Question for all.

walknotinfear

New member
Has there ever been a situation when 2 permit holders pulled out weapons and began shooting at each other? I thought it would be interesting to hear of any past cases when both permit holders both thought their lives were in danger at the same time from one another. Anyone?
 

There was a situation in Mi. recently A bit of road rage convinced two guys to pull their weapons.
Both dead.
 
Natural selection...?
Thanks for the press, Mr. Taylor and Mr. Pullum.
 
How about you read this and tell us what you would've done if you were Pullum.

Ok, I read it. I see your point.
If I were Pullum, I would have made it a point to look into Taylor's car and see the medications he was prescribed by the state, at which time I would have developed a deep caring and understanding about his past, instead of sending him to an early grave.
You're right. If Pullum were still alive, I'd say somebody should hunt his thug-ass down.
That's all correct, isn't it, Blues?

Oh wait - you were implying I should empathize with Pullum, not Taylor...
Geez, I'm having trouble following your feelings on this stuff, Blues.
But I'm convinced it's my fault.
 
Ok, I read it. I see your point.
If I were Pullum, I would have made it a point to look into Taylor's car and see the medications he was prescribed by the state, at which time I would have developed a deep caring and understanding about his past, instead of sending him to an early grave.
You're right. If Pullum were still alive, I'd say somebody should hunt his thug-ass down.
That's all correct, isn't it, Blues?

Oh wait - you were implying I should empathize with Pullum, not Taylor...
Geez, I'm having trouble following your feelings on this stuff, Blues.
But I'm convinced it's my fault.

So long, everybody. Enjoy your boss.

Good grief.
Facepalm-smiley-animated.gif
 
Not going to Monday quarterback what happened but I would of never stopped to confront the guy.

I did have a similar situation years back. I had a guy on my rear and he wanted me to pull over to fight. He twice tried to run me off the interstate. The entire time I was on the phone with 911 telling them everything. The operator instructed me to get off at exit 59 and there would be police officers there waiting. Once I exited the highway the ass h--le did not follow me off the interstate. I stopped to talk to the officers and identified myself as a law enforcement officer. I did not get a tag number. One rookie cop asked me why didn't I flash my badge out the window and I said that I had kids in my car and didn't want to endanger them and was just trying to keep my distance. The SGT than told the rookie to shut up and told me that I did the correct thing by keeping my distance, not stopping and by calling 911. True story.
 
Good grief.
Facepalm-smiley-animated.gif


Thanks for the link. It puts things into perspective, including you never know who else might be on meds!:wacko: I still feel for the most part that "an armed society is a polite society" or should be. It's clear that Taylor had problems. Too bad. Trying not to analyze the whole thing but if Pullum felt threatened and needed to respond by getting out of his car he should have had his weapon with him and I don't mean brandishing. I think Pullum should never have left his car. He could have washed his car another time. The way walknotinfear handled his situation or a modified version fitting a particular scenario would be the way to go.
I think that every guy that can "take care" of themselves and maybe practices a little martial arts knows two things. One, he can defend himself better then most. Two, there is always someone out there way better,tougher then you and will kick your A so be governed accordingly.
When you carry you have to know that you just might have the final word and the wise thing would be to practice AVOIDANCE! Never be afraid to eat quiche or wear pink shirts! :smile:
 
From the article that I linked to above:

Pullum's wife, Teri Pullum, who was in the car along with his mother, told police they had planned to stop at the car wash. About 120 feet away, her husband said a vehicle behind them "needed to get off his ass."

Pullum was less than 50 yards from his destination before the car behind him had been there long enough to say something about it to his wife and mother. Not a lot of time to make a decision to go past his destination, and even if he had, he still wasn't the aggressor.

There is zero evidence that Pullum "stopped to confront the guy." He stopped at his destination according to both of the people in the car with him.

Teri Pullum told police Taylor's vehicle was so close they couldn't see its bumper. Her husband didn't react with any communication, such as hand gestures or tapping on the brakes, she said. They didn't know why Taylor was tailgating and there hadn't been any signs of a problem, she said.

While certainly not the best tactical decision he ever made to stop, as short as the "event" was up to that point, would it not be a somewhat natural notion to think the tailgater would simply drive on by if he just got off the road?

In any case, at the point at which he did pull into his destination's parking lot, there is no evidence that he considered the event anything more than a guy that "needed to get off his ass." How many times have every one of us said that when nothing else untoward happened after the tailgater went around us or we got out of their way?

Teri Pullum told police she heard her husband tell Taylor he needed to "stay off his ass." The two men were nose-to-nose as they exchanged words, but she couldn't make out their conversation. One man pushed the other and she saw Taylor pull out a handgun and shoot her husband at "almost point blank range," the police report states. A medical examiner's autopsy confirmed that Pullum was shot from close range, the 50-page police report shows.

While it might be an interesting factoid to know which man pushed the other, as it says further in the article, Pullum exited his vehicle without his weapon, so he certainly had no intention of shooting or really harming anybody that night. Another boneheaded tactical decision to be sure, but absolutely zero criminal or otherwise nefarious intent can be discerned from anything he did that night.

An auctioneer who contacted police after the incident said Taylor called him in April, identifying himself as "RC Taylor" and saying he wanted to get rid of some of his guns "due to his condition," which was not elaborated on. The auctioneer told police that Taylor, during a lengthy conversation, "carried on about the militia, the NRA, and conspiracies reference governmental gun control," according to the report.

The auctioneer told police he contacted Taylor in May in regard to an auction and Taylor couldn't recall their previous conversation.

No, my name is not "RC Taylor." LOL Sorry, couldn't resist.

It is interesting though, that one out of the two men involved is said to have been trying to get rid of his guns "due to his condition." Is there any kind of physical malady that anyone can think of that would necessitate such an effort? Obviously he still had the physical ability to carry and fire a weapon. Assuming the auctioneer told the truth to police, it is reasonable to believe that Taylor had a mental "condition" that he himself was aware of enough to consider himself too unstable to have guns.

Officers located a bag of about nine medications that treat depression, anxiety and insomnia in Taylor's car. Authorities asked his wife about his health, and she said he had been doing "pretty well" and his mental health was "good." Taylor's wife said his psychiatrist was surprised to hear of his involvement in the incident.

So apparently Taylor himself was more aware of the severity of his mental illness than his own psychiatrist was, at least back in April of 2013 he was (the article is dated November 1, 2013, and the incident happened Sept. 18, 2013).

As far as not wanting to engage in "Monday morning quarterbacking," why not? That's pretty much what happens on forums like this. When we're discussing specific incidences of defensive uses of carried guns, we're always trying to put ourselves in the position of the carrier who was justified in firing his weapon. We certainly don't attempt to identify with the criminal, the unjustified instigator, or in this case, the mentally ill person who went off the rails for no discernible reason.

To scrutinize (or Monday morning quarterback) Pullum's actions and/or tactical decisions in relation to how any one of us would react in the same or similar situation is perfectly fair and proper.

To avoid discussion of the events and speak untruths about someone who simply pulled into the parking lot of his destination, but accuse him of stopping "...to confront the guy" is hardly fair to the one guy that was quite obviously the only justified shooter that night.

I suppose to be fair, there is an article linked at the page I linked to earlier where the investigating detective is quoted in the title of the page as saying, "Fatal road rage lessons: Detective says 'I wouldn't advise pulling over and confronting anyone.'" That article is dated Sept. 21, 2013, just three days into the investigation though. The author of the article says that police are having trouble with the investigation because of a lack of "independent witnesses." That's total crap as far as I'm concerned. The police report says that Pullum was shot at very close range, corroborating his wife's assertion that it was at near "point blank" range. Both Pullum's wife and mother were independent witnesses. They certainly weren't principles to the events. They were eye witnesses to most of the entire event, maybe all of it. Being related to a victim is not reasonable cause to disregard what they said about what happened. On Sept. 21, there was no justification for publicly questioning the veracity of their witness reports, which later were proven true through putting all the facts together, including the wife's 911 call, other 911 calls, autopsy reports, physical evidence at the scene etc. The fact is, the cop was wrong for taking for granted that Pullum pulled into the parking lot to "confront" Taylor. According to the only surviving independent witnesses, he pulled into his predetermined destination, and Taylor pulled in behind to confront him.

Here is a link to all the articles that MLive.com has done on the story, the last one being dated Nov. 26, 2013 in which the toxicology reports on both drivers were reported to "show no excessive medications or alcohol" found in either man's system.

I am certainly nobody's "boss," but when I see knee-jerk reactions to an event that lays equivalent amounts of blame on the victim of a crime as on the aggressor, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask such people to validate those statements based on the available facts instead of their uninformed, knee-jerk reactions. So I posted a link and asked someone to do just that. Boo-friggin'-hoo.

Blues
 
No have not seen or heard of any situation like this. But surely hope this never happens cause if it did, we in the right to bare arms crowd would just catch more heat and be more under the microscope to do so. And if (2) permit holders ever felt to do this, my opinion is they shouldn't be permit holders. The first thing with any right to carry is to have control and no when to and not to pull out the heat.
 
No have not seen or heard of any situation like this. But surely hope this never happens cause if it did, we in the right to bare arms crowd would just catch more heat and be more under the microscope to do so. And if (2) permit holders ever felt to do this, my opinion is they shouldn't be permit holders. The first thing with any right to carry is to have control and no when to and not to pull out the heat.

I feel compelled to repeat:

Good grief.
Facepalm-smiley-animated.gif


Blues
 
No have not seen or heard of any situation like this. But surely hope this never happens cause if it did, we in the right to bare arms crowd would just catch more heat and be more under the microscope to do so. And if (2) permit holders ever felt to do this, my opinion is they shouldn't be permit holders. The first thing with any right to carry is to have control and no when to and not to pull out the heat.

You can wear short sleeved shirts with your crowd whenever you want.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened. It Never should have happened.

In My Humble Opinion.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
49,527
Messages
610,761
Members
74,965
Latest member
Roosince1911
Back
Top