The designer round: .40S&W

[jcreek]

There is a reason that most state police agencies issue guns chambered in .40S&W. Designed to deliver substantial energy into the bg, and still permit mag capacity of 12 rounds or greater,

To be fair a lot of police departments are going back to the 9mm

I see cops moving from .40 to .45 way more often than moving back down. With guns like the FNX-45 and FNP-45 that hold 15+1, if you can handle the recoil and the gun fits you there's really no reason not to. I prefer compact frame guns so I stick to my G23 mostly.

 

[CharlesMorrison]

Ill stick with my M&P .40 cal. 15 +1 capacity of some hot 155/165 grain hellfire!


Sent from behind enemy lines.

 

[Treo]

I don't know that moving to a .45 from a .40 is the "oppisite" but I get what is being said, the point I was going for was that many police departments are moving away from the .40. (although apparently DHS is not)


Again, in my case I really don’t notice that the .40 has all that much recoil Vs. the 9 mm. I have two S&Ws a 6906 and a 4006 that I carry interchangeably based on what I’m wearing. They are in most respects the same gun just one is a 9 and one is a .40 and one holds 12 rounds in the magazine and the other holds 11. I can’t say that I feel “under gunned” with either.

 

[gunnerbob]

FWIW, the Durham, NC police department carries the M&P 45.

 

[dad45acp]

FWIW, the Durham, NC police department carries the M&P 45.

Everybody has gone to the .45 unless budget issues curtail that for cheaper ammo and the false sense of safety of being able to carry more ammo. The latter is dependent on the department's firearm instructor and what their considerations and opinions are on ammo. As I said here and across the country (not to mention the Marines) are jumping on the .45 bandwagon.

 

[dad45acp]

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Interesting graphic. But I will say for the .45, is that it's tendency is to not over penetrate, thus it's forces stay inside the body which causes greater trauma and stopping power effectiveness.

 

[gunnerbob]

Take this at its face value:

 

[jcreek]

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Interesting graphic. But I will say for the .45, is that it's tendency is to not over penetrate, thus it's forces stay inside the body which causes greater trauma and stopping power effectiveness.

Idk how much faith I put in that graphic. Those figures might be true for something hard like a vehicle door but on soft human tissue, velocity has way more to do with exit would size than bullet diameter. Compare a 5.56 to a .45 ACP.

 

[jcreek]

FWIW, the Durham, NC police department carries the M&P 45.

Everybody has gone to the .45 unless budget issues curtail that for cheaper ammo and the false sense of safety of being able to carry more ammo. The latter is dependent on the department's firearm instructor and what their considerations and opinions are on ammo. As I said here and across the country (not to mention the Marines) are jumping on the .45 bandwagon.

The Marines aren't moving back to the .45 for anything other than nostalgic reasons. The requests from the SF community to move back to a 1911 platform has overwhelmed them. If they were making the move for tactical or "stopping power" reasons they would've gone with something like the FNX that's holds 15 rds. The old timers just want their 1911s back.

 

[dad45acp]

Idk how much faith I put in that graphic. Those figures might be true for something hard like a vehicle door but on soft human tissue, velocity has way more to do with exit would size than bullet diameter. Compare a 5.56 to a .45 ACP.

Then we're comparing pistol to rifle ammo then....but velocity is still only one element to a round's effectiveness.

 

[BIGJOHN621]

Idk how much faith I put in that graphic. Those figures might be true for something hard like a vehicle door but on soft human tissue, velocity has way more to do with exit would size than bullet diameter. Compare a 5.56 to a .45 ACP.

I agree. Actually the shock cavity upon entry into the body is the killer and that is increased exponentially with high speed. There is a different dynamic when you put the energy (based on pure speed) of a rifle round into the equation. Or, try this one: Double Tap makes a 10mm that is 125 grains of Barnes Copper HP that comes out of a Glock 29 at 1600 FPS. That round would make a bigger overall / exit hole than the one in the chart shown.

 

[vernsimpson]

Since I live in MN and people wear layers in the winter, I looked for something that could stop a BG and not just make him mad. I would have went with a .45 but I had chemo and this caused some weakness and neuropathy in my hands. So I went with a .40. I have since strengthen my hands but have decided to stay with my G23.

 

[dad45acp]

The Marines aren't moving back to the .45 for anything other than nostalgic reasons. The requests from the SF community to move back to a 1911 platform has overwhelmed them. If they were making the move for tactical or "stopping power" reasons they would've gone with something like the FNX that's holds 15 rds. The old timers just want their 1911s back.

Agreed, but many say that the 1911 is the best pistol platform ever made and are happy to see it back in the military. Well, I don't carry a 1911 but can appreciate that notion anyway.

 

[gejoslin]

Heres a ballistic gel chart with the 10mm in it.

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[dad45acp]

Heres a ballistic gel chart with the 10mm in it.

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:lol::lol::lol:

 

[jcreek]

Heres a ballistic gel chart with the 10mm in it.

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Weird, I didn't know they made 10mm API rounds...lol

 

[BigSlick]

If you rotate that image 90 degrees to the right the 10 MM looks like an atomic explosion. Ouch!

 

[jcreek]

If you rotate that image 90 degrees to the right the 10 MM looks like an atomic explosion. Ouch!

That's because that's exactly what it is lol. Photoshopped over an already impressive wound cavity.

 

[gejoslin]

Ballistic 10 mm in slow motion.

 

[tricolordad]

Detailed commentary on the .40S&W and why IMO I've always considered it a "designer round."

Teats, Bulls and the .40 S&W | The Bang Switch

Sooooo let me get this straight...you consider .40 S&W a "designer round" because it's a modified 10mm? That's a pretty weak argument. You posted on your website, in response to viewers, about why you don't feature .40 guns on your show.

Consider this: The 9x19mm Parabellum was developed from the 7.65×21mm Parabellum, which was derived from the 7.65×25mm Borchardt (C-93 pistol.) Your argument is basically that the FBI had a good round in the 9x19, and that shortening the 10mm (10x25mm) by 3mm to 10x22mm, creating the .40 S&W was unnecessary. Well, considering that the 9mm was created by shortening the original round by 6mm, I'd say that only having to shorten the 10mm auto by half that (and likewise, reduce the poweder charge a bit as the full load is pretty unmanageable and would be more so in a smaller handgun), thus creating a powerful package with more energy and penetration than the 9mm of the day was a good choice when clearly, as you reported, Platt was able to continue his murder spree because the 9mm cartridge used by the agents was so ineffective that it stopped an inch short from his heart.

Your post on this site and article on your website is purely opinion. I don't see why you posted it here. Is there a reason, or are you just trying to start a caliber war?