PA CCW and carrying while in a bar

[Scrounger]

The current law in PA states only schools and a casino are off limits but during a recent trip to the range, I overheard an instructor saying that carrying in a bar is illegal. I dont think this is true. Has this changed?

Regards,

Matthew

 

[wolf_fire]

You may carry in a bar in PA.

I would personally consider that choice if you plan on drinking. Yes, most responsible people can handle their alcohol, but should you need to use your firearm and there is alcohol on your breath, you will make things a lot more difficult on yourself.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

 

[longslide10]

From the Pennsylvania General Assembly. Nothing against carrying in a bar.

Title 18 - PA General Assembly

 

[NavyLCDR]

The current law in PA states only schools and a casino are off limits but during a recent trip to the range, I overheard an instructor saying that carrying in a bar is illegal. I dont think this is true. Has this changed?

Regards,

Matthew

I can tell you what has stayed the same: the three biggest sources of misinformation regarding firearms law continue to prove themselves to be CCW Instructors, gun store employees and law enforcement officers... in no particular order.

 

[chilipeppernorm]

Well, there's bars and then there's bars. Big difference between the bar at the Four Seasons and Billy Bob's Buttcrack Biker Beer Palace. Trouble can be had anywhere, so I never let alcohol pass my lips if I'm carrying a weapon. I believe there is enough prejudice within the legal system against a law abiding citizen using a weapon to defend himself, family, or the innocent without having your defense lawyer having to convince the jury that the alcohol or drugs in your system in no way impaired your judgement and the outcome on the deceased (who is now the victim). Way too much to lose.

 

[Karl der Grosse]

Well, there's bars and then there's bars. Big difference between the bar at the Four Seasons and Billy Bob's Buttcrack Biker Beer Palace. Trouble can be had anywhere, so I never let alcohol pass my lips if I'm carrying a weapon. I believe there is enough prejudice within the legal system against a law abiding citizen using a weapon to defend himself, family, or the innocent without having your defense lawyer having to convince the jury that the alcohol or drugs in your system in no way impaired your judgement and the outcome on the deceased (who is now the victim). Way too much to lose.

Here in Ohio we just recently regained the ability to carry in an establishment where alcohol is consumed - as long as the carrier does not drink. This makes a world of sense to me, as chilipeppernorm has said above.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Where are the examples where alcohol was used by the prosecution in a self-defense case? For example, it is perfectly legal in Washington state for me to have a beer with dinner and get in my car and drive home. While 99% of the time there is no need for me to drive home because my wife and/or daughter are usually with me - I certainly won't hesitate to have a beer with dinner while carrying my firearm as I normally do.

 

[chilipeppernorm]

Where are the examples where alcohol was used by the prosecution in a self-defense case? For example, it is perfectly legal in Washington state for me to have a beer with dinner and get in my car and drive home. While 99% of the time there is no need for me to drive home because my wife and/or daughter are usually with me - I certainly won't hesitate to have a beer with dinner while carrying my firearm as I normally do.

Navy, it was not my intent to take a prudish stance on responsible alcohol use and driving, carrying your legally owned weapon, operating a boat, motorcycle, or any other ordinary civic activity. I have no need to cite case law to express nor justify a clearly delineated personal opinion on my own decision to not intake alcohol while carrying a weapon as it pertains to me and me only. I was merely stating what I do and my personal reason for doing it, and thought that was clear in plain English. To be fair, I could have stated "Way too much to lose, "FOR ME", and did not do so nor see the need. So, let me be clear, I don't drink any alcohol or take any drugs when I carry for personal reasons, but fully respect the decisions and choices of all my fellow forum members as made by themselves in accepting full responsibility for their actions. Not picking a fight, just clarifying, God Bless.

 

[apvbguy]

The current law in PA states only schools and a casino are off limits but during a recent trip to the range, I overheard an instructor saying that carrying in a bar is illegal. I dont think this is true. Has this changed?

Regards,

Matthew

instructors can be some of the worst places for obtaining legal advice, would you ask your auto mechanic about your heart condition? if you want legal advice ask an attorney who is well versed in that field of law

 

[apvbguy]

Here in Ohio we just recently regained the ability to carry in an establishment where alcohol is consumed - as long as the carrier does not drink. This makes a world of sense to me, as chilipeppernorm has said above.

why does it make a lot of sense? are you one of those people who are incapable of drinking alcoholic beverages in a responsible manner? if yes, that is a shame! but please do not force your issues upon the majority of people who are capable of drinking adult beverages without becoming stumbling, drunken fools

Well, there's bars and then there's bars. Big difference between the bar at the Four Seasons and Billy Bob's Buttcrack Biker Beer Palace. Trouble can be had anywhere, so I never let alcohol pass my lips if I'm carrying a weapon. I believe there is enough prejudice within the legal system against a law abiding citizen using a weapon to defend himself, family, or the innocent without having your defense lawyer having to convince the jury that the alcohol or drugs in your system in no way impaired your judgement and the outcome on the deceased (who is now the victim). Way too much to lose.

see response above

 

[apvbguy]

You may carry in a bar in PA.

I would personally consider that choice if you plan on drinking. Yes, most responsible people can handle their alcohol, but should you need to use your firearm and there is alcohol on your breath, you will make things a lot more difficult on yourself.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

how so? please tell me one case where impairment from alcohol became the reason for someone to have their right to self defense diminished

 

[gfrlaser]

how so? please tell me one case where impairment from alcohol became the reason for someone to have their right to self defense diminished

Right to self defense may not be diminished however, the choices made leading up to an act of firing a weapon will certainly have bearing on any case you are forced to defend in court. Additionally, past actions and history while drinking will be open to scrutiny. I can see where that could have a huge impact on a case.

 

[BC1]

Right to self defense may not be diminished however, the choices made leading up to an act of firing a weapon will certainly have bearing on any case you are forced to defend in court. Additionally, past actions and history while drinking will be open to scrutiny. I can see where that could have a huge impact on a case.

in some states a CCW will be revoked if you're found to be carrying while intoxicated. And there's always the reckless charges.

 

[apvbguy]

Right to self defense may not be diminished however, the choices made leading up to an act of firing a weapon will certainly have bearing on any case you are forced to defend in court. Additionally, past actions and history while drinking will be open to scrutiny. I can see where that could have a huge impact on a case.

is that so?? can you cite any cases where the fact that someone consumed alcohol was part of a trial?

 

[apvbguy]

in some states a CCW will be revoked if you're found to be carrying while intoxicated. And there's always the reckless charges.

that could be true, but 1. there is a long way between having a drink and being intoxicated and 2. it isn't true for any of the states that I carry concealed in

 

[BC1]

that could be true, but 1. there is a long way between having a drink and being intoxicated and 2. it isn't true for any of the states that I carry concealed in

Same in NY. you can carry it and even consume alcohol but you don't want to be drunk.

 

[apvbguy]

Same in NY. you can carry it and even consume alcohol but you don't want to be drunk.

why do you not want to be drunk? in fla there is nothing in the law regarding when you are too impaired to be carrying or even using a weapon

 

[BC1]

why do you not want to be drunk? in fla there is nothing in the law regarding when you are too impaired to be carrying or even using a weapon

You no looka too hard... In public? Drunk? Armed? It's charged as a second degree misdemeanor I believe. Probably just a fine but an arrest record nonetheless.
.
790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.—
(1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.

 

[wolf_fire]

how so? please tell me one case where impairment from alcohol became the reason for someone to have their right to self defense diminished

Read my post, did I make any claim to a court case or that this is the difficulty you will go through?

Here are some of the statistics of alcohol impairment from just one drink. You make your own conclusions after having a drink or two and using your handgun in what may/may not be a justifiable shooting. http://www.jrussellshealth.org/alceffct.html

In addition, if any cop smells alcohol on you and you've just fired a weapon, you will get your BAC checked and now there will be a record of it for the lawyers to use as they deem fit. Looking at the statistics of what certain levels of BAC can do to a person (lower inhibitions, make one react more to self-defense, etc.), it's not a stretch in the least to think that a lawyer may use it in court.

Also, through a quick and dirty search (I'm not a lawyer and not going to review every law case involving a firearm for possible justifiable defense), the use of alcohol has been used as a means to disregard a person's claim to self-defense in court. If they can use it to disregard a claim to self-defense in using fists and head butting, are you saying it couldn't be used against you when using a firearm?

Link Removed

The same question in reverse could be asked of you. Do you know for a fact, that the use of alcohol has never been used against a person claiming self-defense?

 

[kwc]

why do you not want to be drunk? in fla there is nothing in the law regarding when you are too impaired to be carrying or even using a weapon

Aside from the legal risks of carrying while drunk, why would any responsible citizen want to risk compromising their own judgement and skill, and end up hurting or killing another human being without justifiable cause? Wouldn't that weigh heavily on your conscience?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.