needed to stop talking about it and start being about it. The same applies to LE, I want to know what it's like to be one and I swear on my very being that I will dutifully uphold the very Constitution I have sworn to protect. I fully expect to not make many friends and to be somewhat of an outcast as an LEO... I'm okay with that. I will discharge my duties as honorably as I possibly can and will uphold the law insofar as it doesn't infringe upon The People's Rights without abiding by Due Process. It will be challenging and it will test my conscience daily but, I feel that I have the best chance of protecting We The People "from the inside" so to speak.

I expect this to draw criticism and possibly cause some of you to change your minds about me, however wrongly you may feel about my decisions they are my decisions. I will continue to fight for Individual Liberty and yes, if it comes down to "doing my job" or Standing With The People... I will hop the barrier and Stand With You. I challenged my every being by serving in the military and that did not change who I am, I don't expect becoming an LEO will either. If I need to quit b/c I can't take it anymore than so be it...

If you have criticisms, you may voice them now.

Gunner,

As I've gotten to know you through your posts on this forum, you have shown me that you are a man of conviction and honor. I know whatever field you go into, you will go into with these values.

With that said, my first reaction was surprise because of some of the posts you have had against militant, jack booted thugs who wear a uniform and a badge.

I never go fully with my first reaction when an important decision is to be made. Therefore, I thought about it and share many of the concerns that Blues has mentioned so eloquently (as is his style).

However, I also know through my limited view with the Reserves that there are decent, honorable, Constitution supporting LE in the ranks. If there aren't more of them, than there will naturally be less of them. So, my response to you will be different than Blues.

If you truly are going to do this, then I would make some recommendations (some of which have been stated, some haven't).
-- See if you can shadow a LEO ... experience first hand what his daily job functions are
-- Think twice about a degree in CJ. You may get more mileage out of another degree.
-- Consider becoming a deputy under a Sheriff. A Sheriff is the only Constitutional LE and as such, most must take an oath to protect and uphold the Constitution.
-- Keep your political views among those in college, the academy, and at work to yourself.

I wish you all the best and hope and pray that this is not an exercise in futility for you. My hope is that you are able to execute the duties of your eventual job with the same honor and conviction that I know you have.
 
I think it will be very interesting for you to see the other side of it. Like most, I think that a few bad ones sully the good and fair ones. I also think that law enforcement, just like the military, sometimes gets stuck with one-size-fits-all type solutions, that don't work well, but for whatever reason, they end up getting stuck with them... Anyways, looking forward to your future posts.
 

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