Shipping a handgun to myself in another state

[DickB]

I'm licensed in my home state of Florida and have an unlimited Class A non resident license in my previously home state of Mass. Can I ship a handgun in care of myself to the home of a friend in Mass and then from their back to myself here in Florida at the end of my visit.

It seems like a lot of work but I'm just concerned it'll be stolen or my luggage "lost" if I fly with it in checked baggage. That said I've never had a baggage problem with Jet Blue and the flights are direct both ways.


Thanks

****

 

[roguejesse]

I have had a problem with Jet Blue. After TSA ransacked my luggage, they didn't close the zippers. Resulting in a loss of some items that fell out at some point during the rough and tumble through the baggage handling system.

I am curious if it is legally possible to ship a firearm to yourself. If not the whole firearm; how about the frame in one package and the slide in another.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, it is legal. It will have to go by overnight so it will be about $70 to $80 each way.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[deadeye]

shipping handgun

As a FFL dealer in Ks. it is against the law to send any firearm even to yourself without using a FFL. If it is a pistol it must go 1 or 2 day air via UPS, Fedex, DHS. You can not use the mail sevice. I know your reservations but I have flown several times with no problem. Be sure to read Jet Blue regs on weapons carrying. Some airlines will not let you carry the pistol and mag in the same bag. Ammo must be in a seperate bag. If your weapon is being carried in the black suitcase it came in, it probably just has a place for 1 lock. I drilled another hole on the other side so that it would be double locked as the manufacturers case can be gotten into with just 1 lock. Make sure you declare a weapon at check-in and don't forget your keys to the locks as they will have you open it and put a piece of paper in it with your sig. This is a much better way than trying to "smuggle" the weapon to yourself. Do as you please but remember they can and will confiscate the weapon if found to be shipped illegally. Best of luck. Brian

 

[NavyLCDR]

My vote would be for checked baggage. Small locked gun case locked with regular locks that only you have keys/combo to, inside a larger piece of luggage with a TSA lock on it.

Here is JetBlue requirements. The suggest to give your key or combination to the security officer to open your gun case with is a violation of Federal law, though. NEVER give the key or combo to any person, no matter what uniform they are wearing.

http://help.jetblue.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/webisapi.dll?New,Kb=askBlue,case=obj(2236)#s10

Firearms/Shooting Equipment and Ammunition

Firearms are not permitted on international flights to or from the U.S.

There is no additional charge for shooting equipment. However, one piece of shooting equipment will count as one of your checked bags.

You must be 18 years of age to check a firearm.

Firearms, shooting equipment and related items will be accepted only as checked baggage subject to the following specific conditions:

All firearms must be unloaded and must be packed in either a crush-proof container specifically designed for the firearm, or in a hard-sided container. The container must be lockable and only the individual checking the baggage should retain the key or combination. Any container which cannot be locked is not acceptable. TSA recommends that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain present during screening to take the key back after the container is cleared.

Ammunition for the firearm cannot be placed in the same container as the firearm. Ammunition must be housed in a separate container that is completely separate and distinct from the firearms locked box. The ammunition must be packaged in a fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal box specifically designed for carrying small amounts of ammunition. Ammunition is limited to 10 pounds per customer.

Pistol cases may be available for purchase by cash, check or credit card at any JetBlue ticket counter for a nonrefundable fee of $35. Quantities are limited and may not be available at all ticket counters.

One item of shooting equipment is considered:

One rifle case containing no more than two rifles with or without scopes, one shooting net, noise suppressors, and a small rifle tool set, or one shotgun case containing no more than two shotguns, or one pistol case containing no more than four pistols, or one bow and quiver of arrows and maintenance kit enclosed in a case or container of sufficient strength to protect the bow and quiver with arrows from accidental damage.

Please note: BB guns and air guns are also considered as shooting equipment and will be treated as such.

 

[ImpeachObama]

I flew Jet Blue from JFK NYC to Nevada with no problems. I took three hand guns in a case from Sea Horse. You can buy directly from them at this website. They shipped the case the same day. I plan on getting another one for just one or two handguns.

Link Removed

I used the SX-540 Quick Draw (hold 4 h-guns) and used the locks it came with, then added two padlocks with the same key (two keys total for four locks). I got the shoulder strap also. Using a short bicycle type chain lock, I looped it around the handle of the case and looped it around the frame at the bottom of my suitcase. You'll have to unzip the upholstery liner somewhat. That way the firearm case wasn't leaving the luggage regardless. Your adding weight here, so that sucks. I think my case with handguns was 15-16 lbs. I shipped a bunch of clothes/things to myself UPS for my trip as I was gone awhile. My main luggage empty is 16 lbs. Ooof!

At the counter, you tell the agent that you have firearm(s) to declare. They will get a tag and fill it out. They will call TSA who might call some other police authorities depending on where you are at. In NYC, the TSA agent called for Port Authority Police. They were real nice and one of them asked questions about my modified Glock. You keep in possession at all times the keys. The magazines can be in the case, just not in the handgun is best. Port Authority just wanted to check that there was no ammo in the same case and that the firearms were UN-loaded. The Jet Blue agent puts their tag inside your case to prove it was inspected. The P.D. might ask for your Pistol permit, maybe ask for your drivers license and write down your name and such. No worries.

My return flight from Las Vegas was kind of weird. No one was available, so the agent asked me to show him they were empty. I think I flew really late at night. He took the bag himself somewhere behind the wall and came back a few minutes later saying things were okay. When I got back to NY, I was relieved everything was good and untouched. It's a little un-nerving if you haven't experienced it.

 

[rogn]

Dead eye, you are wrong in your blanket statement about shipping to yourself. You can in fact ship long guns to yourself and you may do so using the US Postal Service. I have done so when going hunting in diferent areas and not trusting the airlines and their lack of concern and insurance. You must declare the firearm, and pack it accordingly. Hand guns and ammo are a different matter.

 

[deadeye]

shipping weapons to yourself

My blanket statement covers handguns as the author states in his original blog. Yes you are correct about the shipments of long guns and the use of the post office. Hunting is another key word. Have shipped many a weapon both ways, but the ATF here is very adamant when it comes to handguns and how they are to be shipped. I personally can not get around it and don't want to as it's not worth my license as a gunsmith and firearms dealer. Best regards Brian

 

[jedma]

i live in mass also. i was told in gun course i took you can only have gun shipped to a lisenced dealer. than pick up from him long as you r legal to carry. not all guns that r legal in other startes are legal in mass. even some clips for guns. rifles no problem but guns are a whole nother thing in this crazzy COMMIE STATE.

 

[NavyLCDR]

i live in mass also. i was told in gun course i took you can only have gun shipped to a lisenced dealer. than pick up from him long as you r legal to carry. not all guns that r legal in other startes are legal in mass. even some clips for guns. rifles no problem but guns are a whole nother thing in this crazzy COMMIE STATE.

If we are talking about a handgun, one must be careful to ship the gun only to an FFL in a state they can prove residence in to the satisfaction of the FFL. If our friend in Florida has a Florida driver's license and he ships his handgun to an FFL in MA, that FFL will not be able to transfer the gun to him.

It is perfectly legal to ship a gun to yourself in another state, care of another person.

 

[Felix]

Thanks for your later example as well as the ATF Q&A, NavyLT. I thought Deadeye Brian had it wrong about mailing a handgun to yourself but wasn't absolutely sure since he's a gunsmith and FFL holder. I don't know why the ATF in his state of Kansas would be any different than any other state since we're talking federal regulations here.

In a few cases I've had to send handguns back to the manufacturer for rework. They merely forwarded a shipping label and I sent via UPS with no need to declare the contents. No FFL requirements at all. And the manufacturers returned the handguns directly to my house with no FFL involvement whatsoever. Except for the one time when the frame was scrapped and I got one back with a new serial number. Then we had to go through the FFL transfer routine.

Maybe there's a difference though between a gunsmith and a gun manufacturer although the lines would be pretty blurry when talking custom makers.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Thanks for your later example as well as the ATF Q&A, NavyLT. I thought Deadeye Brian had it wrong about mailing a handgun to yourself but wasn't absolutely sure since he's a gunsmith and FFL holder. I don't know why the ATF in his state of Kansas would be any different than any other state since we're talking federal regulations here.

Just so we make sure we are on the same page:

1. It is lawful for a person to ship a handgun to himself in another state via UPS or FEDEX. Now, one of those company's policies won't allow it, even though the law does, I just can't remember which. Their company policy also requires the handgun to go overnight.

2. It is lawful for a person to mail via USPS or ship via UPS or FEDEX a rifle to themselves in another state. Again company policies apply, but the overnight company policy only applies to handguns.

In a few cases I've had to send handguns back to the manufacturer for rework. They merely forwarded a shipping label and I sent via UPS with no need to declare the contents. No FFL requirements at all. And the manufacturers returned the handguns directly to my house with no FFL involvement whatsoever. Except for the one time when the frame was scrapped and I got one back with a new serial number. Then we had to go through the FFL transfer routine.

The bold part above did NOT require an FFL transfer. Page 3 of:
Link Removed

Exceptions to the ATF Form 4473 Requirement:
You are not required to obtain a Form 4473 for the following sales and other transfers:

4. Transfer of a replacement firearm of the same kind and type to the person from whom a firearm was received.

This exception is codified in 27 CFR 478.124:

§ 478.124 Firearms transaction record.
(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
or licensed dealer shall not sell or
otherwise dispose, temporarily or permanently,
of any firearm to any person, other
than another licensee, unless the licensee
records the transaction on a firearms
transaction record, Form 4473: Provided,
That a firearms transaction record, Form
4473, shall not be required to record the
disposition made of a firearm delivered to
a licensee for the sole purpose of repair or
customizing when such firearm or a replacement
firearm is returned to the person
from whom received.

Maybe there's a difference though between a gunsmith and a gun manufacturer although the lines would be pretty blurry when talking custom makers.

Nope. Notice the first line of 27 CFR 478.11... it applies to all types of FFLs except for the collector (C&R license).

Many times FFLs will be overly cautious about what they think the laws are because they are afraid of being questioned about something during an audit of their records.

 

[Felix]

Wow, thanks again, NavyLT. Your online research skills are legendary around here and much appreciated.

So even the semi-custom 1911 manufacturer I referenced had it wrong! An unneeded FFL transfer fee incurred. I never questioned the process from someone who certainly should have known the regs. It seemed believable (to me at least) that a new serial number would require a transfer via an FFL holder in my state. I'll be smarter if there's ever a next time.

 

[deadeye]

weapons transfer

Navy LT, you are just about 99.9% correct when it comes to FFL holders/Gunsmiths. When one is randomly picked for a audit we must ensure every I is dotted and evert T crossed so we do take the regs. to the extremme. Just about everything I do involves the handling of recordable parts or weapons. Fedex is the only company my wholesalers ship to me with and is the only Co. I ship with. All searilized parts must be logged in our bound books and disposistions noted: ie, sent to manf., sent to another FFL. When it comes to my gunsmithing work if I am not going to be able to return their weapon back to them in a resonable amount of time my ATF inspector advises me to record the firearm in my bound book. There is no need for a 4473 if the " original " owner comes to retreive their weapon. When shipping a handgun as a business I must use a FFL. My business knowledge versus the private sector as you have so diligently proved is lacking on my part. I just wanted to make sure nothing "bad" occured using the "business approach" when I should have been quoting the public sector regs. Thanks for broadening my narrow vision and do apologize if I created to much confusion. Brian:

 

[NavyLCDR]

Being a maintenance officer in the Navy, I am also subject to audits and inspections regarding aircraft maintenance records. So, believe me, I know all those rules: if it isn't documented, it didn't happen, etc. I think a major key to success, at least as far as aviation maintenance inspections go, is to have a good working relationship with the inspectors. Calling them in between inspections for advice/clarification. Asking about potential pitfalls/problem areas to look for, etc.

That way everybody's knowledge is expanded, hopefully there won't be any "oh crap" moments during the audits, and the inspectors see that you have a desire to comply.

Now.... the ATF may be a totally different animal, but that's the way it works with the aviation maintenance inspectors anyway.

 

[Ozarkfirearms]

I am also an FFL

Zander's, davidsons, green supply, sports south, and others ship UPS. Handguns must go Next Day Air. Please be sure you are correct when answering questions. This show up on google! It is PERFECTLY legal to ship a gun to yourself in another state to use for sporting or hunting. UNLESS that firearm is restricted IN THE RECEIVING STATE! I gave this exact information to an FFL in the keys and they were completely unaware you can legally do this. It's your gun, you've already passed the background check. Why could you not ship it to yourself. You could bring it with you but some states you travel through (if driving) could have laws against it. Ship them, it's the easiest way I think. I ship mine when I travel. (And no owning an FFL gives me no extra rights or privileges for my firearms I do a 4473 like everyone else) Just be sure to CHECK THE LAWS IN THE RECIEVING STATE FIRST!

Navy LT, you are just about 99.9% correct when it comes to FFL holders/Gunsmiths. When one is randomly picked for a audit we must ensure every I is dotted and evert T crossed so we do take the regs. to the extremme. Just about everything I do involves the handling of recordable parts or weapons. Fedex is the only company my wholesalers ship to me with and is the only Co. I ship with. All searilized parts must be logged in our bound books and disposistions noted: ie, sent to manf., sent to another FFL. When it comes to my gunsmithing work if I am not going to be able to return their weapon back to them in a resonable amount of time my ATF inspector advises me to record the firearm in my bound book. There is no need for a 4473 if the " original " owner comes to retreive their weapon. When shipping a handgun as a business I must use a FFL. My business knowledge versus the private sector as you have so diligently proved is lacking on my part. I just wanted to make sure nothing "bad" occured using the "business approach" when I should have been quoting the public sector regs. Thanks for broadening my narrow vision and do apologize if I created to much confusion. Brian:

 

[jedma]

I'm licensed in my home state of Florida and have an unlimited Class A non resident license in my previously home state of Mass. Can I ship a handgun in care of myself to the home of a friend in Mass and then from their back to myself here in Florida at the end of my visit.

It seems like a lot of work but I'm just concerned it'll be stolen or my luggage "lost" if I fly with it in checked baggage. That said I've never had a baggage problem with Jet Blue and the flights are direct both ways.


Thanks

****

NO I live in ma . you have to ship your gun to a gun dealer than pick up form him.. my understanding.. even if I get one in a neiboring state like Maine. how ever if I was driving to maine or anther state I would just take in car with me.. there are some states be no problem if got pulled over others could be introuble, but I take the chance drive carefull. if flying you can take gun on plane packed away in luggage area un loaded off course with trigger lock but check with airline they have diff rules.. a friend my does it a lot

 

[Ozarkfirearms]

False

NO I live in ma . you have to ship your gun to a gun dealer than pick up form him.. my understanding.. even if I get one in a neiboring state like Maine. how ever if I was driving to maine or anther state I would just take in car with me.. there are some states be no problem if got pulled over others could be introuble, but I take the chance drive carefull. if flying you can take gun on plane packed away in luggage area un loaded off course with trigger lock but check with airline they have diff rules.. a friend my does it a lot

FALSE! You CAN ship a gun from your home state to yourself in another state, and back! As long as the state you are sending it to allows that particular firearm! It's in black and white on the ATF website. Sheesh. Research before you answer people! Please follow this link to the ATF website and READ. DO NOT ASSUME.

It's Number 6 of the top 10 FAQ at The ATF LOL and still people get it wrong!
https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

 

[SR9]

I was in Industrial Purchasing in my working life and when we had things shipped "UPS Next Day Air" they were not inspected in shipping. Not even if coming in from overseas.

 

[DOGFISH350]

DickB, did you ever get a response to this question?