I was recently pulled over in charlotte, nc.. i failed to mention i had my ccw permit but my gun was in plain view on the dash. Even though i was in the wrong of not telling the LEO i had my carry permit... He hassled me over it and told me he could arrest me even though the gun was not concealed.. is this true? I was pulled over because the officer thought i spun my tires because the noise my blow off valve makes through the exhaust kinda sounds like squealing tires at low rpms... other than im 22 and drive a diesel truck that is tuned and blows a bit of black smoke when i pull away from a light.. the officer was behind me and immediately pulled me over and tried to get me for "reckless driving." Which i was not. He then continued to open my door and start looking through my door after checking my license and learning of my concealed carry permit... Did he have a right to open my door and look through my truck without reasonable cause? Or did all my rights go out the window when i didnt tell him i had my carry permit and a gun on the dash. He took the gun and it all checked out as it should have, then proceeded to open my back door and lay it under a couple jackets i had back there. From what i understand he is supposed to put it on the tailgate and then once he pulls away i am supposed to go get it. He hassled me for over 45 mins asking multiple questions to me and the passenger, also asking for his ID, but the officer never asked for my registration. Im just trying to figure out if what the leo all did was right or wrong for future reference. I wont ever fail to mention i have my carry permit ever again after this incident thats for sure.
Right or Wrong?
- Thread starter jmw1191
- Start date
tricolordad
Banned
Well, North Carolina is a must inform state, but I'm not sure how that applies to open carry. If OC in a vehicle isn't legal without a CCL, then it probably counts as carrying concealed. But, don't take my word for it. Ask a lawyer. Any search is legal if they have probably cause. Not informing when you are required to by law is going to give him PC.
If this isn't made up, you're damn lucky you're not locked up right now.
If this isn't made up, you're damn lucky you're not locked up right now.
tricolordad
Banned
And again, contact a lawyer.
Sh00tn Butt
New member
you can get good info here and 4,000 opinions .. LoL
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blueribbonman
New member
you need to remember that the officer doesn't know you, so when he spots a weapon & you don't notify him that you have a ccp, concider yourself lucky he didn't draw his weapon on you & put you & your friend in cuffs until he got it all sorted out. & as far as his search he was probably right in what he did. I personally would drop it & let it be a learning lesson. & why was your weapon on the dash in the first place & not secured in a holster ? what would happen if you were in an accident & then it"s bouncing around & you don't have control of it.
ToddR
New member
Open carry in a vehicle is legal in NC and on the dash is about the only place you can do it if your passenger seat is occupied.
Not sure how the "must inform" law applies if you're not concealed, good question.
Search without probable cause or consent isn't legal.
Interesting encounter to say the least.
Not sure how the "must inform" law applies if you're not concealed, good question.
Search without probable cause or consent isn't legal.
Interesting encounter to say the least.
tricolordad
Banned
+1. When I drive, I take mine out of the holster on my belt and stick it into a blackhawk holster I have stuck between the seats or under the fold down middle seat so it doesn't move around on me. Last thing I need to worry about is some kid picking up my loaded gun if I get into an accident. Like a saw, cordless drill or any other tool, you need to keep your gun in a safe place so that you aren't endangering anybody else. Lots of lessons to be learned here.
Rick Seccondro
New member
Lesson learned...
Son... regardless what the LEO did, you are lucky not to have gotten locked up. You were fortunate your firearm was in plain sight. as for your rights... welcome to the real world, NEVER piss off or disrespect a cop.... , and it's spelled.. "reckless" not "wreckless". In the future, ALWAYS Take out BOTH your license and CCW permit, I keep mine back to back with my d/l in my wallet.
Son... regardless what the LEO did, you are lucky not to have gotten locked up. You were fortunate your firearm was in plain sight. as for your rights... welcome to the real world, NEVER piss off or disrespect a cop.... , and it's spelled.. "reckless" not "wreckless". In the future, ALWAYS Take out BOTH your license and CCW permit, I keep mine back to back with my d/l in my wallet.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
This Cop and cops you speak of are a continuing problem for the police department. If it's the law, follow it. You made a mistake, learn from it.
As far as him going through the rest of your stuff, did you object to it? It really depends on state law and how far they tore apart the 4th amendment, but no, a traffic violation should be an unreasonable excuse to search your personal belongings. Keep your doors locked, only allow them to search your vehicle if they have a warrant.
JohnnyAce1
JohnnyAce1
Seems to me the dashboard is a fairly dumb place to travel with a weapon.
Im not saying i did everything right in the situation.. the gun was on my hip in a holster when i was driving still in OC position... i took it off and stuck it on my dash when i was being pulled over. I should have just given him my CCW permit with my license and never would have gotten into all of that. Its definitely a learning lesson.
The only reason i really posted on here was to figure out where i went wrong and if im open carrying in a vehicle and driving what would be the law on having to inform of my ccw permit?
Obviously i was wrong about not informing.
I should have been more clear while i was traveling the gun was in the holster on my hip still in OC. When i was being pulled over i took it and put it on the dash.
I realize i am Lucky to not be locked up for it... i was very respectful to the officer, saying Yes Sir, No Sir, didnt have an attitude with him whatsoever. In the future i will for sure hand him both no matter where my gun is.
Heres a question i have a gumcreek customs holster mounted under my steering wheel, if i were to put my gun there would it be considered concealed or not? I usually only OC since my gun is a full size HK 9MM.
Why were you wrong about not informing?
§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.
Were you carrying a concealed handgun when you were approached or addressed by the officer? NO. No requirement to inform.
IMHO, the only "error" made was any statements and harrassment made by the police officer that you must inform and could be arrested for not informing were erroneous, unless you were carrying a concealed handgun.
Under the rules of Terry v. Ohio, under which traffic stops also fall - if the officer has reasonable cause to believe the subject, lawfully detained, is armed and presently presents a danger, the officer may frisk the subject for weapons, and during a traffic stop, they may search, without warrant or consent, that area of the vehicle from which the subject may readily obtain a weapon. The officer may temporarily seize any weapons they find until such time the detainment is over, or their fears of the subject presenting a danger to the officer is relieved. In the case of a permit holder, the officer's fears should be alleviated as soon as they receive information from the state or county that the subject possesses a VALID permit.
So, from the sound of it, in this case - the officer sees the gun, has no information from the state or county yet that the subject possesses a VALID permit, he has the authority to frisk the subject, seize the weapon, and search the area of the vehicle immediately accessible from which a weapon may be readily obtained. Once he determines the subject possesses a VALID permit, he should then return the firearm and continue on with the traffic stop in a normal manner.
Notice I highlighted VALID. The officer has no indication that your pemit is valid just because you hand it to him.
BTW, It's not even a crime to not inform the officer. It is only an infraction, just like a traffic ticket, you pay the fine and move on:
§ 14‑415.21. Violations of this Article punishable as an infraction.
(a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14‑415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14‑3.1. In lieu of paying a fine the person may surrender the permit.
§ 14‑3.1. Infraction defined; sanctions.
(a) An infraction is a noncriminal violation of law not punishable by imprisonment. Unless otherwise provided by law, the sanction for a person found responsible for an infraction is a penalty of not more than one hundred dollars ($100.00). The proceeds of penalties for infractions are payable to the county in which the infraction occurred for the use of the public schools.
And this is why the must inform law is so entirely stupid. Let's say a person actually carrying a concealed handgun is pulled over, fails to inform, and the officer takes his driver's license back to the car. He finds out from the state or county the person stopped has a permit. That SHOULD alleviate any fear the officer might have the subject is presently dangerous to the officer. Also, the officer did not have enough concern initially to even ask about firearms, so why would finding out the person possess a license to carry a firearm legally, and has continued to meet the requirement for that license, increase his concern that wasn't there when he had no idea whom he had stopped.
So...now armed with the information that the person is licensed to carry a gun, the officer returns to the vehicle. Does the officer have the authority to frisk/search for weapons without consent? IMHO, that authority was removed when the officer found out the person is licensed. Possessing a license to carry a handgun in now way indicates the person IS carrying a handgun at the time. So, now, IMHO, the only thing the officer has the authority to do is ask the person if they are carrying a concealed handgun, and if the answer is "yes", write the person a ticket that contributes a maximum of $100 to the county's public school system. If the person answers no to that question, I see no authority existing for the officer to frisk the person and verify their answer is truthful without the subject's consent.
So...now armed with the information that the person is licensed to carry a gun, the officer returns to the vehicle. Does the officer have the authority to frisk/search for weapons without consent? IMHO, that authority was removed when the officer found out the person is licensed. Possessing a license to carry a handgun in now way indicates the person IS carrying a handgun at the time. So, now, IMHO, the only thing the officer has the authority to do is ask the person if they are carrying a concealed handgun, and if the answer is "yes", write the person a ticket that contributes a maximum of $100 to the county's public school system. If the person answers no to that question, I see no authority existing for the officer to frisk the person and verify their answer is truthful without the subject's consent.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I'd rather not be limited at all...but alas we live in the land of used to be free.So basically i did nothing wrong and i shouldnt have been hassled at all... from i understood from concealed carry class is exactly what you just said.. no need to inform if not concealed carrying.
I dont care that he pulled me over thinking that i had spun my tires.. thats not a big deal.. its a traffic stop, but the fact that he found out i had my ccw and made a big deal that i didnt tell him just didnt sit right with me...
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