O. C. Individual sues police 3.6 mil


Cumberland

New member
Interesting follow up news story today about a OC arrest by local police. This guy knew his rights, the police didn't. It could be a 3.6 million dollar mistake. The riverside board of trustees are deciding today on the payment to be made. With that amount involved, I may switch to more OC than my normal cc.
Just kidding. I think his mistake was not producing ID when asked. Not a good idea whether legal or not.
Here's a link to story

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And a dash cam vid
http://youtu.be/siAqelKBUAA
 

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Case is more than a year old, but still working its way through the courts. Trying to find info on it.

Found original Southern District of Ohio Federal Court Complaint here.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6gtW6DYSo1RaWVyS3BBLW51MXM/edit

I'm not 100% positive about the rules here as to posting links to named other gun forums, but I think it's probably bad form at the least, so I won't name the other forum, but will say that Roy Call's attorney is active Link Removed elsewhere, and the most current information available that I've been able to find is in that thread if you care to peruse the 130+ posts. When I say "most current," the last post in the thread is from February of this year. The suit was filed in May of last year. The incident actually happened in 2012 - not sure what month. As far as I can tell, the below links are still the "most current" official movement on the case:

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Link Removed "Maynard v. City of Englewood"
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That info was compiled by a poster at the other forum whose Link Removed to give credit where credit is due.

Blues
 
Wow! That's a wealth of info. I know it was in 2012, but was the first I'd heard of it today on local news. A decision was being made today by city of riverside.
 
I guess it's the attorney that comes up with these figures for damages & restitution. Sounds a little exorbitant to me since he was released and gun returned. If say it could have been handled better by ALL parties involved
 
While he should not have been arrested his suit for 3.6 million dollars is ridiculous and I'm ashamed for him and his money-grubbing.
 
Wow! That's a wealth of info. I know it was in 2012, but was the first I'd heard of it today on local news. A decision was being made today by city of riverside.

The "City of Riverside" can't decide anything for a federal court, so what do you mean above?

And here again we find gun owners criticizing the victims of civil rights abuses by cops because they sue in numbers adequate to force a change in the jurisdiction's policies. It is freakin' disgusting. Why are you people even here? Just to find things to complain about concerning other gun owners who don't exercise their God-given rights just exactly like you do? The $3.6 million is just a number to umm....shoot for. It happens all the time that high numbers are attached to what some conclude was an insignificant violation of someone's rights, and the jury decides what's "reasonable." Maybe one of you guys would like to be arrested and have a trumped up charge lodged against you for remaining silent during questioning? Or demanding a warrant before a cop is allowed to enter your homes? Maybe your suit will be for a buck.98 for cops violating your rights, but this guy was doing absolutely nothing illegal, and if you read the arresting cop's report, you'll even see him admit as much.

It's not the victim's fault that the system allows the illegal actions of lawless cops to be paid at tax-payer's expense, but only big judgments will ever enure to cities and their PDs bringing their rogue cops into compliance with the law that they're supposed to enforce without having to be spanked with huge judgments!

Blues
 
Page 4 of the Link Removed has the following bit of information:

As Ohio is an open carry state, and he had not actually done anything illegal with the gun beyond scaring the female customer, I did return his weapon to him, unloaded for safety reasons. No gun charge has been filed.

As Ohio is also subject to, well, Terry v. Ohio, the controlling Supreme Court ruling covering ID checks, Disorderly Conduct investigations etc., the Sgt. who wrote that report should know that Terry restricts him from contacting a citizen simply for OC'ing a weapon. He must have "reasonable articulable suspicion" (RAS) of a crime having been, or about to be, committed before he can demand any information from the subject.

In short, that report is nothing but a bunch of admissions of trumped up charges, illegal harassment, and violating Mr. Call's civil rights knowingly and intentionally.

How much "spanking" is "too much" with that level of lawlessness being perpetrated by freakin' cops?

Gun owners are our own worst enemies. WAKE UP!!!!

Blues
 
and he had not actually done anything illegal with the gun beyond scaring the female customer

"nothing illegal beyond scaring the female customer" woulld imply that scaring the customer was an illegal act. I'm glad Washington does not have that kind of law. Here it is not illegal to scare (cause alarm) someone with your gun. It is only illegal "to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."

The presence of the firearm alone nor the fact that someone is alarmed by the presence of the firearm will violate the statute. All of the circumstances must be met and determined to warrant alarm to violate the statute. Our state Supreme Court has ruled more than once that merely carrying a firearm - even in the hand - does not rise to the level of warranting alarm.
 
There’s a legal maneuver that discourages asking for huge awards, and I’m surprised his attorney thinks his case is so slam-dunk that he filed for so much.

It works like this: Say I take a municipality to court for violating my civil rights. I’m asking for $1,000 in damages. They offer me $500 to settle out of court. I say, “Bite me” and we go to court.

The jury finds in my favor and rules that the police did, indeed, violate my civil rights. The award is also determined by the jury, and because of the circumstances they award me $1. Well, at least I won…right?

Well, I did win, but now I’m on the hook for all my legal fees (unless that was either pro-bono or on a percentage arrangement), and all their legal fees as well. If the jury awards me anything less than what I was offered out of court ($500) I am responsible for their legal fees.

That’s the way the legal system works.
 
There’s a legal maneuver that discourages asking for huge awards, and I’m surprised his attorney thinks his case is so slam-dunk that he filed for so much.

It works like this: Say I take a municipality to court for violating my civil rights. I’m asking for $1,000 in damages. They offer me $500 to settle out of court. I say, “Bite me” and we go to court.

The jury finds in my favor and rules that the police did, indeed, violate my civil rights. The award is also determined by the jury, and because of the circumstances they award me $1. Well, at least I won…right?

Well, I did win, but now I’m on the hook for all my legal fees (unless that was either pro-bono or on a percentage arrangement), and all their legal fees as well. If the jury awards me anything less than what I was offered out of court ($500) I am responsible for their legal fees.

That’s the way the legal system works.

And you are truly naive if you think this is the way the legal system works. Suing for multi-millions has nothing to do with thinking the case is a slam dunk. It has everything to do with 1) getting the attention of the municipality and 2) giving himself room to negotiate. They are pursuing a seven digit figure knowing that it will be negotiated down significantly. Start with a figure that is too low, and you end up with the scenario you present - the citizen getting NOTHING and even worse, going into the hole for the attorney's legal fees.
 
Page 4 of the Link Removed has the following bit of information:



As Ohio is also subject to, well, Terry v. Ohio, the controlling Supreme Court ruling covering ID checks, Disorderly Conduct investigations etc., the Sgt. who wrote that report should know that Terry restricts him from contacting a citizen simply for OC'ing a weapon. He must have "reasonable articulable suspicion" (RAS) of a crime having been, or about to be, committed before he can demand any information from the subject.

In short, that report is nothing but a bunch of admissions of trumped up charges, illegal harassment, and violating Mr. Call's civil rights knowingly and intentionally.

How much "spanking" is "too much" with that level of lawlessness being perpetrated by freakin' cops?

Gun owners are our own worst enemies. WAKE UP!!!!

Blues

Interesting read, that report. So it appears that, although they returned his firearm, they confiscated his ammo.
 
The comments of the anti made me say under my breathe, your being a chicken does not abridge my rights.

If you're talking about the female who "reported" the OC'er to the cops, I have read subsequently to yesterday's posts of mine that she and the cop were already talking to, and knew, each other. She remains "unnamed" even now, so it's quite possible that the female said nothing to the cop about the gun or being afraid, and that the cop illegally initiated the stop on his own. While the charges against Roy Call were dropped, the female's testimony would be necessary to have ever established any semblance of a legal stop. Can't get testimony from an unnamed source though, which is one of the main basis for saying that the original Police Report is a work of total fiction.

Blues
 
That is why I bought a copy of the Pocket Guide to Alabama Criminal Laws which is supposed to be carried by our law enforcement officers. If there is ever a question and the officer does not have his, I WILL have mine for him to reference. I also read on here some time ago where a police officer was talking to a female clerk in a convenience store when a man entered with a small tool bag on his belt. The officer allegedly told the clerk to "Watch me scare the **** out of that fellow." He then proceeded to the man and drew his pistol and began questioning while pointing his weapon in his face, under the assumption he was carrying? That action was a little dangerous bravado by the officer and could have ended in disaster. Police officers are going to have to learn how to deal with people in a professional manner rather than like thugs themselves. A horse's rear end is a horse's rear end, whether wearing a badge or not.
 
The "City of Riverside" can't decide anything for a federal court, so what do you mean above?

And here again we find gun owners criticizing the victims of civil rights abuses by cops because they sue in numbers adequate to force a change in the jurisdiction's policies. It is freakin' disgusting. Why are you people even here? Just to find things to complain about concerning other gun owners who don't exercise their God-given rights just exactly like you do? The $3.6 million is just a number to umm....shoot for. It happens all the time that high numbers are attached to what some conclude was an insignificant violation of someone's rights, and the jury decides what's "reasonable." Maybe one of you guys would like to be arrested and have a trumped up charge lodged against you for remaining silent during questioning? Or demanding a warrant before a cop is allowed to enter your homes? Maybe your suit will be for a buck.98 for cops violating your rights, but this guy was doing absolutely nothing illegal, and if you read the arresting cop's report, you'll even see him admit as much.

It's not the victim's fault that the system allows the illegal actions of lawless cops to be paid at tax-payer's expense, but only big judgments will ever enure to cities and their PDs bringing their rogue cops into compliance with the law that they're supposed to enforce without having to be spanked with huge judgments!

Blues

That's what I heard in the news report. That city of riverside was deciding yesterday how to make the payment. The final amount wasn't mentioned.
And I'm not and was not criticizing the victim or anyone for that matter. I wasn't there, and there's usually always more to the story.
I'm very familiar with area where this happened. 3 -4 miles from me, but hadn't heard anything about it till two days ago
 
That's what I heard in the news report. That city of riverside was deciding yesterday how to make the payment. The final amount wasn't mentioned.

Ahh, OK, I didn't understand you were referring to a settlement agreement. Apparently it isn't finalized yet, but I did find what it sounds like you are talking about, at least a written version of it. Interestingly, it's from the "Insurance News Network" website, which is covering the settlement from the insurance carrier's (for the City) perspective. It says the City has already voted to allot the $5,000 needed for their deductible, and they're negotiating with Call's attorney on the terms of payment for the rest, but how much the rest is won't be disclosed until after the details have been agreed to (I'll add "if ever" to what the story says about that). Couple of interesting tidbits from the story:

According to the resolution, the city will be required to provide the police department with training on second amendment rights by Dec. 31 of this year.

Where's the requirement for training on consequences for trumped up charges and lying on official Police Reports (and most likely in sworn depositions too)? Sgt. Jones said in his own report that he was fully aware of Call's rights and knew he hadn't done anything illegal, so he went beyond Terry's allowances (which favor cops by a wide margin) and trumped up the charge of Obstruction of Justice just because he doesn't like OC'ers, even though he does know their rights under the law. Which leads to another rather troubling tidbit from the story:

It also states the settlement is "not an admission of liability; rather the City expressly denies liability and affirms that it is settling solely to avoid incurring additional costs in defending the pending claim."

After close to two years fighting City Hall, I get why Mr. Call is willing to settle, but not so much as an apology is going to be forthcoming to him, which pretty much leaves Call's abuse unaccounted for, the City's tax-payers holding the bag, and the two cops who cost them the money getting off scot-free. As per usual.

And I'm not and was not criticizing the victim or anyone for that matter.

Really? How did I misunderstand this then?

I guess it's the attorney that comes up with these figures for damages & restitution. Sounds a little exorbitant to me since he was released and gun returned. If say it could have been handled better by ALL parties involved

Do rights turn into pumpkins like Cinderella's chariot at midnight or something? Should Call have "handled it better" by not OC'ing at 4:30 am? Or should he have "handled it better" by answering questions that he knew Sgt. Jones had no legal authority to ask in the first place, much less demand answers of him for under threat of false charges under color of law?

Sorry, you criticized the victim, Roy Call, for somehow not handling it "better." You criticized his attorney for setting a punitive damages number that you say was "exorbitant." It sounds like you want Jones and Jackson to get a pass, "...since he was released and gun returned." I don't see anything more than that that's critical of the cops, and as far as I can tell, they are the only ones who could've "handled it better" by any rational scrutiny of the case.

I wasn't there, and there's usually always more to the story.

So what's the "more to the story" that Call could've done to have "handled it better?" Try to answer that without saying he should've relinquished his right to not answer questions, or he shouldn't have been out at 4:30 am, or that he and his lawyer shouldn't have decided between them what damages to ask for instead of consulting with you and all the other gun owners who seem just fine with the cops' actions, but critical of Call and/or his attorney for acting 100% legally in an open carry state. Best of luck with that.

I'm very familiar with area where this happened. 3 -4 miles from me, but hadn't heard anything about it till two days ago

So now you know the "rest of the story." Thank me. I'm welcome.

Blues
 
And you are truly naive if you think this is the way the legal system works.
Really?

How many such suits have you brought?

Here's the code: RULE 68. Link Removed

(d) Paying Costs After an Unaccepted Offer. If the judgment that the offeree finally obtains is not more favorable than the unaccepted offer, the offeree must pay the costs incurred after the offer was made.
 
Yea thanks blues for the rest of the story.
When I said ALL. involved could have handled it better that includes the person that initially called and why.... The cops that responded... And possibly even Mr. Call. I wasn't there. You wasn't there and all the information is a transcript we read other than the small snip of dash cam vid. We really don't know what happened before, during & after.
 
The case was dismissed in June 2014 because it was apparently settled. I wonder if the settlement is the full 3.6 million?
 

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