New member scoping out Illinois CCW value vs. risk

If he lives or goes into Chicago he should be VERY careful. I have not lived there for 30 years but back then the LAST thing you wanted was to get picked up and taken to a Chicago Police Station. They would beat the crap out of you and say you resisted arrest. There was a story about the Chicago Chief of Police saying something about how they would treat CC'ers. I have forgotten exactly what he said but it was not good for anyone who was carrying legally!

I read up on that, and there is indeed more reason to fear police in Chicago than an armed criminal. The Chicago police chief has said he will train his officers that there is a CCW law now. However, he will tell them that they do not need to wait to be fired on to return fire. Meaning, they may shoot you dead the moment they see anything on you that they think may or may not be a weapon. This can easily be abused to the point of sheer murder. "Your honour, this man was at the scene of an active shooting. He was holding something in his hand, and I thought it was a gun. So I shot." The cop will be protected, you'll be dead, and your family will be destroyed.
Yeah... I think I'm just going to avoid Chicago like the plague...
 
I do agree with several points there. Yes, only I can make this decision. Yes, a right that's so much of a hassle and risk it's not exercised may as well be a denied right.

So far, as it stands, my decision is to get the training, get the license, then wait a while to carry until police, attorneys, and the public in general are more used to it and hopefully more accepting. Illinois did only make its CCW licenses available a month ago or so. I'd expect police to be still vague and confused on some laws, attorneys not knowing what to do in those cases yet, and the public to be petrified of the idea someone among them might have a weapon.
 
It's reasons like this that discourage me from wanting to carry... Police and lawyers are a bigger threat to you than even a mass shooter it seems. The shooter can at least be dropped with a few rounds. The police, you can't even video tape them anymore, and the lawyers have the force of law behind their every word. If you fight either of those, you become the bad guy.
Fortunately, I found something saying the state attorney in my county (McHenry County's Louis Bianchi) claims to be pro second amendment and in favour of citizens being able to defend themselves. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.
Maybe I'll get my CCW, then wait and watch to see if any worrying legal cases arise before I start to actually bring my weapon with me.
Without being a jerk... have you explored the actual law in reference to what is legal to record either in audio or audio/video format?

I did a quick search and found:

Illinois Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project

I don't think that is the entire scope of the actual law (searching the actual black letter laws of Illinois would be wise) it gives an indication of what might be permissible.
 
I do not want to fight with you on this but I think you are wrong on thinking that the IL police HAVE to follow the law. Google how many IL politicians have been convicted of a crime. IL has had 4 Governors in prison!! If he lives or goes into Chicago he should be VERY careful. I have not lived there for 30 years but back then the LAST thing you wanted was to get picked up and taken to a Chicago Police Station. They would beat the crap out of you and say you resisted arrest. There was a story about the Chicago Chief of Police saying something about how they would treat CC'ers. I have forgotten exactly what he said but it was not good for anyone who was carrying legally!

Chicago and Northern IL is very corrupt and I feel very sorry for whoever has to use his weapon in self defense. Their life will not ever be the same!
No, they won't follow the law which is why I say expect to be arrested.
 
Right, not convincing them is the right move. The attorney will do that.
Also, in regards to not mentioning the fifth, I've found rulings stating that keeping silent without a word is a bad move. They say that you must explicitly invoke the fifth, otherwise your silence will be taken as trying to hide something.
No sir. No rulings needed. The right to remain silent does not require you qualify it. You've already said too much. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
 
Right, not convincing them is the right move. The attorney will do that.
Also, in regards to not mentioning the fifth, I've found rulings stating that keeping silent without a word is a bad move. They say that you must explicitly invoke the fifth, otherwise your silence will be taken as trying to hide something.

I did see that in an article once, but I don't remember where. You don't happen to have it handy, do you?

I think I'd just keep repeating, "He attacked me. I was in fear for my life. I'm very shaken right now, but I'll be happy to answer all your questions when I have my lawyer present." Sadly, it will help that I'm a tall but very light woman.

I've also heard it's a good idea to point out any evidence the cops might miss... especially any casings that EMTs might have kicked away that'll make it look like you were somewhere else, or a weapon the bad guy might have thrown off to the side as he went down.
 
Without being a jerk... have you explored the actual law in reference to what is legal to record either in audio or audio/video format?

I did a quick search and found:

Illinois Recording Law | Digital Media Law Project

I don't think that is the entire scope of the actual law (searching the actual black letter laws of Illinois would be wise) it gives an indication of what might be permissible.

While by Illinois law it is illegal, the Illinois Seventh Court Circuit has ruled it unconstitutional, and banned it from being enforced. When an appeal was sent to the Supreme court, they threw out the appeal. Which, in legal terms, they may as well have said "What are you whinging to me about it for? They made their decision, accept it."
This has granted everyone who's been arrested (illegally) for it acquittal in under an hour in many cases. So while a video recording of police misconduct could be used as evidence in a case, it will be anything between an inconvenience and a hassle to get it used. Fortunately, most judges and juries are sympathetic to citizens using video recordings as evidence.
 
It's reasons like this that discourage me from wanting to carry... Police and lawyers are a bigger threat to you than even a mass shooter it seems. The shooter can at least be dropped with a few rounds. The police, you can't even video tape them anymore, and the lawyers have the force of law behind their every word. If you fight either of those, you become the bad guy.
Fortunately, I found something saying the state attorney in my county (McHenry County's Louis Bianchi) claims to be pro second amendment and in favour of citizens being able to defend themselves. Whether or not this is true remains to be seen.
Maybe I'll get my CCW, then wait and watch to see if any worrying legal cases arise before I start to actually bring my weapon with me.

I would get the permit if I was you. I was born and raised in Southern IL. I moved to Chicago after service to work. I do know how Chicago politics works. The Chicago Police will do all they can to test the law. As more and more people carry they will most likely relax some. But it would be better to defend yourself AND be alive even if you had to put up with IL political crap than to be dead.
If you stay alert of your surroundings the chances of you getting into a problem are low. I carry because even if I am alert and try to avoid problems, some could come out of the blue. I am not looking for trouble but I want to be ready if or when it comes.
So carry, watch those around you, stay alert and carry!
 
More or less my plan. Get the money, get the course, then the license. Then once I can carry, I'll be waiting a while and letting people get more used to the idea that people around them may be armed legally now.
If I go to Chicago though, I'm going to either not carry, or be cautious as humanly possible. I'd rather not end up being either shot by Chicago police by 'accident' or being arrested and brutalized under the assumption that asking not to be beaten qualifies as 'resisting arrest'...
Then again, I only go near Chicago via train anyway. Illinois doesn't allow carry on any sort of public transport, so chances of going to Chicago are slim for me.
 
The Chief stated any concealed carry permit holder that turns toward an officer with a gun-in-hand will be shot on sight. This moron doesn't know that CC holders are some of the most law-abiding citizens in any pool!

Arrogance, narcissism, delusions of grandeur, and corruption are apparent in the CPD.

This is why Chicago is in dire straits. The entire city is a cesspool of organized crime, encompassing and strangling it.

I hope the new CC crowd effects a downward trend in murder rates and all manner of crimes in the city.

Then the blatant fool in blue might sing a different tune...probably taking credit for it.
 
The Chief stated any concealed carry permit holder that turns toward an officer with a gun-in-hand will be shot on sight. This moron doesn't know that CC holders are some of the most law-abiding citizens in any pool!

And probably does not care, they are citizens, and citizens are merely criminals that haven't been caught yet. Sadly this is the mentality of more and more police chiefs/sheriffs and they are training the rank and file cops to view us the same.

Doubt that, look at the statement of the Onslow NC sheriff running for re-election.
"Those in the law enforcement profession have complete power and authority over you, your life, your family, your loved ones, your rights, your freedom, your future and everything precious to life.”


Link Removed
 
And probably does not care, they are citizens, and citizens are merely criminals that haven't been caught yet. Sadly this is the mentality of more and more police chiefs/sheriffs and they are training the rank and file cops to view us the same.

Doubt that, look at the statement of the Onslow NC sheriff running for re-election.
"Those in the law enforcement profession have complete power and authority over you, your life, your family, your loved ones, your rights, your freedom, your future and everything precious to life.”


Link Removed

Excessive, redundant Bovine Scatology. After the constant references to God, Fairness, Integrity, Diversity, Equality, ad-nauseum, ad-infinitum, the crux of the biscuit is in your highlighted text. I got the impression that a self-appointed, and anointed Greek God was threatening we mere mortals with police state, socialism, and destruction of family values, in spite of the good ol' red white and blue, flag waving, the U.S. military and last but not least, proud patriots references.

That .pdf file is horrid to look at, and should be an example of the worst kind of embellished document to be written. There. I said it. I wouldn't support that sheriff if he paid me. Perhaps we should have a one-on-one video with the good sheriff, and start asking some hard questions about his apparent Jekyll/Hyde disorder?

Another political ad that leaves me absolutely flummoxed. That jack boot thug mentality is never far below the surface, no matter what patriotic facade it's wrapped in.

Thankfully, we have many well educated sheriffs who take their jobs seriously, and put BGs where they belong, without a hint of God complex. We have a sheriff who teaches CHCL classes, and would like to see all able citizens with concealed carry licenses. It doesn't get any better than that. Citizens are appreciated, because we're in the trenches and LEOs know they cannot arrive in time to end a terrible crime.
 
As another Illinoisan who has never carried and awaiting the arrival of my CCL, I understand exactly where you're coming from.

I would like to suggest that you read some of the Concealed Carry books out there -


Armed Response by Dave Kenik
In The Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob
StressFire by Massad Ayoob
The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry by Massad Ayoob

Just to name a few...

These books - especially the ones by Massad Ayoob, who is one of the leading authorities on not only the concealed carry lifestyle but the laws and how they work for those of us in the worst of situations - will give you a much better idea of what to do, what to expect and how to minimize your chances of being convicted by your own actions.

I would also suggest that any calls to 9-1-1 should be kept short and sweet as these calls CAN be used against you in court. As officers arrive, holster your weapon and keep your hands out in plain sight so they don't think you are the predator, let them know you were in "fear for your life" and were forced to shoot to defend yourself. Point out any evidence they might miss (did one attacker run and throw his gun into a bush down the block), point out any witnesses' and then tell them - as so many have said - the you want to help in any way you can, but you are just too shook up to answer any questions until you've had a chance to talk with your attorney.

One other point that I never hear mentioned... If you are married, you're spouse should be giving the same answer to police. Although your spouse can't be forced to testify against you, anything they say to police CAN be used against you. I recently had a conversation about this with my wife. I wanted her to understand that if that horrible event were to spill into our lives (in hindsight it could be a car accident or any other situation where arrests may be made or civil suits could be filed), it was important that she keep all information to a minimum. If a call to 9-1-1 was made, all she should say is something on the order of; "This is ****, someone broke into our home, threatened to kills us and my husband had to shoot him in self defense." That's it. Nothing more. Why? Because the 9-1-1 tape can be used against you in a court of law. If your spouse called 9-1-1, in hysterics, and then said "Some s.o.b. just broke into our house, but we're okay, my husband killed that bastard dead," well, you can see for yourself, you might cringe hearing that ringing out in court.

Just my thoughts,

Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly
 

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