President Trump’s Top Six Pro-Gun Moments of 2017

[Ringo]

President Trump's Top Six Pro-Gun Moments of 2017 - Breitbart​

 

[XD40scinNC]

If you take the time to look at that list, not much. The only real action and one that affects only and a very small number of gun owners is the repeal of the Social Security ban.

 

[niceshootintex]

If you take the time to look at that list, not much. The only real action and one that affects only and a very small number of gun owners is the repeal of the Social Security ban.

If they were criminals or proven mentally incompetent then I'd be better able to see your point. There are a half dozen members of my club that would have been affected and it has nothing to with their competence but allows for a family member to better care for their financial holdings and interests. When we start saying "oh, it's just a few thousand" and ignore it then that is the slippery slope we start on. I am actually very surprised to hear you say something like that.

 

[XD40scinNC]

If they were criminals or proven mentally incompetent then I'd be better able to see your point. There are a half dozen members of my club that would have been affected and it has nothing to with their competence but allows for a family member to better care for their financial holdings and interests. When we start saying "oh, it's just a few thousand" and ignore it then that is the slippery slope we start on. I am actually very surprised to hear you say something like that.

Being that I draw SS, most of my friends are in the same bracket, i.e., old farts, but I don't know anyone that the Obama SS ruling would have effected, gun owner or not. I don't have the statistics, I don't even know if they could be found, but I feel confident that SS recipients are a minority of gun owners, and the SS recipients that have someone "officially" handling their finances is a minority of that minority.

OBTW, I handled the day to day mundane finances for my dad when his close up vision and ability to write checks became a challenge for him. Nothing 'official', just added me as a signatory to his checking accounts.

 

[Ringo]

I don't have the statistics, I don't even know if they could be found, but I feel confident that SS recipients are a minority of gun owners

(Research-2013)
Link Removed​

 

[niceshootintex]

Being that I draw SS, most of my friends are in the same bracket, i.e., old farts, but I don't know anyone that the Obama SS ruling would have effected, gun owner or not. I don't have the statistics, I don't even know if they could be found, but I feel confident that SS recipients are a minority of gun owners, and the SS recipients that have someone "officially" handling their finances is a minority of that minority.

OBTW, I handled the day to day mundane finances for my dad when his close up vision and ability to write checks became a challenge for him. Nothing 'official', just added me as a signatory to his checking accounts.

I don't have any stats but my own little world so hope this helps XD.

We have over 1700 members. We actually had a meeting to discuss the issue with affected membership that I didn't attend because I had no reason to be there.
I don't know any of their names due to privacy issues but we have a lot of older members that are very active and they all seem very capable. Our Treasurer told me that it affected half a dozen members who had been ill or fallen, had spent long periods in a hospital or rehab facility, and had granted a trusted fiduciary to manage their affairs. All had life memberships and all but one had returned to the firing line and he was still a member in good standing but still shut in as a result of a broken hip. All of them still had their financial affairs being managed and wanted it that way. Takes away the POA step for any future incidents or illnesses that might befall them.

My concern is the old "first they came for my neighbors" adage. The culture warriors in this country very astutely went after the younger generation through the education system. Smart move and done many times before in other parts of the world. In this particular instance they know that there are a few generations where 2A freedoms are still a boilerplate from their socializastion so they went after the low hanging fruit. Ya know, people who'd have to say OK or they'd take away their check.

At the very least it was a nanny state move done with little thought that would have affected thousands. That's not a huge number unless you're in the roundup. At the worst, it was a calculated move to thin the herd. Unless you are a proven and diagnosed danger to yourself or others then they should stay out of Constitutional freedoms. I haven't seen a lot in the paper about elderly mass murderers so I'm going to assume the best for any American of SS age until proven otherwise.

 

[XD40scinNC]

OK, that's 0.35% (6 out of 1700) of gun owners that collect SS... a very small minority, and extrapolating that the +65 crowd represent 29% of gun owners (Ringo's source), then Trump has actually help about [SUP]1[/SUP]/[SUB]10[/SUB] of 1%. Great for those people, and I still stand by my original statement the only real action Trump has taken affects only a very small portion of gun owners. Actually a smaller number than I guess-ta-mated when I made my original statement.

 

[niceshootintex]

OK, that's 0.35% (6 out of 1700) of gun owners that collect SS... a very small minority, and extrapolating that the +65 crowd represent 29% of gun owners (Ringo's source), then Trump has actually help about [SUP]1[/SUP]/[SUB]10[/SUB] of 1%. Great for those people, and I still stand by my original statement the only real action Trump has taken affects only a very small portion of gun owners. Actually a smaller number than I guess-ta-mated when I made my original statement.

What are you talking about XD? That's 6 out of 1700 at the gun cub I belong to. I wouldn't extrapolate data from my number or Ringo's for that matter. Suffice it to say that if it were only ten people then it would be wrong in my mind.

Look at my posts. I don't say anything about Trump being some kind of 2A savior anywhere. As a matter of fact, I'm personally greatly disappointed by the misguided support that pending legislation receives from the current leadership and it's lack of action on any real change. My only point was that the legislation that removed the SS restrictions that you brought up was valid and that the grab of SS recipients rights was shameful. I think we are actually agreeing if you think that Trump has not done enough and that Obama was way out over his skis in this instance. The idea of a quid pro quo "your guns or your SS check" was a vile thing to do.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Whatever..........

 

[niceshootintex]

Whatever..........

I know that sometimes you're coherent enough, despite your leftist leanings, and you speak to truth on those occasions. It appears I caught you after a whopper NYE celebration you're trying to recover from. This too shall come to pass[emoji57].

 

[XD40scinNC]

I know that sometimes you're coherent enough, despite your leftist leanings, and you speak to truth on those occasions. It appears I caught you after a whopper NYE celebration you're trying to recover from. This too shall come to pass[emoji57].

You seemed to take exception to my view that Trump's only "action" effected only a small number of gun owners. I submitted figures to showed it is a very small number (0.1%) so I standby my original statement......

But you didn't die in a plane crash year, so you can thank him for that.... after all he did take credit in a tweet today.

 

[niceshootintex]

You seemed to take exception to my view that Trump's only "action" effected only a small number of gun owners. I submitted figures to showed it is a very small number (0.1%) so I standby my original statement......

But you didn't die in a plane crash year, so you can thank him for that.... after all he did take credit in a tweet today.

I take exception if it affects ANY gun owner so yes, on that particular issue I'm glad Trump rescinded a BO diktat that affected a very vulnerable population that would have had their rights taken away. And yes, when American citizens are cavalier about another group of American citizens losing their right to bear arms, I take exception. You are spot on.

It always starts small and then there are more and more groups any time people aren't paying attention. I should have known you'd shift to some unrelated tweet about airplanes or some BS. I actually don't get caught up in the chaff and wake churn of the daily political noise. I'm not posting pro or anti Trump propaganda or "the candidate" or BO venting on a daily or even weekly basis on here either. But I know more than a handful that do. If the saddle fits.....

 

[SummerB]

List means nothing for us unfortunate enough to live in california. . . :sad::sad:

 

[kramden]

(Research-2013)
Link Removed​

Interesting.

 

[S&W645]

List means nothing for us unfortunate enough to live in california. . . :sad::sad:

That is Commiefornia now. California died a long time ago.

 

[BluesStringer]

List means nothing for us unfortunate enough to live in california. . . :sad::sad:

That is Commiefornia now. California died a long time ago.

However, they still have not built a wall to keep the slaves in. Anyone can still leave anytime they want. I left 26 years ago and have never regretted it for a nanosecond. Feeding the beast is no way to defeat the beast. The beast must starve to death, which means depriving it of its natural sustenance - its own citizens' earnings first, and their liberties second. Get out while you still can, SummerB. No matter what excuse you can come up with for staying, it boils down to you volunteering for your own enslavement. Oh, and my recommendation is to go East, not North. OR and WA have been fully Californicated with regards to gun rights already. The Pacific Ocean simply doesn't make up for the loss of liberty one must accept in order to live on or near its shores.

Blues

 

[niceshootintex]

However, they still have not built a wall to keep the slaves in. Anyone can still leave anytime they want. I left 26 years ago and have never regretted it for a nanosecond. Feeding the beast is no way to defeat the beast. The beast must starve to death, which means depriving it of its natural sustenance - its own citizens' earnings first, and their liberties second. Get out while you still can, SummerB. No matter what excuse you can come up with for staying, it boils down to you volunteering for your own enslavement. Oh, and my recommendation is to go East, not North. OR and WA have been fully Californicated with regards to gun rights already. The Pacific Ocean simply doesn't make up for the loss of liberty one must accept in order to live on or near its shores.

Blues

It was always a bit eccentric when I first moved there in the 80's but in a quirky, good way. We went 4 wheeling on public lands, shot firearms in the desert, rode our motorcycles, and had our own political positions without fear of being labelled as a Nazi.....man, that state had so much going for it. It was always expensive but it didn't get too bad until the early 1990's when the immigration flow got off the charts and they (LA county and SF) decided that the taxpayers would pay the freight. California is actually moderate to conservative outside those two hellholes.

I had tons of Mexican friends then and I remain friends with them to this day. Most were legal or green card holders and were a generation or more inside the state. The migrant workers came up from Mexico and made their living seasonally in agriculture and landscaping mostly, they went back to Mexico and lived, and came and went. The violent and oppressive nature of the Mexican government and the drug cartels drove these folks to move themselves and their families North to the US. Unfortunately, the drug cartels and criminals came along with them in large numbers based on America's appetite for drugs.

That state is doomed. I was there last year and the wage earners and tax payers, regardless of descent, are like rats abandoning a sinking ship. Anecdotally, my family and friends, young and old, are retiring early or plain getting out. They are migrating to states like Idaho, Utah, Texas, Nevada, and Arizona where they can find reasonably priced housing, a much better tax climate, and strong economies.

What once was a great state is now a social justice warrior playground immersed in poverty (look it up) and ruled by the 1% with their serfs and vassals (legal or illegal) firmly entrenched. The California that once was is gone and absent a miracle of reality realized, they are not coming back. Play Taps.

 

[BluesStringer]

It was always a bit eccentric when I first moved there in the 80's but in a quirky, good way. We went 4 wheeling on public lands, shot firearms in the desert, rode our motorcycles, and had our own political positions without fear of being labelled as a Nazi.....man, that state had so much going for it. It was always expensive but it didn't get too bad until the early 1990's when the immigration flow got off the charts and they (LA county and SF) decided that the taxpayers would pay the freight. California is actually moderate to conservative outside those two hellholes.

I had tons of Mexican friends then and I remain friends with them to this day. Most were legal or green card holders and were a generation or more inside the state. The migrant workers came up from Mexico and made their living seasonally in agriculture and landscaping mostly, they went back to Mexico and lived, and came and went. The violent and oppressive nature of the Mexican government and the drug cartels drove these folks to move themselves and their families North to the US. Unfortunately, the drug cartels and criminals came along with them in large numbers based on America's appetite for drugs.

That state is doomed. I was there last year and the wage earners and tax payers, regardless of descent, are like rats abandoning a sinking ship. Anecdotally, my family and friends, young and old, are retiring early or plain getting out. They are migrating to states like Idaho, Utah, Texas, Nevada, and Arizona where they can find reasonably priced housing, a much better tax climate, and strong economies.

What once was a great state is now a social justice warrior playground immersed in poverty (look it up) and ruled by the 1% with their serfs and vassals (legal or illegal) firmly entrenched. The California that once was is gone and absent a miracle of reality realized, they are not coming back. Play Taps.

For me, immigration has next to nothing to do with the reasons we left. I grew up in the same house with the same circle of neighborhood friends that I went to high school with. From Kindergarten on through to high school, my circle of friends included surnames like Manarez, Rios, Garcia, Gonzalez, Espinosa, Chavez and Campos, plus lots more. Of the friends whose families stayed in that neighborhood, probably 90% or better were born here, or came at a very early age. I can't speak knowledgeably about the rest of SoCal, but it would surprise me greatly to find that the situation was any different from where I grew up in the South Bay, in that as a white kid, I never saw a day of school where we were much of a majority. At most, whites were maybe 60%, while Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, made up the lion's share of the other 40%. I never shared a class with a black kid until high school, but never attended a class where there weren't almost as many brown kids as white.

For me/us (I think I can speak for my wife in this instance, but still don't tell her I did it! HA!), the reasons we left in '92 were very nearly all political/government-protesting in nature. The Rodney King Riots had just finished, the helmet law had just begun, and the handful of Second Amendment successes we'd earned in the late '70s/early '80s had all disappeared as gun control after gun control was instituted on what seemed like a weekly basis. We could still go out to Mojave to shoot, and as far as I knew, we could've ridden dirt bikes out there too if I had still been into that, but the writing was on the wall that all of those kinds of things were about to change. I got out before I had to register my guns, but not before taxes of many varying descriptions drowned our ability to earn a good living. Just as an example, when we moved I had a '91 Softail FXSTC that cost over $600 bucks to register for a year. Imagine how hard my jaw hit the floor when I went to register it in Alabama, and the lady behind the counter said, "I'll need two checks from you today. The first one is for your "tags" (we always called them license plates in Cali) for $22.50. The second one is your Title transfer fee for $23.00 even." The cages we brought with us were very close to the same ratio reduction for registration. Everything here is unbelievably cheaper than in CA. No riots. Very little gun control beyond what the fed imposes. I even started a small collection of auto-opening knives once I realized they were not regulated at all here, whereas, they were completely outlawed in Cali. There's still Mexicans here. I speak just enough Spanish to get a giggle out of 'em when I still fail to be able to converse with 'em, but I got no problem with 'em at all. I have always been able to fairly easily distinguish between the perpetrators and the victims of any large-scale criminal enterprise, and it is my considered belief that the government that has failed to control the border is where you find the most criminals, while the migrant workers and American citizens pretty much equally share the victim status.

Anyway, there ya go. Just a short little bit of conversatin' a'fore supper-time. Wonder if we scared SummerB off? Hope not. LOL

Blues

 

[niceshootintex]

For me, immigration has next to nothing to do with the reasons we left. I grew up in the same house with the same circle of neighborhood friends that I went to high school with. From Kindergarten on through to high school, my circle of friends included surnames like Manarez, Rios, Garcia, Gonzalez, Espinosa, Chavez and Campos, plus lots more. Of the friends whose families stayed in that neighborhood, probably 90% or better were born here, or came at a very early age. I can't speak knowledgeably about the rest of SoCal, but it would surprise me greatly to find that the situation was any different from where I grew up in the South Bay, in that as a white kid, I never saw a day of school where we were much of a majority. At most, whites were maybe 60%, while Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, made up the lion's share of the other 40%. I never shared a class with a black kid until high school, but never attended a class where there weren't almost as many brown kids as white.

For me/us (I think I can speak for my wife in this instance, but still don't tell her I did it! HA!), the reasons we left in '92 were very nearly all political/government-protesting in nature. The Rodney King Riots had just finished, the helmet law had just begun, and the handful of Second Amendment successes we'd earned in the late '70s/early '80s had all disappeared as gun control after gun control was instituted on what seemed like a weekly basis. We could still go out to Mojave to shoot, and as far as I knew, we could've ridden dirt bikes out there too if I had still been into that, but the writing was on the wall that all of those kinds of things were about to change. I got out before I had to register my guns, but not before taxes of many varying descriptions drowned our ability to earn a good living. Just as an example, when we moved I had a '91 Softail FXSTC that cost over $600 bucks to register for a year. Imagine how hard my jaw hit the floor when I went to register it in Alabama, and the lady behind the counter said, "I'll need two checks from you today. The first one is for your "tags" (we always called them license plates in Cali) for $22.50. The second one is your Title transfer fee for $23.00 even." The cages we brought with us were very close to the same ratio reduction for registration. Everything here is unbelievably cheaper than in CA. No riots. Very little gun control beyond what the fed imposes. I even started a small collection of auto-opening knives once I realized they were not regulated at all here, whereas, they were completely outlawed in Cali. There's still Mexicans here. I speak just enough Spanish to get a giggle out of 'em when I still fail to be able to converse with 'em, but I got no problem with 'em at all. I have always been able to fairly easily distinguish between the perpetrators and the victims of any large-scale criminal enterprise, and it is my considered belief that the government that has failed to control the border is where you find the most criminals, while the migrant workers and American citizens pretty much equally share the victim status.

Anyway, there ya go. Just a short little bit of conversatin' a'fore supper-time. Wonder if we scared SummerB off? Hope not. LOL

Blues

I didn't leave because of immigration and actually left for family medical issues. California was plenty integrated with persons of Mexican heritage when I was there but the majority of those that I knew were first, second, or even third generation legal citizens. The landscapers and contractor guys who hung out looking for work at Home Depot and that I used to drink beer with at various watering holes were likely here illegally but wasn't asking. Not my job and they were generally pretty solid anyway.

People are leaving for the primary reasons of cost of living, buying an affordable home, and taxes. Every single item or service that the CFTB can touch they do. As an example, gasoline is over $3.15 a gallon there and the first .50 +cent of every gallon of gasoline that you purchase is excise and state tax. Commuting is a fact of life for most people there and the average annual fuel TAX cost is $720. Not fuel itself, but the tax on it.

These high taxes are symptoms and not the root cause. CA has had to constantly raise taxes on the taxpayers because they have an enormous population of non citizens that are bleeding their services and social support networks dry. Their personal income tax is at 13.3% and is 3.4% higher than the closest high state tax which is Oregon. It is unsustainable.

I think the reasons you left were personal ones and legitimate. I honestly believe I would have been gone anyway beyond the circumstances that I ended up leaving for but I'll never know. I'd like to believe that I would have left my previous job to evacuate. We enjoy visiting there still and we have to be there for a week this coming year so I'll get my Cali fix and we aren't actually permanently retirement landed yet but will be in the next few years.

My hunch is that SummerB is painfully aware that leaving CA would be tough depending on your attachments but the alternative is nearly at the point of a Dystopian prelude.

 

[niceshootintex]

For me, immigration has next to nothing to do with the reasons we left. I grew up in the same house with the same circle of neighborhood friends that I went to high school with. From Kindergarten on through to high school, my circle of friends included surnames like Manarez, Rios, Garcia, Gonzalez, Espinosa, Chavez and Campos, plus lots more. Of the friends whose families stayed in that neighborhood, probably 90% or better were born here, or came at a very early age. I can't speak knowledgeably about the rest of SoCal, but it would surprise me greatly to find that the situation was any different from where I grew up in the South Bay, in that as a white kid, I never saw a day of school where we were much of a majority. At most, whites were maybe 60%, while Hispanics, mostly Mexicans, made up the lion's share of the other 40%. I never shared a class with a black kid until high school, but never attended a class where there weren't almost as many brown kids as white.

For me/us (I think I can speak for my wife in this instance, but still don't tell her I did it! HA!), the reasons we left in '92 were very nearly all political/government-protesting in nature. The Rodney King Riots had just finished, the helmet law had just begun, and the handful of Second Amendment successes we'd earned in the late '70s/early '80s had all disappeared as gun control after gun control was instituted on what seemed like a weekly basis. We could still go out to Mojave to shoot, and as far as I knew, we could've ridden dirt bikes out there too if I had still been into that, but the writing was on the wall that all of those kinds of things were about to change. I got out before I had to register my guns, but not before taxes of many varying descriptions drowned our ability to earn a good living. Just as an example, when we moved I had a '91 Softail FXSTC that cost over $600 bucks to register for a year. Imagine how hard my jaw hit the floor when I went to register it in Alabama, and the lady behind the counter said, "I'll need two checks from you today. The first one is for your "tags" (we always called them license plates in Cali) for $22.50. The second one is your Title transfer fee for $23.00 even." The cages we brought with us were very close to the same ratio reduction for registration. Everything here is unbelievably cheaper than in CA. No riots. Very little gun control beyond what the fed imposes. I even started a small collection of auto-opening knives once I realized they were not regulated at all here, whereas, they were completely outlawed in Cali. There's still Mexicans here. I speak just enough Spanish to get a giggle out of 'em when I still fail to be able to converse with 'em, but I got no problem with 'em at all. I have always been able to fairly easily distinguish between the perpetrators and the victims of any large-scale criminal enterprise, and it is my considered belief that the government that has failed to control the border is where you find the most criminals, while the migrant workers and American citizens pretty much equally share the victim status.

Anyway, there ya go. Just a short little bit of conversatin' a'fore supper-time. Wonder if we scared SummerB off? Hope not. LOL

Blues

Related to earlier discussion on the state of affairs inside the formerly Great State of California.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/whats-matter-california/