Question About Responding to Someone Elses Victimization

[Cherokee]

Recently a friend and his wife were walking through a downtown area near bars and such. He doesn't carry but they were witness to two men come running from across the street and completely cold cocking a man before proceeding to ground and pound him for roughly 15 seconds. They then hightailed it off. No one jumped in to break it up but several people called the cops. My question is this, if you witness such an event or similar event, would/could you at least draw your weapon and order them to the ground to allow the police to arrive and take them or do you just have to leave it be and try to intervene and break it up, thus allowing them to go free (which they did)?



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[JimTh]

You are allowed to use deadly force if it is to protect the life or health of a stranger. You can't use deadly force to break up a fist fight. The difficulty is trying to determine which is which.

 

[Cherokee]

Yeah, in this instance the guy wound up in the hospital for a while. For all intents and purposes the way they described it was they weren't sure he was gonna make it the way they were beating him. Still baffles me why no one jumped in.

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[walknotinfear]

Now based on the information you just wrote I would of done nothing as far as drawing my weapon. I may of just yelled and said the cops were on the way but I would not of gotten involved with a weapon. In the state I live in a private person carrying a concealed firearm could use deadly force to stop a forcible felony. But simple assault (from what you wrote) or maybe aggravated assault wouldn't fall under a forcible felony (I am not a lawyer). I believe in my state the types of crimes a privater person can use deadly force to stop a crime would be ; Rape, Murder, car jacking with a firearm, bank robbery with a firearm, etc. To recap, the situation you explained I would of done nothing as far as with a firearm.

 

[Peggy Reist]

That's just it, you don't know if they're using potentially deadly force. I saw a video today of a man getting hit with one blow to the head and dying on the spot. That seems to be the intent of the "knockout game". Mostly they just knock somebody out, but the real purpose is to kill them with just one hit.
This situation doesn't sound quite the same, but if not, what WAS the point of it?

 

[sdprof]

As is often pointed out in discussions like this, you better be darn sure you know what's going on, who's who, before you introduce deadly force into a situation that does not directly involve you and yours.

 

[wolf_fire]

Cherokee,

Let me add to your scenario. You see the victim getting beat up, you pull your firearm and order the attackers to stop. With bravado, they stand up and walk toward you (weaponless). They call you wonderful names like a$$hole, and the like. As they approach they goad you and ask what are you going to do with that gun you little wussy. They are now five feet away, four feet away, three feet away. What do you do?

You can't use it on them, they are without a weapon.

So to answer your question, in a word, NO. Don't draw your firearm unless you are stopping serious bodily injury or death.

What could you do instead? If you think you can physically remove two men from the victim, then do so. If you can't, then you call 911, and you be the best witness you possibly can.

 

[gsim]

disparity of force...2 on 1...good enough for me. I'm not sure i'd put myself legally on the line for some random guy getting beat on the street without knowing the particulars...but i'd be sure to start yelling at them to stop.

 

[JustTheFacts]

And that's why a cell phone and some mace are a good idea. Call the police and be prepared with less lethal.

But two men coming after me who already showed a willingness to beat another? Sounds like grounds for self defense with a firearm.

 

[Jarhead6541]

wolf_fire----Your additional coloring helps to put things into perspective here. I do like "JustTheFacts" response that mace could also be used. I would add that a stun gun, good dog, a distraction [throw water on them, etc.], horn in a can, or some other form of non-lethal force may be employed.
I'm getting up in years, but I do still enjoy the adrenalin rush of pounding out dirtbags whenever legally possible, though this technique is increasingly frowned upon lately. Depending on who the victim was, I'd probably shove my weapon in the wife's purse and have a little non-verbal discussion with the creeps, as it would irk me to no end watching them get away with it.

Right or wrong, this is how these situations were handled where & when I grew up. No cops, courts or lawyers involved.

 

[Cherokee]

See my first thought is that exactly, run in and just start laying into one of them because in times past two or three other good Samaritans would have helped out. But parts of these big cities are becoming so liberalized and thinking is so "progressive" all we're doing is raising a bunch of tight jean wearing pansies who don't know how to throw a punch much less end a fight. /end rant

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[MamaLiberty]

From my blog post:
Unreported ? The Crime That Didn?t Happen | The Price of Liberty

One of the things discussed often by those of us who carry a gun is the possibility of needing to come to the rescue of another person, sometimes a stranger. This can be very dangerous, and great care must be taken not to make a bad situation worse.

I had just come out of the grocery store in Rapid City, South Dakota one late afternoon, and discovered a young man and a woman in a heated argument right next to my car. He began to hit her in the face and she was crying. I yelled at him to STOP, and he turned with a snarl, taking one step toward me. I gripped the gun and flipped off the retention strap. He saw what I was doing and immediately ran around the front of his car and got into the driver’s seat. I asked the woman if she needed help, but she snarled at me as well saying, “mind your own business.” Opening the car door, she got in and they drove away.

What if he had continued to come toward me? I could have turned and run away, of course, but I hate to think what would have happened if he’d grabbed me and I had to draw and fire the gun. His woman would not likely have been a friendly witness, and there were no other people around close just then. It was a very frightening experience.

I didn’t call the police that time either. No proof, no license number for the car, and no real interest in being further involved. If that woman didn’t mind being beaten, it wasn’t my job to prevent it.

 

[kelcarry]

You are allowed to use deadly force if it is to protect the life or health of a stranger. You can't use deadly force to break up a fist fight. The difficulty is trying to determine which is which.

In SC we have the Alter Ego Rule that allows you to act on behalf of a stranger as if the attack and imminent danger is on your person. Trouble is that this all sounds goody goody but you can never be sure of what really happened before you came on the scene. The supposed BG might actually be the good guy and vice versa. As good as it sounds in the law, if this involves strangers you are better off calling 911 and being a good witness and staying away from assuming that this was true imminent danger.