Staying out of Jail...

[MBGuy]

I keep reading about law abiding citizens that use their guns to protect themselves or family and end up in jail. In many cases, it takes months and thousands of dollars in legal fees to be cleared. What is the secret to staying out of jail? What justifies a shooting in the eyes of the prosecutors so that they will quickly come to that conclusion instead of taking their time and making the whole thing go thru the courts. It seems like Horry Co in SC is terrible with this. If you have a CCW permit and protect yourself against an armed person, why do we end up in jail and having to post bond?

 

[Piece Corps]

I just posted an answer in another thread. Many self-defense cases do NOT end up with the shooter in jail with large attorney fees. That CAN happen, but I don't think it's the norm. In 4 cases here in Central Florida, none of the shooters was chagred with anything, and the shootings were ruled justifiable. In one case, a guy walked into a convenience store and witnessed a BG savagely beating the clerk. He walked out to his truck, got his gun, walked back inside and shot the assailant to death. And even though he made some stupid statements to the police, he was never charged with anything. In Florida, if you think that someone else's life is in danger, you may use lethal force.

In any case, it pays to have a lawyer's business card in your pocket. And join a group like Link Removed so that you have an initial support system in place IF you ever have to use your weapon. And learn what NOT to say after the incident. Keeping your mouth shut is very important.

 

[2beararms]

Of course there is no guarantees, even in a state like Florida which has very favorable laws but I believe if you use common sense you give yourself the best chance.

Is the threat real? A good shoot is against a real threat not just paranoia, however don't delay in making the decision, just be as certain as you can be

Do you actually fear for your life? If not, do you have a less than lethal alternative, if you do think about using it instead, but again, don't delay in overthinking it.

Can I retreat? Even if you have a no duty to retreat law like Florida, if you can get your butt out, DO SO. This is not the place to think macho, if you can run, run ... NEVER, EVER, EVER PURSUE ANYONE ... you are not trying to catch a bad guy, you are not LEO, you are only trying to protect yourself and those around you

Tell the truth. Don't try to make up a favorable story when questioned by LEO, just state EXACTLY what happened, in the order it happened as accurately as you remember it. If you lie, your story will fall apart and come back to bite you. If you can ...delay the interview until you are more composed, ask to go to the hospital to be checked out that will give you some composure time. Even LEO are usually given 24 hours before debreif after a shoot.

Keep the number of a gun savy attorney on you and give them a call ... representation in the legal system is never a bad thing. Tell LEO you prefer to have representation and then shut up.

Of course, we all hope that we never have to worry about any of this and never have to use our weapon, but if you are so worried about the aftermath that it affects your judgement, then don't carry. In most cases of good shoots, the law does wind up on your side. Work in your state to get better "self defense" laws. The new Florida "castle doctrine" law has been working very well since it has been in effect, try to get your state to pass something similar if they don't have one.

Best of luck ... Be Safe!

 

[Boomboy007]

A or B?

A: Tell the truth. Don't try to make up a favorable story when questioned by LEO, just state EXACTLY what happened, in the order it happened as accurately as you remember it. If you lie, your story will fall apart and come back to bite you. If you can ...delay the interview until you are more composed, ask to go to the hospital to be checked out that will give you some composure time. Even LEO are usually given 24 hours before debreif after a shoot.

B: Keep the number of a gun savy attorney on you and give them a call ... representation in the legal system is never a bad thing. Tell LEO you prefer to have representation and then shut up.

Sorry to pick on one of my favorite posters, but I see you offering two different pieces of advice here, and only one of them is right.In the first part of your post (I labeled it "A") you talk about stating your story to the police just as it happened. You also advised delaying the interview if you can. I would counter with "Of COURSE you can. Just listen to what is being said when they read your Miranda statement." Incidentally, LEO are given the 24 hours before debrief so that the union provided attorney can consult with the officer before and be present during all aspects of the debrief/interview/interrogation.

I would advise everyone to stick with B!

 

[billwot]

Sorry to pick on one of my favorite posters, but I see you offering two different pieces of advice here, and only one of them is right.In the first part of your post (I labeled it "A") you talk about stating your story to the police just as it happened. You also advised delaying the interview if you can. I would counter with "Of COURSE you can. Just listen to what is being said when they read your Miranda statement." Incidentally, LEO are given the 24 hours before debrief so that the union provided attorney can consult with the officer before and be present during all aspects of the debrief/interview/interrogation.

I would advise everyone to stick with B!

My CCW instructor emphatically advised that if you are ever involved in a lethal force incident, politely decline to have any discussion with the LEOs until you are represented by council.

bill

 

[Ektarr]

My CCW instructor emphatically advised that if you are ever involved in a lethal force incident, politely decline to have any discussion with the LEOs until you are represented by council.

bill

Agreed. In these circumstances the Police are not your Friends. Somewhere in this maze of great information are the videos on why to never - Never! - NEVER!! - talk to the Police. They provide great and valuable information...find them, enjoy them, remember them!

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Edit: Let me help a Brother out...

Here's the results of the YouTube search inquiry for this series of talks. Have a great time!


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[BamaBoy]

Say nothing, sign nothing, agree to nothing, consent to nothing, admit to nothing—no matter how badly you want to tell your story, no matter how obviously justified you were in what you did. The authorities may tell you different, but nobody ever regretted having exercised his right to remain silent.

 

[2beararms]

Although admitedly not well stated, I stand by both parts of my post.

The "if you can" being the important part of that statement. That was not meant to say "if they will allow you" even though that obviously was how it was communicated, my appologies.

What I mean to say is "IF YOU CAN CONTROL YOURSELF". Now certainly everyone is going to jump up and say "of course you can control yourself, just shut up" but often that is not the case. Under stress many of us simply develop "diarreha of the mouth" and long before you can decide to shut up, you've already said too much. So I guess my advice is "if your going to babble" (like this post), then be smart and babble the truth.

 

[nogods]

Shut up and get a lawyer.

25 years ago a yuong man was arrested and convicted of two of three rapes he had been charged with commiting. He maintained his innocence for 22 years while serving a 25-year sentence in Attica State Penitentiary.

In the 21st year of his prison term a young mother was raped and murdered in the Buffalo area. The husband was the prime suspect soley because he refused to speak to the police and hired a lawyer.

However, a detective assigned severl cold cases involving rapes and murders noticed something similar in the most recent murder to those cold cases. His investigation eventually led to the arrest and conviction of the real murderer, who was also the rapist of women for which an innocent man had spent 22 years in prison.
Tthe real murder was not the husband.

Had that husband spoken to the police he might have said something they could have been used to convict him for the murder of his wife, and then 2 innocent men would be in prison for crimes commited by a nut-job still on the streets.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

Agreed. In these circumstances the Police are not your Friends. Somewhere in this maze of great information are the videos on why to never - Never! - NEVER!! - talk to the Police. They provide great and valuable information...find them, enjoy them, remember them!

------------------------------------------

Edit: Let me help a Brother out...

Here's the results of the YouTube search inquiry for this series of talks. Have a great time!


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Saw this video some time back- this should be mandatory viewing for gun owners.

 

[kengrubb]

I keep reading about law abiding citizens that use their guns to protect themselves or family and end up in jail.
...
What is the secret to staying out of jail?

It varies a lot from state to state.

Give serious consideration to JUDF or LFI-1.

 

[BamaBoy]

However, a detective assigned several cold cases involving rapes and murders noticed something similar in the most recent murder to those cold cases. His investigation eventually led to the arrest and conviction of the real murderer, who was also the rapist of women for which an innocent man had spent 22 years in prison.
The real murderer was not the husband.

So who was the real murderer? O. J. Simpson?

Watching this show called "The First 48," about police investigating crimes. The guys they bring in for questioning hang themselves every time. "We have a witness who saw you shoot three people last night."

"Bull****, man! I just shot the one dude!"

 

[kengrubb]

What justifies a shooting in the eyes of the prosecutors so that they will quickly come to that conclusion instead of taking their time and making the whole thing go thru the courts.

There are a thousand and one reasons which contribute. Briefly though you want to try and preserve your mantle of innocence to the extent possible. There are a whole lot of things one can do BEFORE a shooting ever even occurs. Avoidance, evasion, words and objects are things one can use before force is ever employed.

Even if a state has a "Make My Day" or "Stand Your Ground" law, if there is the opportunity to make egress or retreat to safety, then do so.

Carry a gun, then carry a cell phone. He who dials 9-1-1 first wins. Conventional wisdom holds that "bad guys don't call 9-1-1". In truth, even cops will tell you that bad guys call 9-1-1, but mostly to try and hurt "the competition". Doesn't matter if "no one saw you", the rule of evidence holds that there's always one more witness. If you see two witnesses, there's a third one you didn't see. However, if you see no witnesses, there's still one you didn't see. If you call 9-1-1, there's an increased chance you'll be viewed as the complainant rather than the respondent.

While I think talking to the nice officers in the immediate aftermath of a shooting can be less than ideal, a response of "I ain't sayin' nuttin' till I talk wit my loy-yah" isn't perhaps the best possible response.

Indicate that you're the victim, offer to assist in making a statement, point out exculpatory evidence and witnesses, indicate that you want to confer with legal counsel, then STFU.

"Officer, that man tried to kill me, and I will sign the complaint. There's his knife on the ground. That lady over there saw what happened. So did that clerk behind the counter. Officer, I'm sure you understand the seriousness of this situation. I will sign the complaint, make a statement, and cooperate with the investigation once I've had the chance to talk with a lawyer."