Recently moved to Missouri, Ret, Police Officer needs to Qualify ?

[duke7595]

First ,Congrats for retiring from Jersey. Retired for there too and found my way to Florida. Local Sheriffs Dept. does HR-218 quals for retired guys......I smile at the range knowing that my handgun is older than the line officers running the quals.[/QUOT


Thank you, and congratulations to you, I "m happy your still in one piece, the State has become very bad over the years and I think it's getting worse.
Hope you are happy in Fla. lot of retired N.J. cops there.
Regarding qualifying, I'm scheduled to do so at the Missouri State university. Stay safe and good luck..

 

[duke7595]

I took the class at MSU last weekend. Took about 2.5 hrs between classroom and range. I left with my certificate and a new wallet card. They do the classes every couple months and it's worth the trip.

Glad to hear all went well. How did you like MSU qualification course ? I go on the 23rd. I'm thinking of using my old S/W/ 357 revolver, do you think I will have enough time
for reloading ? I'm not sure what the time frame is, or how many rounds are fired, as this will be my first time qualifying here. All I do know is that it consists of a 50 round course
and that's all I know. Any thoughts on your part would be appreciated regarding the use of the revolver.

Sincerely,
Duke

 

[grizzerr]

It was really basic. Range was from 3 to about 12yds on a standard B27 target shooting strong, support and 2 handed. 50rds and 70% to pass. The times are very generous and we had guys shooting revolvers, single and double stack semi autos. No problem using your S&W. Good instructors and great bunch of guys in the class. Have a good time! Maybe we'll meet there next year.

 

[duke7595]

It was really basic. Range was from 3 to about 12yds on a standard B27 target shooting strong, support and 2 handed. 50rds and 70% to pass. The times are very generous and we had guys shooting revolvers, single and double stack semi autos. No problem using your S&W. Good instructors and great bunch of guys in the class. Have a good time! Maybe we'll meet there next year.

grizzerr ,
Thanks for the heads up, almost sounds to easy. My concern using my S/W is now no longer a concern. I'm sure some are saying why would he want to use such a weapon. I have always liked the Smith, when I joined the Dept. we were issued a departmental S/W and ammo, you had no say in the matter, I carried this weapon at the academy
where I qualified for the first time, and upon graduation on duty. Not to long later we were issued Glocks and that was the end of S/W revolver as a duty weapon.

I sure hope we do meet up next year , I'm making a note to email you when that time rolls around again, perhaps we can set up the same class.

Sincerely,
Duke

 

[grizzerr]

Duke,
It was easy. I still have a warm spot for revolvers too. I carry a J frame fairly often. Drop me an e-mail [email protected] for the class next year and we'll have lunch.

 

[duke7595]

Duke,
It was easy. I still have a warm spot for revolvers too. I carry a J frame fairly often. Drop me an e-mail [email protected] for the class next year and we'll have lunch.

You bet, thanks again for everything. P.S. See you next year.

 

[blueknight]

duke7595, grizzerr, & protectnsurvive, et. al.,
Thanks for all this great info. I am a retired Air Force LEO living in Illinois just on this side of the river from St. Louis, MO, but retired out of Wash DC. I am in the process of getting my IL Retired Officer Concealed Carry permit, but I'm considering moving to the Missouri side. My biggest concern was how MO supports LEOSA for out-of-state retirees. I'm glad to see there's a mechanism in place. Duke, congratulations on your retirement from NJ; I spent 5 years in South Jersey and loved it there.

-blueknight
“In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity” -- Albert Einstein

 

[grizzerr]

Welcome blueknight.
How's that work with LEOSA and retired military LEOs? I know in January obumma signed an amended version, but what do you use for an ID?
I'm asking because I had a student last year who was retired Air Force LEO.

 

[duke7595]

Hello blueknight,

" My biggest concern was how MO supports LEOSA for out-of-state retirees."

Most of the LEO,S know I am a retired police officer, at least in the area I live. I have had one encounter with a rookie patrolman who had no idea what LEOSA was, if you can believe this.
You would think he would have learned about LEOSA in his academy.
In any event I asked him to call his supervisor , he did and all was well, and I was sent down the road. So, this incident was a learning experience for both of us, I learned not all
active LEO,S are aware of LEOSA. I now keep a copy of my retirement papers with me as well as the LEOSA law just in case.

I see you were in S.J., yes there is a few decent places left in the State. I grew up in the S.J. area, nothing like it is now I can remember as a kid there were still working farms,
not to many left these days it's a shame because there was some real nice spots back then.

Hello grizzerr how you doing ? Now grizzerr advised me where I could get qualified and i'm sure he could give you some good information regarding you're initial question.
Glad to have you with us.

Sincerely,
duke

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Some jurisdictions defer qualification of HR218/LEOSA to licensed CCW instructors. This is the case in Nevada. The qualification course is identical for Nevada CFP holders. It's at the discretion of the State the LEO retiree is currently residing in as to what the qualification requirements are for HR218/LEOSA.

I would contact the jurisdiction that issues CCWs where you presently live on LEOSA application and qualification requirements. I don't understand why people make this so hard. LEOSA is essentially a federal CCW for active duty and retired LEOs. Common sense dictates you should contact the entity that also issues civilian CCWs to get the correct information on this topic in their State of residency.

 

[grizzerr]

LEOSA is much more than a CCW because it exempts qualified LE Officers and retirees from state laws prohibitions and restrictions on concealed carry firearms. Nevada is interesting and an exception that they allow Sheriff approved CCW Instructors to conduct the qualifications. That's definitely not the case here in MO which is what this discussion has been about.

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

This is how LEOSA/HR218 works;

• The issuing jurisdiction does a name check and verifies the LEO employment history of the LEOSA/HR218 retiree applicant. It has also been made clear that someone who qualifies for LEOSA/HR218 does not qualify for a Brady/NICS exemption as there's no fingerprint check done. This has been verified by Douglas County NV Undersheriff Howell who is the Chair of the Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association CCW subcommittee during the last public CCW forum last week. It is available from the Nevada State Legislature website if you wish to obtain a copy of it. LEOSA/HR218 has been part of a Nevada county sheriff CCW detail since its inception.
  
  
• The issuing jurisdiction performs an annual range qualification of the LEOSA retiree holder to maintain the LEOSA/HR218 certification. They have the discretion to delegate to some qualified entity. There is no federal law that States it has to be conducted by the issuing agency the LEO retiree resides in but an authorized entity.

It also stands to reason that a MO county sheriff would know the LEOSA/HR218 qualification process for retirees. A State is also not obligated to provide LEOSA for retirees. I don't think all 50 States have a LEOSA qualification procedure in place in which case the retiree would have to either move to a jurisdiction that does provide LEOSA or get a MO CCW endorsement. I've reviewed the thread and no one has posted the exact process for LEOSA retirees in MO, not even you.

However, I know the exact process for LEOSA/HR218 in Nevada. I've qualified them myself. The LVMPD CCW detail handles the paperwork and verifying LEO retiree status, I just sign off on the range qualification.

 

[grizzerr]

I'm well aware of how LEOSA works as I used to do the classes for retirees in Colorado. Nobody said anything about a Brady/NICS exemption, but as I said I found it interesting how Nevada conducts LEOSA qualifications.

Every MO Sheriff I've spoken to knows the qualification process and they either choose not to do the qualifications or to only qualify their own retirees. In MO the instructor conducting the qualification must be a POST certified instructor. Since you asked, Link Removed

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

I'm well aware of how LEOSA works as I used to do the classes for retirees in Colorado. Nobody said anything about a Brady/NICS exemption, but as I said I found it interesting how Nevada conducts LEOSA qualifications.

There is no class requirement for LEOSA retirees unless the LEOSA retiree's jurisdiction requires it. All Nevada requires is the range qualification.

It was an issue brought up during the last Nevada CCW public forum earlier this month; LEOSA and NICS exemptions. Nevada charges one of the highest fees for a NICS check at $25 per NICS check.

Every MO Sheriff I've spoken to knows the qualification process and they either choose not to do the qualifications or to only qualify their own retirees. In MO the instructor conducting the qualification must be a POST certified instructor. Since you asked, Link Removed

By your own admission quoted above, out of State LEO retirees are basically SOL. Why didn't you say that before rather than dance around the issue? The original poster needs to get a MO CCW endorsement if he wishes to carry and isn't eligible for retiree LEOSA in his chosen jurisdiction of retirement since MO sheriffs won't qualify out of State LEO retirees for LEOSA.

To the original poster, if you want out of State LEOSA retiree qualification, retire outside of MO. It's obvious that MO does not want your tax dollars.

 

[grizzerr]

There is no class requirement for LEOSA retirees unless the LEOSA retiree's jurisdiction requires it. All Nevada requires is the range qualification.

It was an issue brought up during the last Nevada CCW public forum earlier this month; LEOSA and NICS exemptions. Nevada charges one of the highest fees for a NICS check at $25 per NIC.S check.

Okay, still not sure what that has to do with this thread


By your own admission quoted above, out of State LEO retirees are basically SOL. Why didn't you say that before rather than dance around the issue? The original poster needs to get a MO CCW endorsement if he wishes to carry and isn't eligible for retiree LEOSA in his chosen jurisdiction of retirement since MO sheriffs won't qualify out of State LEO retirees for LEOSA.

To the original poster, if you want out of State LEOSA retiree qualification, retire outside of MO. It's obvious that MO does not want your tax dollars.

Out of state Retired LEOs are not SOL. I said "every MO Sheriff I've spoken to" I never inferred I'd spoken to all 114 of them. If you'd read the entire thread you'd have known that thanks to protectnserve, who posted pertinent information, the question was resolved back in January. The OP as well as myself have attended the Retired Officer class conducted at Missouri State University in Springfield and received our certificates.

 

[LVLouisCyphre]

Out of state Retired LEOs are not SOL. I said "every MO Sheriff I've spoken to" I never inferred I'd spoken to all 114 of them. If you'd read the entire thread you'd have known that thanks to protectnserve, who posted pertinent information, the question was resolved back in January. The OP as well as myself have attended the Retired Officer class conducted at Missouri State University in Springfield and received our certificates.

I went back through the thread. The pertinent link does not specifically mention HR218 or LEOSA nor does it mention it satisfies the requirements of LEOSA or HR218. The term "retired officer firearm class" is pretty ambiguous from a legal standpoint.

 

[duke7595]

Out of state Retired LEOs are not SOL. I said "every MO Sheriff I've spoken to" I never inferred I'd spoken to all 114 of them. If you'd read the entire thread you'd have known that thanks to protectnserve, who posted pertinent information, the question was resolved back in January. The OP as well as myself have attended the Retired Officer class conducted at Missouri State University in Springfield and received our certificates.

Hello grizerr,

You are absolutely 100 % correct, as you stated this question was resolved back in January and yes we indeed received our certifications from the Missouri State university located in Springfield which satisfies the requirements as retired police officers under LEOSA, and therefore entitled to carry concealed in all 50 States and the territories of the USA.
All retired police officers who wish to carry need a Police I.D. from their respective departments that does not have an expiration date and states retired.

It would make life much easier on the retired LEO if the Government would issue some form of I.D. which indicates yes they are retired in good standing and meet the requirements under LEOSA
this would alleviate verification by any agency having to contact the retired LEO's old dept. .
I would be more than happy to fill out a form and pay a fee for such an I.D. card.

 

[grizzerr]

Yes it'd be easier duke, but then again we'd be relying on the feds and Id rather not. Hope to do the class with you Feb 2014 and go to lunch.

 

[duke7595]

Grizzer,

Sure will make a point in Feb. to do that. Regarding the I.D. I see your point, reason I brought it up was that i was stopped and showed my I,D. w/ cert. but I guess this was not sufficient
for this particular LEO as he made a long drawn out affair of contacting my old dept. to check me out. What made it even longer was the person from my old dept. who took the call did not
know me. Now we all know when we retire we will be forgotten to a degree, with new guys coming on and the old retiring, plus my dept. is large which makes it even more difficult.
Finally I persuaded the LEO to call back and ask for a supervisor, which he should have done to begin with and luckily I was remembered.
I called back myself latter that day and asked why didn't the new guy check the database, well i found out there is no database for retirees at my dept. .
So you can see why I would like to have a better system in place for this type of situation. Grizzerr, you know that our certs. are just that they do not verify all the pertinent data (background)
info. which would guarantee all the requirements needed to qualify as a retired LEO. All I did was show my ret, I.D. when I qualified and they said it was sufficient but they do not
verify anything other than your qualification.

I now carry a copy of my personal retirement information w/ the State letterhead, will this help ? I don't know it all depends on who the LEO is, and how far he cares to take it.

 

[grizzerr]

Yeah, the ID could be a problem anywhere. My old department has me e-mail them a copy of my annual certification and they then mail me an updated CO POST card. I doubt that would make much difference anywhere but CO though.