tcox4freedom
New member
Don't know about other States but in Michigan the following laws apply to your scenario...
Michigan Legislature - Section 780.961
DEADLY FORCE (EXCERPT)
Act 310 of 2006
780.961 Use of deadly force or force other than deadly force; establishing evidence that individual's actions not justified.
Sec. 1.
(1) An individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force in compliance with section 2 of the self-defense act and who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses that deadly force or force other than deadly force commits no crime in using that deadly force or force other than deadly force.
THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931
750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; exception; violation; penalty; "process server" defined.
Sec. 552.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not do any of the following:
(a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden to do so by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.
(b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.
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(3) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.
So a plain reading of both of those laws would mean a person who is trespassing is committing a crime (a misdemeanor) so the protection of Section 1 of 780.961 (Use of deadly force or force other than deadly force) would not apply. My understand of that in plain language would mean that a person who is trespassing is committing a crime and therefor does not have the protection of "Stand your ground"...
But then... I am not an attorney ....
Thanks Bikenut.
I made "red" the point I want to make.
As a business owner who does business open to the public, I still retain my right to private property. Though, you are invited in my business, you are still required to do business in accordance to the rules governing my business. Some of these rules are laid out in municipal or legal code. Others are related to management practices for successful operation & prosperity to my particular business.
This means if you are "invited" to do business with me but, I find your behavior disruptive to my ability to do business; or harmful (in "ANY" way) to my rights to legally conduct business, I can ask you to leave at anytime. If you refuse, you are then guilty of trespass. What I cannot do as a business owner is discriminate on the basis of race.
Look at it this way-
We have a right to protest any business. The left does this constantly to Christian owned businesses that stand up for their Faith. But, even the left is restricted from trespassing on a business owners private property in such a way as to prevent the rest of the public from doing business.
(IE; you can set up a picket line adjacent to a property owned by a particular business. But, you cannot physically prevent people from crossing it in order to do business.)
In the same way, you can come in my business carrying a gun or a homosexual couple may want to come in my "Christian" owned business and engage in some PDA. But, if either of those things disrupt my business and cost me customers, I can ask you to leave.
I am a HUGE proponent of OC! (All you need to do is research previous posts I've made.) But, if you disrupt my business by acting like an idiot or, you run off paying customers, I have the right to ask you to leave.
The BEST thing we can do as firearms CC/OC advocates is respect a private property or business owners right to manage their property as they see fit and try to educate people & business owners whenever we can. But, trying to place our right to carry over their right to manage their business is a HUGE mistake that will not be met openly in the business community. When education doesn't work, we take our business elsewhere and let our money talk.
The BIG issue I have with some of the OC stuff I've seen lately is a few OC'ers not really caring about the rights of others. This is something that the left does and it makes me very suspect of some peoples motives.
I personally believe they're AG infiltrators in the OC/CC movement that are masquerading as pro gun. Their goal is NOT to educate and promote change in a "positive" way. Their goal is to create more fear & division. So, the pathway to more freedom is littered with more obstacles. Unfortunately, there are idiots out there as well.
I am all for protests and making a statement in order to help open a constructive dialog. But, making a statement or going out in public just to intimidate is no better than what the left does. I for one, want the general law abiding public to see gun owners, OC'ers and CC'ers as sane, law abiding citizens. I also want to help those fence sitters see the AG left as irrational & crazy hoplophobes that they are as well.
So, what's the better way of doing this--
Honoring a business owners right to conduct business in the way they see fit and educating them every chance we get?
or-
Should we just be all up in their face, stomping on their rights to exercise our own?
or-
Should we just be all up in their face, stomping on their rights to exercise our own?
Personally, I think there is a time & place for both. But, for the most part, I believe the "former" will garner more support for the cause than the "latter".
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