Police State?

[Firefighterchen]

Who's chickenfinger? Is that the new burger King meal?

 

[BluesStringer]

Blues,
I noticed you included DE in you list of draconian gun laws states. I live in Delaware and have had a CCP for quite a few years. We are also a open carry state. I don't think we would in anyway be as bad as MD. who has a next to impossible to get CCP system, and don't accept any other states permit.

So MD is the only standard that matters? "Not as bad as MD" disqualifies DE from having it said that your laws represent draconian restrictions on how, where, when or if a person can exercise his/her God-given, natural and unalienable rights?

I have to wonder if you even understand the word "draconian." Here are a few synonyms from Thesaurus.com in case you don't: cruel, drastic, severe, heavy-handed, oppressive, strict, exorbitant, extreme. That's not all of them, and not every one necessarily applies directly, but there is certainly a rational indirect route to every word in the list without stretching the line beyond recognition. The only draconian thing I have to do in Alabama that's on your list of "acceptable" infringements on your rights is get a NICS (background) check, and I know you hate that some states "allow" that much freedom to still exist, but even at that, there are still a plethora of laws on the books here that fit any one of those synonyms, and none of them are acceptable to anyone who believes in the Constitution and Bill of Rights as-written as the overwhelming majority of 2A advocates do.

Let's take the "fair processes" in your state one at a time....

I DE (although a may issue state) you have to take an NRA approved course

Another truthful way to put that is, "You have to pay money directly to someone who supports the N R A, and indirectly to the N R A itself, even if you believe that the N R A is an organization that works tirelessly against your own best interests. My my, how supportive of the right to (or not) associate with whomever one pleases, eh?

Hardly seems...umm..."fair" does it?

get prints

Like a common criminal.

and criminal back ground check

Because, as everybody knows, exercising your rights is tantamount to establishing probable cause for law enforcement to initiate a criminal investigation of you! Good grief, do you ever just read what you write and try to hear it with an objective mindset?

put an ad in a local paper announcing application

In other words, another payment to third party non-governmental organizations who will use their 1st Amendment protections to support the government in infringing on your 2nd Amendment rights, while at the same time invading your privacy! What a country, eh?

get letters of good character reference from 5 people in your county.

Having just moved here, I don't even know five people in my county! I'd literally have to be like a panhandler/petition drive volunteer searching for strangers to vouch for my good character! Even when I lived further on up the road for 14 years, all our friends were out of county, some of them out of state.

If this isn't an exorbitant, extreme, drastic, severe, oppressive and/or heavy-handed requirement for someone to be able to exercise their God-given rights, then nothing would be considered by you to be.

From a safety point of view, I consider these a fair process, hardly draconian.

And I consider you to be anti-Second-Amendment. From a 2nd-Amendment-safety point of view, thinking like yours should disqualify all who think it from spewing such anti-2A garbage on pro-2A sites. Far from being supportive of the Framers' Constitution and Bill of Rights, thinking like yours borders on sedition, and the law-makers, governors and judges/justices who write, sign and uphold the kinds of laws that you drool over, are full-blown seditionists who should all be charged, tried and suffer whatever the most extreme penalty is afforded We, The People for their crimes.

Blues

 

[bowserb]

There are free states, no freedom states, and all between. For a start, "shall issue" is a minimum standard. If someone can decide you do not need the CCW license, that is bad, so may issue is a major strike against DE. I do not object to required training, as I did for a drivers and motorcycle licenses, or background check (so that we can state that CCW holders are better than the general population). But ad in the paper for burglars to see you have guns, and letters of reference from five people? Holy crap! That is harsh at best. If you sure willing to do all that, kudos to you, but DE still qualifies as anti gun. It may not be New Jersey, but it is a long way from Arizona. Oh, and no reciprocity is a negative that means DE gets none of my vacation spending. Thank goodness the Gulf coast and heartland (mostly) are OK with the Texas CHL.


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[Firefighterchen]

Required training is just as bad as required newspaper ads.

Ccw holder's in states with no requirement are doing just as good, if not better, as those in states that require it.

 

[S&W645]

Blues,
I noticed you included DE in you list of draconian gun laws states. I live in Delaware and have had a CCP for quite a few years. We are also a open carry state. I don't think we would in anyway be as bad as MD. who has a next to impossible to get CCP system, and don't accept any other states permit.
I DE (although a may issue state) you have to take an NRA approved course, get prints and criminal back ground check, put an ad in a local paper announcing application, get letters of good character reference from 5 people in your county. From a safety point of view, I consider these a fair process, hardly draconian.

In what state would the red ones ever be reasonable? Sure not any in the US.

 

[S&W645]

And by the way, we are not the only ones to have noticed the militarized police state. 0bama has asked that all further turning over to police of MRAPs and the like and certain weapons be stopped. And to look into ways of taking them back. That is pretty damning evidence that we are there.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Blues,
I noticed you included DE in you list of draconian gun laws states. I live in Delaware and have had a CCP for quite a few years. We are also a open carry state. I don't think we would in anyway be as bad as MD. who has a next to impossible to get CCP system, and don't accept any other states permit.
I DE (although a may issue state) you have to take an NRA approved course, get prints and criminal back ground check, put an ad in a local paper announcing application, get letters of good character reference from 5 people in your county. From a safety point of view, I consider these a fair process, hardly draconian.

WOW! just effin WOW, that is fricking over the top outrageous. I won't argue the course/demonstrating competency handling and shooting a handgun, but how the hell does a newspaper ad contribute to safety?

Publication of your intent:
You must publish your full name, your home address and indicate your intent to make application for a Delaware CCW Permit in a newspaper, published in your county that has a circulation of at least 35% percent of the population in your ZIP code. This must run at least (10) days before filling of your application with the Court. Make sure that you obtain an affidavit from the newspaper company stating that this requirement has been met. The News Journal charges $73 to post this legal notice. If you live in the 19720 Zip Code the New Castle Weekly will post your CCW for $10.00. Also check into other Local weekly news papers some of these will also qualify and are significantly cheaper then the News Journal.

A sample:

LEGAL NOTICE
RE: DEADLY WEAPON
I, <full name>. residing at <address including ZIP Code> will make application to the judges of the superior court of the State of Delaware in and for New Castle County at Wilmington for the next term for a license to carry a concealed deadly weapon, or weapons, for the protection of my person(s), or property, or both.

<full name>
<date>

In most states the fact you have a permit is private and accessible ONLY to law enforcement agencies. My state has passed laws recently to ensure no one in the public or media can obtain a list of permit holders.

OBTW, yea, that is a draconian process.

 

[bowserb]

And by the way, we are not the only ones to have noticed the militarized police state. 0bama has asked that all further turning over to police of MRAPs and the like and certain weapons be stopped. And to look into ways of taking them back. That is pretty damning evidence that we are there.

And in the next breath, he is creating a "network" of community organizers whose activities will be funded by the federal government (aka American taxpayers). It's all falling into place as long as no one notices and raises the alarm.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Required training is just as bad as required newspaper ads.

Ccw holder's in states with no requirement are doing just as good, if not better, as those in states that require it.

You, of course, have statistics to support this supposition?

 

[Axeanda45]

You, of course, have statistics to support this supposition?

Do YOU have ANYTHING that refutes it? I have seen ZERO accounts of those living in states with little or no requirements being any more dangerous or safer than those that live in states that have strict training requirements/infringements......

 

[XD40scinNC]

Do YOU have ANYTHING that refutes it? I have seen ZERO accounts of those living in states with little or no requirements being any more dangerous or safer than those that live in states that have strict training requirements/infringements......

FF made the assertion, and it boils down to "is this indeed a fact, or just some opinion of his".

That defines a whole lot of the problems in this country, when an anti-gunnut spews their "opinion" that no one needs own a gun, do you just blindly accept that as fact? Of course not, and in the same light I do not accept FF's assertion blindly, but if he has statistics to support his assertion, then I'll listen.

As Joe Friday used to say, "just the facts ma'am, just the facts".

 

[NavyLCDR]

Blues,
I noticed you included DE in you list of draconian gun laws states. I live in Delaware and have had a CCP for quite a few years. We are also a open carry state. I don't think we would in anyway be as bad as MD. who has a next to impossible to get CCP system, and don't accept any other states permit.
I DE (although a may issue state) you have to take an NRA approved course, get prints and criminal back ground check, put an ad in a local paper announcing application, get letters of good character reference from 5 people in your county. From a safety point of view, I consider these a fair process, hardly draconian.

Would you consider those requirements a fair process to attend the church of your choice? How about to post on the internet? Or, best of all, how about having to do all of that to in order to be granted 4th Amendment protection against the police being authorized to enter your house/car any time they chose...you know, for a "safety" check? KNOCK, KNOCK, "This is the police, show us your 4th Amendment permit or we are coming in to search your house for 'safety' violations, because you are dangerous until your neighbors say that you aren't and the government agrees with them!"

So, why is it a fair process to exercise 2nd Amendment rights - you know, the single one with the "shall not be infringed" clause in it? And then you actually have the hutzpah to claim to be a conservative Republican. But, I guess that is why we need the Tea Party - because not too many Republicans support the Constitution any more either.