Road rage incident leads to deaths of 2 CPL holders....


E

ezkl2230

Guest
This is one of the few documented cases in which a CPL holder has been involved in a crime here in Michigan. No one knows what happened while they were driving, but both men got out of their vehicles, got into an argument, and then shot each other dead. Both were apparently MI CPL holders. 43 and 56 years old.

Of course, this single event is exactly what the gun grabbers were waiting for to justify their argument that CPL holders are just waiting for the chance to cook off shots at someone. We'll conveniently ignore the fact that according to MI crime statistics (which I have been monitoring for years), such events involving CPL holders are so rare as to be statistically non-existent.

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damn...over some dumb road rage incident?

This is a very unfortunate thing...very sad for thier families...

This is actually the first news-confirmed incident involving legal CCW's that I've personally read about.

It almost certainly will be much-used fodder for the anti-gunners.
 
I 911 anyone that exhibits road rage, tailgates, drives erratically, crosses over the fog line multiple times, drives distracted, keeps hitting the rumble strips or the rocks on the edge, flips me the bird, in short mess up and you will get to talk to the police...

I ride bike a lot and your bad driving habit's are not going to put me or someone else in the hospital!!

and yes the police take the road rage calls very seriously...:secret:
 
The report is inadequate to document that both men were equally involved in a "road rage" incident. I can certainly envision a scenario where one guy tries to evade a road rager, thinks he has, pulls over to call police or just to calm down or whatever, and road rager shows up with guns a'blazing. In that case, Guy 1 would be doing nothing more nefarious than defending himself, and his involvement in the incident should be reported as such.

At this point, with the report saying only, "...apparently in a case of road rage..." there's not enough to go on for anyone to conclude anything about both mens' involvement. Any coverage in that local area that subscribes to such inadequate conclusion-making, should be contacted by residents in huge numbers and told to get their reporting limited only to what is known, and refuse to report "apparent" conclusions at all.

Blues
 
Sheldon said:
I 911 anyone that exhibits road rage, tailgates, drives erratically, crosses over the fog line multiple times, drives distracted, keeps hitting the rumble strips or the rocks on the edge, flips me the bird, in short mess up and you will get to talk to the police...

I ride bike a lot and your bad driving habit's are not going to put me or someone else in the hospital!!

and yes the police take the road rage calls very seriously...:secret:
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You call 911 if someone FLIPS YOU OFF???
 
Sheldon said:
I 911 anyone that exhibits road rage, tailgates, drives erratically, crosses over the fog line multiple times, drives distracted, keeps hitting the rumble strips or the rocks on the edge, flips me the bird, in short mess up and you will get to talk to the police...
Click to expand...

That's a little bit ridiculous dude. If you actually think that the police follow up on all of those calls, you're out of your damn mind. Yes, in the case of someone weaving across the road they might try to intercept the driver to test for impairment. But talking on the cellphone, flipping you off, tailgating you...people drive like ********, they always have, they always will. Live with it. The police aren't going to waste their time trying to intercept a driver on a cellphone when the only evidence they have is your statement, and even then, it's just a traffic ticket.

WA just recently "legalized" weed. It's still illegal for anyone under 21 to posses any amount and for people over 21 to posses more than like 4 ounces. I contacted somebody at work the other night who literally had a pound of weed just sitting on their passenger seat. Contacted police, and guess what? They weren't interested in responding since it's just a civil infraction. Dude drove off weed in hand (or on seat rather).
 
K7lvo said:
You call 911 if someone FLIPS YOU OFF???
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Yes I do, it is road rage pure plane and simple and often will lead to other forms of agression... so be safe rather than sorry.

jcreek said:
That's a little bit ridiculous dude. If you actually think that the police follow up on all of those calls, you're out of your damn mind. Yes, in the case of someone weaving across the road they might try to intercept the driver to test for impairment. But talking on the cellphone, flipping you off, tailgating you...people drive like ********, they always have, they always will. Live with it. The police aren't going to waste their time trying to intercept a driver on a cellphone when the only evidence they have is your statement, and even then, it's just a traffic ticket.

WA just recently "legalized" weed. It's still illegal for anyone under 21 to posses any amount and for people over 21 to posses more than like 4 ounces. I contacted somebody at work the other night who literally had a pound of weed just sitting on their passenger seat. Contacted police, and guess what? They weren't interested in responding since it's just a civil infraction. Dude drove off weed in hand (or on seat rather).
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Whose the one not on the mental straight road here??

The one that accuses people of "being out of their damn mind" future road rage... or the one that calls 911 and then watches the police pull them over from a safe distace...

I have watched mutiple times and the police do tend to take road rage very seriously, at least they do her here in MI, and in MO, IN, FL, TX, and AZ all states I have 911 some rude crude, (I would say dude but guys do not have exclusive rights to road rage) elitist fool...

N FYI police love to hand out a easy and expensive ticket, yes they do stop and question, cell phone or DUI both look the same if you are behind them...

So what is your response to road rage, escalate or attempt to escape which in many and this one simply does not work, or do you draw down on them Marshall Dillon...
 
I believe that an armed society is a polite society. Guess not everyone feels the same!:dirol:
 
K7lvo said:
You call 911 if someone FLIPS YOU OFF???

Sheldon said:
Yes I do, it is road rage pure plane and simple and often will lead to other forms of agression... so be safe rather than sorry.
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Umm.....bullcrap.

I have all the right in the world to let you know what I think of you, whether I do it politely (which I really don't how one might do if they felt strongly enough about you to flip you off) or profanely. It's called "freedom of expression," not "...road rage pure plane [sic] and simple." And I'll tell ya what, if you're following me while you're on the phone with 911 telling them my every move, and still behind me when I pull into my driveway, I'll flip you off again as I'm walking behind your car to get your tag number so I can identify the stalker who has followed me for the last several miles for doing or saying nothing illegal. I'll sue your dumb ass into freakin' oblivion! And win! This is pure *plain* and simple sophistry! Who the Hell are you to deem what looks to be a fairly well-deserved profanity hurled your way a crime worthy of involving cops in? And guess what cupcake? If you followed my wife home for anything so trivial as her flipping you off, I sure as heck wouldn't wait for the cops to get there before treating you as I would treat anyone who stalked my wife.

If you get flipped off, it's probably because you were paying too close of attention to the car in front of you that you're already on the phone with cops about for some other infraction of your own "rules for road ragers," and you cut the flip-off driver off due to your own distracted driving.

Good grief. If your sensibilities are so fragile as to have to call the cops for being flipped off, I suggest you get off the road, hide in your closet, curl up in the fetal position and cry it off before getting back behind the wheel!

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
Umm.....bullcrap.

I have all the right in the world to let you know what I think of you, whether I do it politely (which I really don't how one might do if they felt strongly enough about you to flip you off) or profanely. It's called "freedom of expression," not "...road rage pure plane [sic] and simple." And I'll tell ya what, if you're following me while you're on the phone with 911 telling them my every move, and still behind me when I pull into my driveway, I'll flip you off again as I'm walking behind your car to get your tag number so I can identify the stalker who has followed me for the last several miles for doing or saying nothing illegal. I'll sue your dumb ass into freakin' oblivion! And win! This is pure *plain* and simple sophistry! Who the Hell are you to deem what looks to be a fairly well-deserved profanity hurled your way a crime worthy of involving cops in? And guess what cupcake? If you followed my wife home for anything so trivial as her flipping you off, I sure as heck wouldn't wait for the cops to get there before treating you as I would treat anyone who stalked my wife.

If you get flipped off, it's probably because you were paying too close of attention to the car in front of you that you're already on the phone with cops about for some other infraction of your own "rules for road ragers," and you cut the flip-off driver off due to your own distracted driving.

Good grief. If your sensibilities are so fragile as to have to call the cops for being flipped off, I suggest you get off the road, hide in your closet, curl up in the fetal position and cry it off before getting back behind the wheel!

Blues
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Once behind the wheel of a car the rules are different, think not, go flip off a cop and see what happens next....
 
Sheldon said:
Once behind the wheel of a car the rules are different, think not, go flip off a cop and see what happens next....
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Are you a cop there hot-rod? Of course you're not, because if you were, instead of calling 911 for absolutely nothing, you'd just flip on your blue lights and handle whatever situation you think called for your intervention in the first place (which I can only imagine would be the thinnest of justifications if you were actually a cop that anyone anywhere in the entire world has ever heard of).

I'd love for you to show where in the Constitution or a SCOTUS decision it says that the rules change once behind the wheel of a car anyway. I have my freedom of expression anywhere, as long as it's not so offensive as to be thought by a "reasonable person" to be "fighting words" or to be intentionally inciting violence or other illegalities. If the proverbial "reasonable person" can stand to walk away from being flipped off, you can too. That is one of the more ridiculous arguments I've ever seen on this forum. Love to see you try to document the "new rules" once you start driving in a car though.

Besides that, if a cop, oh, I don't know, let's say he cuts me off doin' 70 down the interstate, then slams on his brakes repeatedly trying to get me to tailgate and/or hit him so he can collect some dough from the whiplash he caused, and then after I pull off the freeway to get away from him and I see him pull up next to me at the next traffic light and he's laughing at having made me take another route, well, I may well flip him the bird. But guess what genius? I'm going to have every second after he cut me off on tape, including him laughing, and if tries to make something "happen next" I'm going to have that recorded for posterity too.

Same thing's going to happen as soon as I see you following me, especially if I see you following me all the way to my destination, whether that's my home or JC Penny to pick up some cheap Big & Tall man's long-sleeved shirts. Smile buddy, you're on Candid Camera!

The fact is, the way you yourself described what you do for nothing more than being flipped off, you are the one breaking the law. If you describe such a trivial discourtesy to the 911 operator as a "road rage" incident, that, my way-too-easily-offended-friend, is called a "false report." The only road rage going on if I just drive by while flipping you the bird and do nothing else out of the ordinary, is you following me. At that point, you become the aggressor, the stalker, the rage-filled-maniac, whatever.

You really haven't thought this through at all, have you Sheldon?

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
Are you a cop there hot-rod? Of course you're not, because if you were, instead of calling 911 for absolutely nothing, you'd just flip on your blue lights and handle whatever situation you think called for your intervention in the first place (which I can only imagine would be the thinnest of justifications if you were actually a cop that anyone anywhere in the entire world has ever heard of).

I'd love for you to show where in the Constitution or a SCOTUS decision it says that the rules change once behind the wheel of a car anyway. I have my freedom of expression anywhere, as long as it's not so offensive as to be thought by a "reasonable person" to be "fighting words" or to be intentionally inciting violence or other illegalities. If the proverbial "reasonable person" can stand to walk away from being flipped off, you can too. That is one of the more ridiculous arguments I've ever seen on this forum. Love to see you try to document the "new rules" once you start driving in a car though.

Besides that, if a cop, oh, I don't know, let's say he cuts me off doin' 70 down the interstate, then slams on his brakes repeatedly trying to get me to tailgate and/or hit him so he can collect some dough from the whiplash he caused, and then after I pull off the freeway to get away from him and I see him pull up next to me at the next traffic light and he's laughing at having made me take another route, well, I may well flip him the bird. But guess what genius? I'm going to have every second after he cut me off on tape, including him laughing, and if tries to make something "happen next" I'm going to have that recorded for posterity too.

Same thing's going to happen as soon as I see you following me, especially if I see you following me all the way to my destination, whether that's my home or JC Penny to pick up some cheap Big & Tall man's long-sleeved shirts. Smile buddy, you're on Candid Camera!

The fact is, the way you yourself described what you do for nothing more than being flipped off, you are the one breaking the law. If you describe such a trivial discourtesy to the 911 operator as a "road rage" incident, that, my way-too-easily-offended-friend, is called a "false report." The only road rage going on if I just drive by while flipping you the bird and do nothing else out of the ordinary, is you following me. At that point, you become the aggressor, the stalker, the rage-filled-maniac, whatever.

You really haven't thought this through at all, have you Sheldon?

Blues
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Flipping one off is defined by code as road rage, look it up and I reiterate think not go for a drive and flip off a cop and see what happens next, or is it you like keeping you CPL...
Spent 37 years as a Fire Marshall, worked with many police agencies, City, State, County, Once a complaint has been filed, notification has been given, there is a duty for them to act... So play your part but flip off the wrong person and then try and explain it to the police once pulled over.
Now granted it may be a knock at your door once you get home, but when I 911 you, it is with a plate No, description of the vehicle and driver, number of occupants, road and direction of travel.
Yes I have gotten calls from the officer who is going out on the call before too, all you have to do is request a call lback... so be safe, beware, and be polite.
 
Sheldon said:
Flipping one off is defined by code as road rage, look it up....
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Umm...you made the assertion, so you "look it up" and back up that what you say is indeed true and accurate. If you've got a local statute that says such a ridiculous thing, then you better not leave the jurisdiction that statute covers, because I'll guaran-damn-tee ya that that crap won't fly down here in Dixie.

Otherwise, as to the rest of your post, blah blah.

Blues
 
Good for Dixie but in GA when I 911 a road rager on the I-40 the state boys had him in less than 5 minutes, so at least some of you southern boys take road rage seriously...
 
Here's the 911 call regarding the "Michigan Road Rage" Incident. Seems one of the dead men was defending his family. Link Removed
 
Sheldon said:
Good for Dixie but in GA when I 911 a road rager on the I-40 the state boys had him in less than 5 minutes, so at least some of you southern boys take road rage seriously...
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That's quite a trick there, Sheldon, because I-40 is at least an hour and a half North of the northern-most GA state line. Guess it must have been Nashville or Memphis, or maybe Knoxville, heck, maybe you were in Little Rock, AR, but it's for damn sure you weren't in GA if you were on I-40 calling 911 on someone who flipped you off. So what did you do to get someone in TN to flip you off, there Sheldon, tell 'em "Roll Tide" or somethin'?

Still waiting for that code section that says flippin' someone off is a criminal act that cops will roll on when no other "offense" has been reported. Unless someone flipped you off and then you made up some story about how they're road ragin' on ya? Nah...No one who tells stories about driving on I-40 in the fine state of Georgia would make up a story about a road rager, now would they?

Blues
 
dcselby1 said:
Here's the 911 call regarding the "Michigan Road Rage" Incident. Seems one of the dead men was defending his family. Link Removed
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Best reason I can think of to take the lesser road, 911, keep moving, stay in the car, but then 20/20 hindsight is always perfect from the bleachers...



BluesStringer said:
That's quite a trick there, Sheldon, because I-40 is at least an hour and a half North of the northern-most GA state line. Guess it must have been Nashville or Memphis, or maybe Knoxville, heck, maybe you were in Little Rock, AR, but it's for damn sure you weren't in GA if you were on I-40 calling 911 on someone who flipped you off. So what did you do to get someone in TN to flip you off, there Sheldon, tell 'em "Roll Tide" or somethin'?

Still waiting for that code section that says flippin' someone off is a criminal act that cops will roll on when no other "offense" has been reported. Unless someone flipped you off and then you made up some story about how they're road ragin' on ya? Nah...No one who tells stories about driving on I-40 in the fine state of Georgia would make up a story about a road rager, now would they?

Blues
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It was 2007 I was taking my daughter from Fort Jackson SC to Fort Rucker AL for AIT and it was in GA so more likely it was the 20, I didn't look at the map and simply relied on memory n use the 44-40 as my primary east west when I head out to my mining claim in AZ and had a senior moment.

Yes they do respond, reported the story when it happened in the Defensive carry forum. Bottom line is GA Takes their road rage very seriously I slowed down so I could watch what happened next as I had 911 on the car phone, and I greatly enjoyed watching in my rear view as the flashers come on when the guy in the Grey Honda did his BS in front of the GA state police.
I still get a giggle from the incident... Oh yeah I could have done other stuff that would have endangered my family, pulled the HK, ran him off the road but this was way more fun and entertaining...


In MI it is defined as "Agressive Driving" so go knock yourself out... Link Removed
 
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