ITCH
New member
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/988364/thumbs/r-CHRIS-DORNER-large570.jpg?6 Thanks for saving our tax Dollars and waiving your rights to a trial !!!
Thank You
- Thread starter ITCH
- Start date
sdprof
Active member
Here's a link to the story, not the picture: Chris Dorner Dead: Manhunt Ends In Deadly Cabin Shootout
ITCH
New member
And they wonder why our Second Amendment means so much to a lot of us. It is because we half to protect our selfs against crazy people like this and protect our families. Death and someone dieing is never a pretty site and it is truly sad when a persons life is loss. At least know one else will die by his hands. Anger and how you may feel is never a reason to kill anyone.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I don't get this thread at all. I'm no fan of Christopher Dorner's, but in less than two hours of the guy being cornered inside a remote cabin, the cops purposely set the place on fire and burned the guy alive. Why? Does the Constitution get suspended whenever a particularly bad guy is being pursued? The scanner traffic proves that the cops made the decision to incinerate the guy (listen to the first media player from 29:25 to the end). We're supposed to be happy and thank the Gestapo of Amerika who trashed the Constitution to burn a *suspect* alive? Should the government give as much loyalty and adherence to our 2nd Amendment rights as they gave to Dorner's due process rights this afternoon? 'Cause y'all may as well just start turnin' in your guns tomorrow if you think one is any less important than the other.
A thread that says "Thank You" to the government for murdering a suspect instead of arresting, charging, trying and convicting him according to constitutional processes on a site devoted to protecting constitutional rights is a total oxymoron. Am I really the only one who sees this?
Blues
A thread that says "Thank You" to the government for murdering a suspect instead of arresting, charging, trying and convicting him according to constitutional processes on a site devoted to protecting constitutional rights is a total oxymoron. Am I really the only one who sees this?
Blues
ITCH
New member
I could be wrong but it was my understanding that he took the easy way out and shot his self before there was even a fire started. When you use your anger and your own personal feelings to kill someone and you just keep going around killing more people and then you are firing a fire arm at people who are trying to talk to you it is kinda hard to offer someone like this guy a trial of any kind. The Government wants to invade the second amendment rights of millions because of people like Christopher Dorner's actions. We are all entitled to how we see things. But then again we don't know all the facts. I was merely stating if he shot his self then he did America a favor. Know one else will Die by his hands and maybe millions of other people like me wont get blamed for his actions. I would hate to take someones life to life is a very precious thing. But if it came down to my life or my families life. I would not have a problem taking a life and I would not lose any sleep over it either.
Silvergoose
New member
I agree with BluesStringer. The police became the decision making entity in this case. If Dorner shot and killed it should have been left up to the courts, not some police officer to give the cammand to burn the ********* cabin down. Hell our own militrary must get permission to shoot at enemies setting IED's.
With the all of the non lethal means we have of surveillance, removal of suspects from buildings why was the order given to burn a man alive( as far as we know), who is the man behind the curtain that gave the command? Is this the overall plan for dealing with people that may go outside of the law, Burn now ask questions latter!
If Mr Dorner killed other people then in a trial of law his faith should have been announced and punishment should follow.
With the all of the non lethal means we have of surveillance, removal of suspects from buildings why was the order given to burn a man alive( as far as we know), who is the man behind the curtain that gave the command? Is this the overall plan for dealing with people that may go outside of the law, Burn now ask questions latter!
If Mr Dorner killed other people then in a trial of law his faith should have been announced and punishment should follow.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
So if he shot himself before the fire ever started, why start the fire? The fact is, neither you or the cops on the scene knew whether he shot himself or not. They did, however, know that he was wounded as you'll hear in the scanner captures I linked to in my last post.
If he was contained in a cabin in Seven Oaks on Hwy 38, why were the cops searching every car at gunpoint coming off the mountain 30 or so miles away at the bottom of Hwy. 330?
The same jack-booted-thug mentality that set that cabin on fire also opened fire without warning on two different pick-up trucks made by two different manufacturers that were two different colors, neither of which matched the make/color of Dorner's truck, both of which were occupied by people of different races than the suspect, the blue Toyota by two Hispanic women and the black Honda by a white surfer-dude, fire laid down by two different police departments, both of which were outside of their respective jurisdictions. All across southern CA roadblocks were set up with more illegal searches dictated at rifle-point. It's a miracle that no one died at the insane hands of LEOs from every single county south of the Ventura County line, but at least two were injured by gun fire and one was injured by being rammed by a patrol unit and shot at, only the fact that those cops couldn't shoot straight is the only reason he wasn't injured or killed by gun fire.
All that caused by one man on a crime spree, and though cops certainly had good reasons to pursue him, they had no right or reason to engage in all the lawlessness described above, nor did they have a right or good reason (other than anger for one of their own going rogue) to murder him by incineration!
So who engaged in the more significant crime spree? If you only go by a body count, then I guess Dorner did, though in our system of government, proving that he did indeed kill those people is supposed to come before the state kills him. You know, all that happy horseshit about due process and stuff. But if you go by how many constitutional rights were violated, how many were shot at for no reason whatsoever, how much collateral damage was inflicted in those shootings, then southern California's law enforcement agencies' score-card is much more weighty than Dorner's.
These are the same people who will be sent to confiscate our guns if/when Obama and Feinstein get their way. I'm not justifying his response, but if we believe that the "manifesto" was authored by Dorner, this whole thing started because he took a stand against the LAPD's thuggery and got betrayed and fired for trying to do the right thing. This whole debacle exposes more about the prevalent thug mentality of law enforcement in this country than it does about one guy who went off the rails. The one guy is indicative of a very small segment of our society. The cops' reactions to him are indicative of systemic problems with society. If you're going to "thank" Dorner for anything, you should thank him for exposing that, because as a gun owner, you may face some of the same decisions he faced over the last week, only unlike him, you will not have brought it upon yourself and you will not be trained either mentally or physically to deal with it.
Blues
If he was contained in a cabin in Seven Oaks on Hwy 38, why were the cops searching every car at gunpoint coming off the mountain 30 or so miles away at the bottom of Hwy. 330?
The same jack-booted-thug mentality that set that cabin on fire also opened fire without warning on two different pick-up trucks made by two different manufacturers that were two different colors, neither of which matched the make/color of Dorner's truck, both of which were occupied by people of different races than the suspect, the blue Toyota by two Hispanic women and the black Honda by a white surfer-dude, fire laid down by two different police departments, both of which were outside of their respective jurisdictions. All across southern CA roadblocks were set up with more illegal searches dictated at rifle-point. It's a miracle that no one died at the insane hands of LEOs from every single county south of the Ventura County line, but at least two were injured by gun fire and one was injured by being rammed by a patrol unit and shot at, only the fact that those cops couldn't shoot straight is the only reason he wasn't injured or killed by gun fire.
All that caused by one man on a crime spree, and though cops certainly had good reasons to pursue him, they had no right or reason to engage in all the lawlessness described above, nor did they have a right or good reason (other than anger for one of their own going rogue) to murder him by incineration!
So who engaged in the more significant crime spree? If you only go by a body count, then I guess Dorner did, though in our system of government, proving that he did indeed kill those people is supposed to come before the state kills him. You know, all that happy horseshit about due process and stuff. But if you go by how many constitutional rights were violated, how many were shot at for no reason whatsoever, how much collateral damage was inflicted in those shootings, then southern California's law enforcement agencies' score-card is much more weighty than Dorner's.
These are the same people who will be sent to confiscate our guns if/when Obama and Feinstein get their way. I'm not justifying his response, but if we believe that the "manifesto" was authored by Dorner, this whole thing started because he took a stand against the LAPD's thuggery and got betrayed and fired for trying to do the right thing. This whole debacle exposes more about the prevalent thug mentality of law enforcement in this country than it does about one guy who went off the rails. The one guy is indicative of a very small segment of our society. The cops' reactions to him are indicative of systemic problems with society. If you're going to "thank" Dorner for anything, you should thank him for exposing that, because as a gun owner, you may face some of the same decisions he faced over the last week, only unlike him, you will not have brought it upon yourself and you will not be trained either mentally or physically to deal with it.
Blues
ITCH
New member
Where does it say that he did not light the fire? I understand how others may feel about the situation and respect what others have to say about it even if I may not always agree. That is the good thing about living in a country where we all have a right to voice our own opinions. I agree with some of the information that has been discussed but there are many answers none of us will ever know. That being said in regards to Waco Texas it was my understanding that David Koresh set that place on fire I could be wrong but that is another entire story of its own. I am not stating the Authorities were right and I am not stating that the Government is right either. I am merely stating how I see some of the things that have happen.
jfisch
Resident Troll
How can people stand up and say "I demand the right to the 2nd Amendment!" and then turn around and deny fellow citizens the right to the Fifth and Sixth? Regardless of how much of an ******* he was, being an ******* doesn't negate your right to the constitution. Sure I might understand how someone would feel differently if, and only if, it was one of their family members that had been killed but thank God I don't have experience with that so who knows?
There is no picking and choosing here. It's all or nothing.
There is no picking and choosing here. It's all or nothing.
CapGun
Active member
Does anyone, except those on the scene really know what happened? Let's not jump to conclusions.
Waco, Ruby Ridge, a tremendous trashing of civil rights and complete lawlessness perpetrated by our Federal Government, from which we do not need protection from via the Second Amendment. As long as we have a bolt action rifle with 3 rounds we should just consider ourselves lucky we can go out and blast Bambi's brains out.. at least for now.
Just like Waco, Ruby Ridge and now Bear Lake... in all cases the highly trained forces we will have to depend on for protection:no: could have just waited the situation out. Not as much fun but much more lawful!
Waco, Ruby Ridge, a tremendous trashing of civil rights and complete lawlessness perpetrated by our Federal Government, from which we do not need protection from via the Second Amendment. As long as we have a bolt action rifle with 3 rounds we should just consider ourselves lucky we can go out and blast Bambi's brains out.. at least for now.
Just like Waco, Ruby Ridge and now Bear Lake... in all cases the highly trained forces we will have to depend on for protection:no: could have just waited the situation out. Not as much fun but much more lawful!
In the first link that Blues posted, above, you can hear the thug law enforcement commander give the order to burn... " Go with the burn."
In Waco, the tank that they drove into the wall of the structure, fired some device capable of being incendiary, that caught the place on fire.
LEO/Military caused both fires. Fact.
jfisch
Resident Troll
He was an ex-cop and I don't think he was necessarily insane... he was just really pissed off. That happens sometimes when us humans feel that we have been deeply wronged and humiliated. What he did probably (hopefully) seems insane to most but I'm no doctor. I think he was fully aware of what he was doing and the pain he was trying to cause to the families of those people. Insane, as far as I know, means you don't really know what you're doing. Anger is not insanity. Maybe a psych evaluation could have picked up on that anger but most people are really good at hiding it.
CapGun
Active member
If what you say is actually what happened then I certainly agree with you and the rest of your post.
BTW Blues I love your bumper sticker. I went to the website and they do have a T-shirt with that on it. I will be ordering one. That shirt and the one from GOA that states that "It's a right not a privilege" ought to raise some ire or interest at the gym.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Here's more radio traffic to prove that the intention of the LEOs on the scene at the cabin was to burn it down with Dorner inside. *Language warning*
Link Removed
The video was shot either during or immediately after the initial gun-battle was happening at or near the cabin. I was watching the KCAL stream online from which this clip was taken. About an hour later, the cabin was fully engulfed in flames.
I'm not engaging in conjecture about what happened at the cabin. I do not relieve Dorner of any responsibility for what happened, but I do contend that it would not have mattered what he did, all the evidence points to the conclusion that he would've been killed on sight even if he was attempting to surrender. You don't order your cohorts to "F'n burn the MF'er!" if you're willing to accept his surrender.
Blues
Link Removed
The video was shot either during or immediately after the initial gun-battle was happening at or near the cabin. I was watching the KCAL stream online from which this clip was taken. About an hour later, the cabin was fully engulfed in flames.
I'm not engaging in conjecture about what happened at the cabin. I do not relieve Dorner of any responsibility for what happened, but I do contend that it would not have mattered what he did, all the evidence points to the conclusion that he would've been killed on sight even if he was attempting to surrender. You don't order your cohorts to "F'n burn the MF'er!" if you're willing to accept his surrender.
Blues
jfisch
Resident Troll
I agree with you 100% but to play the devil's advocate here he was a former cop... who killed cops... and from what I know of the LEO community they take that stuff pretty personal. I'm not saying they were right at all... but I do think they let their emotions get the best of them. I'm not about to condemn them as "bad people" (even though you've never used those words) I think they were simply being "people" caught up in a tense, emotional situation.
I don't agree with what they did... but I understand.
gunnerbob
PEW Professional
Are you sh!ttin' me...?
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I guess I haven't been clear then. They are bad people. I don't give a damn about their emotions. If that had been my mother in the blue Toyota that got shot twice in the back, would I get the same level of emotional understanding from the PD if I went after the shooters because I took that "stuff pretty personal?" Nope, they'd put me out of my misery just like they did Dorner.
I take it pretty personal when my rights are violated. What if I ran one of those road-blocks where they were doing illegal searches at gunpoint? Think my emotional attachment to my rights would've been understood by any of the thugs that only managed not to kill three innocent people because of their bad aim? Hardly. That thin blue line crap only goes so far. Like if they're all brothers and sisters and want to hang out together after-hours instead of with people who don't understand them, fine, I've got no problem with that. But when they start shooting innocents up without any warning and start burning suspects alive, and don't hold each other to the oaths they all took, screw 'em, they are the enemy, no more deserving of understanding than you or I would be, or than Dorner should be to all those idiots on FaceBook mourning for him etc. He may have deserved to die, but he deserved every bit as much to have his rights protected by the people sworn to do just that. Deciding that he "deserved" to die comes after a trial, not before the arrest.
Blues
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