Pulled over and disarmed by LEO

[slamhouse]

Recently, while traveling with my utility trailer in tow. A man having a bad day and screaming lunicities at me for merging with a trailer decided to follow me for 30 miles to where i was going. Once I exited the freeway, i made a circle through a parking lot to confirm he was following me, I then phoned the local authorites and two miles down the road, two LEO's pulled both of us over parking in between.

The Officer came to my window, I handed the usuals including my CPL, He asked where it was, in which i informed him it was holstered on my right hip and another pistol in my drivers door. He then asked me to exit my suv without reaching for my gun(he had a sence of humor), and as i exited, he grabbed my right hand and held it behind my back as he grabbed my pistol and placed in on my center console. Then politely asked me to stand behind the trailer while the ordeal took place.

The other driver who is apparently a retired LEO claimed i hit his vehicle in which there was no damage and no contact made between the two. The officer took pictures in my defence that both were undamaged.

Overall a good experience by the LEO.

 

[Fallschirmjäger]

"Good" in that you didn't get shot, maybe.
"Not so good" in that you were disarmed without any suspicion of being armed and dangerous.


Perhaps you could explain where the unwarranted seizure of your personal effects without a reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime is somehow ""good"" for either you or for society?

 

[BluesStringer]

Recently, while traveling with my utility trailer in tow. A man having a bad day and screaming lunicities at me for merging with a trailer decided to follow me for 30 miles to where i was going. Once I exited the freeway, i made a circle through a parking lot to confirm he was following me, I then phoned the local authorites and two miles down the road, two LEO's pulled both of us over parking in between.

The Officer came to my window, I handed the usuals including my CPL, He asked where it was, in which i informed him it was holstered on my right hip and another pistol in my drivers door. He then asked me to exit my suv without reaching for my gun(he had a sence of humor), and as i exited, he grabbed my right hand and held it behind my back as he grabbed my pistol and placed in on my center console. Then politely asked me to stand behind the trailer while the ordeal took place.

The other driver who is apparently a retired LEO claimed i hit his vehicle in which there was no damage and no contact made between the two. The officer took pictures in my defence that both were undamaged.

Overall a good experience by the LEO.

Is it a requirement by law that you inform LEOs that you're armed in your state (that you didn't tell us which one you live in)? If so, I get why you'd say it went alright, though I would not agree with that assessment, because there was no reason on Earth to disarm you. If not though, the only thing that went alright is that you got to lick the boots of someone whom you must put on a pedestal so far above yourself that you didn't even have to bend over. If not required by law to inform, and you do it anyway, then any action by the cop that ensues as a result of that voluntary disclosure is on you, and if those actions are abusive, illegal, threatening, intentionally intimidating or injurious to you, nothing will happen to the cop once he tells his superiors that "...I just heard him say he had a gun and all I could think about was getting home to my wife and kids after my shift."

Telling cops anything that you're not required by law to tell them can never do you any good. And I do mean never.

Blues

 

[apvbguy]

why did you offer your "cpl" to the cop?

 

[slamhouse]

I offer my cpl as i know I will be exiting the car for the issue and I know LEO's dont like surprises. In my eyes it's a move to be seen as a respectful and law abiding gun owner.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I offer my cpl as i know I will be exiting the car for the issue and I know LEO's dont like surprises. In my eyes it's a move to be seen as a respectful and law abiding gun owner.

For which he returned the favor by physically restraining you upon exiting the vehicle, which you deem to be a good encounter.

 

[BigSlick]

and as i exited, he grabbed my right hand and held it behind my back as he grabbed my pistol and placed in on my center console.

That sounds like an assault to me.

 

[apvbguy]

I offer my cpl as i know I will be exiting the car for the issue and I know LEO's dont like surprises. In my eyes it's a move to be seen as a respectful and law abiding gun owner.

did you pee in your pants like a dog pees on himself to show his submissiveness?

 

[NavyLCDR]

A little bit of background here, because I know slamhouse...

More likely than not he was open carrying so also more likely than not the gun would have been seen immediately upon exiting the vehicle. Also this isn't the routine traffic stop - in this case there was a very high likelihood that he would be asked to exit the vehicle due to the nature of the encounter and a very high likelihood the gun would be seen immediately upon exiting. This very likely occurred in Washington state - notification is not required by law.

Both parties, slamhouse and the cop (when cops act this way they are not peace officers to me, they are cops) could have handled things better, IMHO.

Once it was determined I was going to be stopped by the cop, I would have opened the glove box, retrieved the folder with my insurance and registration, placed the gun from my holster in the glove box and closed it. After that, I would not have mentioned anything about a gun to the cop. I have been stopped in the past and have retrieved that same folder from my glove box before pulling over - however in that situation I had no need to remove the gun from my holster and place it in the glove box because I had no reason to think I would be asked to step out of the vehicle.

The cop could certainly have handled the situation as a peace officer rather than a cop. He could have said, "This is a volatile situation, would you mind putting your gun under the seat or in the glove box before you get out?" or knowing that the gun was being lawfully carried not said anything at all and if he felt the need to just be in higher state of awareness.

That being said, I do know slamhouse...and I believe if this was just a routine traffic stop for speeding he probably would still produce the CPL and inform the officer ("I know LEO's dont like surprises. In my eyes it's a move to be seen as a respectful and law abiding gun owner") - and the statement "Overall a good experience by the LEO" after being needlessly physically restrained by a cop shows that him and I do have, shall we say, opposing views regarding how to handle interactions with them.

 

[Firefighterchen]

That sounds like an assault to me.

Physically touching him makes it battery I believe.

 

[dstryr]

, and as i exited, he grabbed my right hand and held it behind my back as he grabbed my pistol and placed in on my center console.

That sounds like an assault to me.

Here's the problem, a guy with a shoulder or wrist injury is going to squirm and react in pain to that horseshit maneuver and then end up on the ground with a knee on the back of his neck and the arm cranked even tighter while the cop warns the guy to 'stop resisting'. Its the pain I would be resisting, if not the actual detainment, but at that point the detainee is already in felony territory, depending on the jurisdiction. It was an assault. $.02

 

[slamhouse]

A little bit of background here, because I know slamhouse...

More likely than not he was open carrying so also more likely than not the gun would have been seen immediately upon exiting the vehicle. Also this isn't the routine traffic stop - in this case there was a very high likelihood that he would be asked to exit the vehicle due to the nature of the encounter and a very high likelihood the gun would be seen immediately upon exiting. This very likely occurred in Washington state - notification is not required by law.

Both parties, slamhouse and the cop (when cops act this way they are not peace officers to me, they are cops) could have handled things better, IMHO.

Once it was determined I was going to be stopped by the cop, I would have opened the glove box, retrieved the folder with my insurance and registration, placed the gun from my holster in the glove box and closed it. After that, I would not have mentioned anything about a gun to the cop. I have been stopped in the past and have retrieved that same folder from my glove box before pulling over - however in that situation I had no need to remove the gun from my holster and place it in the glove box because I had no reason to think I would be asked to step out of the vehicle.

The cop could certainly have handled the situation as a peace officer rather than a cop. He could have said, "This is a volatile situation, would you mind putting your gun under the seat or in the glove box before you get out?" or knowing that the gun was being lawfully carried not said anything at all and if he felt the need to just be in higher state of awareness.

That being said, I do know slamhouse...and I believe if this was just a routine traffic stop for speeding he probably would still produce the CPL and inform the officer ("I know LEO's dont like surprises. In my eyes it's a move to be seen as a respectful and law abiding gun owner") - and the statement "Overall a good experience by the LEO" after being needlessly physically restrained by a cop shows that him and I do have, shall we say, opposing views regarding how to handle interactions with them.

John, you do know me quite well and I wish i still knew the family, i love your family.

But you're spot on with your assessment. and in hind sight, it was disgruntling that he momentarily restrained me to disarm me without plausible cause of a potential threat. But in the moment, I let things be and went on with the interaction. Had I not informed him of my firearm, I only fear he would have taken it heavily and escalated the situation upon seeing my firearm(I'm scared of negligence upon LEO's).

But through a normal traffic stop, no cpl would have crossed the window and they would never need to know of my firearm.

 

[NavyLCDR]

But through a normal traffic stop, no cpl would have crossed the window and they would never need to know of my firearm.

Then, apparently, you have changed your mindset in the last year...and if you have, what caused you to rethink the situation?

I personally prefer to inform the officer of firearms in the car as my pistols are often sitting on the passenger seat. And I would rather he know about them and be informed of my cpl than him discovering them and pulling his sidearm out in alarm. I would like the officers mind to be at ease and make his job easier. Their jobs can be stressful enough. If I can put his mind at ease then he will likely go easier on me.

Why is this forum seeming more of people rebellious against authority(police) trying to find a sence of power above them through legal methods. The police are usually here to help us, put yourself in their position and trying to keep people safe and yourself safe while dealing with ******** who feel a need to assert their superiority over you rather than help you make your job easier?

I play devils advocate quite often and I do tend to agree with you in a sense, but I also, not knowing the mental state of the officer in presence, would rather notify them of my firearm and let them make the decision, be it a courteous or inconciderate one, than the officer in an I'll mental state see my pistol and me be at the business end of their firearm.

To each their own...

 

[XD40scinNC]

Disarmed you with force and without warning, and you call it a good experience? Is that because he didn't taze you or pepper spray you?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Disarmed you with force and without warning, and you call it a good experience? Is that because he didn't taze you or pepper spray you?

Well.....let's be fair here. What slamhouse stated was:

Overall a good experience by the LEO.

So, I wonder if after the LEO released his arm, slamhouse looked over his shoulder and asked, "Was that good for you officer? Were you completely satisfied with that?" ;-)

 

[jrs]

Here's the problem, a guy with a shoulder or wrist injury is going to squirm and react in pain to that horseshit maneuver and then end up on the ground with a knee on the back of his neck and the arm cranked even tighter while the cop warns the guy to 'stop resisting'. Its the pain I would be resisting, if not the actual detainment, but at that point the detainee is already in felony territory, depending on the jurisdiction. It was an assault. $.02

My feelings exactly!!! Having just had shoulder surgery, I am finally out of the immobilizer after 6 1/2 weeks, but do not need a sling or other device which would indicate that I have any injury.... BUT... I still cannot reach my 4 O'clock to put on my own belt. So, if the LEO, without warning, cranked my arm back to "control" me while he disarmed me, there would surely be a problem with staying still. My body would surely react to the pain...instinctively... and I can't imagine how the rest of that scenario would have played out.

Would the LEO would most likely interpret my reaction as trying to escape his grasp? What would his reaction and escalation involve? I shudder to think!

 

[S&W645]

My feelings exactly!!! Having just had shoulder surgery, I am finally out of the immobilizer after 6 1/2 weeks, but do not need a sling or other device which would indicate that I have any injury.... BUT... I still cannot reach my 4 O'clock to put on my own belt. So, if the LEO, without warning, cranked my arm back to "control" me while he disarmed me, there would surely be a problem with staying still. My body would surely react to the pain...instinctively... and I can't imagine how the rest of that scenario would have played out.

Would the LEO would most likely interpret my reaction as trying to escape his grasp? What would his reaction and escalation involve? I shudder to think!

The cop would be informed that his department would be getting a bill from my doctors for treatment for his excessive use of force. I haven't had shoulder surgery but have had both of them dislocated more than once. That means that they will do it again with the least amount of force. Last time was just by sleeping on it wrong. And like Navy says, I don't tell unless asked in this state and only because it is the law in Ohio to tell at first encounter.

 

[XD40scinNC]

The cop would be informed that his department would be getting a bill from my doctors for treatment for his excessive use of force. I haven't had shoulder surgery but have had both of them dislocated more than once. That means that they will do it again with the least amount of force. Last time was just by sleeping on it wrong. And like Navy says, I don't tell unless asked in this state and only because it is the law in Ohio to tell at first encounter.

This is assuming you lived through it. Cop grabs your arm and start to twist, you react because of the pain, cop thinks you are resisting and going for your gun, and shoots you.

There is no reason for a cop to go hands-on with any law abiding citizen, armed or not.