Open carry event in Massachusetts

[Deserteagle]

I would NOT recommend Rich_S for a guest speaker...

I have no idea where you and Rich_S disagree, but these personal attacks are getting excessive. Put your vengeance aside and stick to the topic of a thread without attacking people that haven't even posted in it.

Im looking for my fellow gun owners to step up and do a open carry event here in Mass. We can start with this nationwide event that Starbucks coffee is doing, yes i said Starbucks. Its going on 2/14/2012, yeah its Valentines day so what take your partner out for some coffee and show your support not only for Starbucks but for all of us Gun owners.

I will definitely be attending Starbucks on that day. I'll be going concealed but I'll give them my support that day when the libs try to boycott.

 

[Phillip Gain]

It's not his place to "Go for it". This is the problem and why OC in MA is such a problem. If you gonna ASK for permission than put your LTC through the shredder and call it a day.....you lost. No question it should be a green town you do it in, but if your gonna do it, do it.

The object of an event like this is to create awareness. "Hey, what we're doing is perfectly legal. See, we even have nice police officers here supporting us."

It would be good to create POSITIVE awareness, as opposed to risking provoking a confrontation with Westborough Police.

Hypothetically - let's say we did not notify anyone. As one of us is heading into the Starbucks, there is ONE freaked out person calling 911. "Help! I saw a guy with a gun at the Starbucks on Rt 9 as I was about to go in for coffee!! I was scared out of my mind, and drove off, then called you!!!"

How do you think Westborough PD is going to respond? My guess would be all units, strobes and sirens, guns drawn.

Eventually of course, it would be sorted out. Charges would be dropped, but LTC's would be yanked, because Massachusetts is a "may issue" state. So those of us with the yanked LTCs would now have to pay to store or otherwise dispose of or transfer our handguns since the LTC is required to own them. We might, if lucky, get issued a highly restricted LTC or just a basic FID. After spending thousands on litigation.

Oh, and let's not forget the largely Democratic legislature, who in a panic after the "ARMED DEMONSTRATION AT WESTBOROUGH STARBUCKS" would now draft a new state law prohibiting the open carry of firearms.

So yeah. Let's just march ourselves armed into Starbucks, and not tell anyone ahead of time what we're planning to do. GREAT idea. You lead the way, hotshot. Bring NavyLCDR with you. He'll be a great help.

 

[Phillip Gain]

Link Removed

You resemble that meme nicely.

Does this mean you won't be joining us for coffee? :cray:

 

[Phillip Gain]

Hypothetically - let's say we did not notify anyone. As one of us is heading into the Starbucks, there is ONE freaked out person calling 911. "Help! I saw a guy with a gun at the Starbucks on Rt 9 as I was about to go in for coffee!! I was scared out of my mind, and drove off, then called you!!!"

How do you think Westborough PD is going to respond? My guess would be all units, strobes and sirens, guns drawn.

As a followup to this...let's look at some alternative scenarios, some of which would only be possible in "free" states:

1) The customer isn't scared at all, because he or she understands that open carry is legal, and that the person carrying the gun is not a danger. This would be the ideal response. This is what we eventually hope to achieve.

2) The scared customer makes the aforementioned 911 call. The dispatcher asks "What was the man with the gun doing?" If the reply is "Nothing...it was in a holster on his belt." - then nothing happens. At worst, a patrol car is diverted to check things out and make sure the Starbuck's isn't being robbed, then goes on its merry way. I think this is a more likely scenario. While not ideal, it's better than a lot of possibilities.

3) The scared customer makes the aforementioned 911 call. Westborough PD has been notified of the event. Upon ascertaining from the caller that nothing like a robbery is going on, the operator advises the caller that no laws are being broken...and again, nothing happens. I think this is wishful thinking at this point, though. Westborough PD, under current laws, would be concerned that "anarchists" or otherwise improperly licensed individuals with guns would try to get themselves involved in the event. They would want to avoid this sort of thing, which leads us to #4:

4) The scared customer makes the aforementioned 911 call. Since Westborough PD was notified...they have an officer or two hang out at the Starbuck's checking LTC's and having coffee. If unarmed customers complain, officers advise them that no laws are being broken and that they are not in any danger...and again, nothing happens. I think this is a reasonable expectation of how the first open carry event in Massachusetts would go.

Also - the presence of a couple police officers might just be enough reassurance for the general public that no 911 calls would be made. Which of course frees up just that much of an operator's time for a genuine emergency, should there be one.

I'm open to entertaining discussion on this, from Massachusetts folks who are genuinely interested, and who will respond with thoughtful opinion rather than confrontational bravado.

 

[Flashlight22]

We all know this is a huge grey area we are talking about. The only way to find out is to try it both ways just go out and do it or inform the local police chief. No matter which way we go about doing this the police are going to know some way.

 

[Phillip Gain]

No matter which way we go about doing this the police are going to know some way.

Yes, I think you just hit it on the head, there.

Maybe hold off informing them until just a few days ahead of time? Or maybe 24 hours?

Anyone know of an attorney (preferably with a LTC) who would join us?

 

[Treo]

My Good God I am so glad I live in a Free State

 

[Phillip Gain]

I eventually want to move back south. But while I'm here...

 

[drottman]

I know what I'm going to say may upset some people so let me preface it by saying that I am a long time NRA member, am a strong believer in our second amendment rights, have more guns then I need (if that's possible),and have had a concealed weapons permit for a number of years. That said, I would like to express my quick view on doing open carry demos (ie Starbucks in CA). I believe that when you force an issue, like this one, it has a tendency to alienate those "fence sitters" and pushes them in the wrong direction. Don't kick the sleeping dog, he will awaken and may bit you on the butt.

 

[6shootercarry]

The laws create fear... Fear prevents people from doing things or causes them to hesitate... The legislators have used the laws to induce fear and control behavior... Having my permit revoked for doing what the permit permits me to do is right how?

So perhaps testing the waters is what is needed... This issue will never be resolved. This debate will rage on endlessly. The confusion and disorganization is what has allowed the ebb and flow of legislation to erode the basic freedoms and liberties that we were born with to become "managed behavior"...

I knew this was going to take this route... The III% of the colonists who actively participated in the revolt that freed this country from the aristocracy that ruled behavior, those who died for that cause and those who lived to see it through would be disappointed. Conditioning has led us here...

 

[6shootercarry]

I know what I'm going to say may upset some people so let me preface it by saying that I am a long time NRA member, am a strong believer in our second amendment rights, have more guns then I need (if that's possible),and have had a concealed weapons permit for a number of years. That said, I would like to express my quick view on doing open carry demos (ie Starbucks in CA). I believe that when you force an issue, like this one, it has a tendency to alienate those "fence sitters" and pushes them in the wrong direction. Don't kick the sleeping dog, he will awaken and may bit you on the butt.

How is it forcing an issue if a group of "friends" decide to meet at a coffee house? Is it the fact that we are carrying handguns? Maybe we have been made to suffer the issue. Always looked upon like a criminal, some kind of monster or social deviant.. But interpretation will eventually solve this issue for us... Imagine if the decision goes 5 to 4 against the right... What to do?

 

[NavyLCDR]

I know what I'm going to say may upset some people so let me preface it by saying that I am a long time NRA member, am a strong believer in our second amendment rights, have more guns then I need (if that's possible),and have had a concealed weapons permit for a number of years. That said, I would like to express my quick view on doing open carry demos (ie Starbucks in CA). I believe that when you force an issue, like this one, it has a tendency to alienate those "fence sitters" and pushes them in the wrong direction. Don't kick the sleeping dog, he will awaken and may bit you on the butt.

Have you ever been to an open carry get together? Can you really make an honest judgement about something like that without attending/observing one? Like having a bad opinion of AA without ever going to a meeting, or a bad opinion of the ladies knitting group without ever meeting one of them in person....

Does this mean you won't be joining us for coffee? :cray:

I'll be happy to have coffee with you, tell me when my flight is, where the paid for airline tickets are, where my paid room is and which rental car company you will be providing. I'll be leaving my gun at home, however, since it would be illegal for me to carry in MA. When you want to experience freedom, come out to Washington. You can carry here without a license, and it would be illegal for police to hassle you for your openly carried handgun in a holster.

 

[Phillip Gain]

All right. I think we've had enough static from the trolls. If anyone with a valid Mass LTC wants to participate in this event, please send me a private message with your contact information. We'll get you on the email list.

 

[snatale42]

I agree with you on that. We should just do it. Only people we need to ask is the owner of the property/Starbucks location owner. If the police are called on us then the police are called. We as law abiding citizens are doing nothing wrong. Also a green town will help too.

Why the hell would you ask the property owner or Starbucks? bucks is already pro-gun. Who gives a crap what the property owner thinks....I thought I taught you well grasshopper. I'm worried your batteries are a little low flashlight.

 

[Flashlight22]

@ snatale42 Its still private property thats why Radio and i guess not all starbucks is pro gun I was asked by this guy Ed Levine (this is the guy where I learned about this starbucks thing) that starbuck doesnt want us Mass gun owners to go and show our support. The Mass starbucks owners just want to make and sell coffee. Ask your women to show i the page on facebook i sent it to her. It doesnt say anything about the mass thing butI had 3 or 4 post removed because i was pissed that he wasnt getting a straight answer from him.

 

[Flashlight22]

Update: Now I was told we can do it only if is a small group and we dont disrupt business. also I was told that we dont bring AR's and shotguns, Really! so your telling me I cant bring my WASR10. This guy must think that us Mass people are thick headed.

 

[6shootercarry]

I'm planning to go regardless... I will be bringing friends along, as many as I can get... See all y'all there..

 

[snatale42]

The object of an event like this is to create awareness. "Hey, what we're doing is perfectly legal. See, we even have nice police officers here supporting us."

It would be good to create POSITIVE awareness, as opposed to risking provoking a confrontation with Westborough Police.

Hypothetically - let's say we did not notify anyone. As one of us is heading into the Starbucks, there is ONE freaked out person calling 911. "Help! I saw a guy with a gun at the Starbucks on Rt 9 as I was about to go in for coffee!! I was scared out of my mind, and drove off, then called you!!!"

How do you think Westborough PD is going to respond? My guess would be all units, strobes and sirens, guns drawn.

There's no guarantee there won't be a MWAG call but If you ask and they don't approve, then what? Them saying no means nothing, but It starts you out with 1 strike against you. Westborough is a green town so I doubt there would be an issue. With that said only each person's CoP can pull their LTC, so maybe people from red towns may want to go concealed but make it obvious some other way why they are there THAT day. Either way at some point fear of NOT breaking the law needs to stop people from allowing the mentality to continue. Strength in numbers. Besides people will be armed with what cops fear most....CELL PHONE CAMERAS! If people wanted to (although BS to have to do it) Get a Statie detail. THEY are aware of the law!

 

[oldwindways]

I would be hesitant to open carry at this event (my Chief of Police is not as friendly as some others in this state) and possibly become a test case. That being said, has anyone considered some sort of empty holster gathering. I think it has been done in other states to demonstrate support for open carry and increase awareness, without pushing the envelope with law enforcement. Either way, I support the spirit of what you guys are doing, and I will be eagerly listening for after action reports.

 

[snatale42]

That being said, has anyone considered some sort of empty holster gathering. I think it has been done in other states to demonstrate support for open carry and increase awareness, without pushing the envelope with law enforcement.

I think the empty holster thing has it's place when your protesting a state that doesn't allow OC or something to that effect. But the problem is that OC IS LEGAL in MA. The State Police have confirmed this many times. I get where your coming from but people being afraid to exercise a right they already have, it the problem itself. If people show up with empty holsters. Complaining about there right to OC being infringed. The SAME cops that may have given you a hard time will be the one saying "I don't understand what these people are doing, there ALLOWED to open carry with a LTC-A". It's not pushing the envelope when it's already legal. If you live in a red town go concealed, but go.