New Firing Range...

[d@v3]

Hi all,

I'm in the very, very, very preliminary stages of considering building a new firing range and am here for your suggestions on the following:

Name- What do you think the range should be called? Why?

Location- Considering that this will be a small business (and profits will need to be turned) I think it should be as close to a major metro area as zoning laws allow. Should it be in a place where gun laws are strict and therefore are less gun ranges, or should it be in a place where gun laws are lenient where many people have firearms? TN? TX? PA? NC? VT? Anywhere in the U.S. (preferably close to the Mid-Atlantic states, but not necessary.) Defend your choice!

Size- This range will include the following: an indoor handgun/bow range (~50ft. max distance), an outdoor rifle range (~400yrds.), an outdoor skeet/clay area (10-20 throwers), and a separate outdoor handgun/bow range (~150ft. max distance). There will also be a small retail store built into the indoor range which would sell ammunition, targets, and other shooting materials. Do you think 2-3 acres would be sufficient? How big should the parking lot be?

Budget- Assuming I can put together a solid business plan and find a bank I can convince to loan me money, I was thinking a preliminary budget of about $8M (excluding the parking lot) which will be extendable to $12M is necessary. (I can promise you that this whole plan WILL be scrapped if Obummer wins in Nov.)

Hi-Tech- As much as I love technology, I feel a range should be more on the conservative side. Instead of pressing a button to reset your target, the targets will be on a track system. I will most likely be getting the air filtration and maintenance systems through Action Target (Action Target). However, it all depends on costs. I have decided that, though I am not going to exclude law enforcement from using the range while on the clock, the range will be designed specifically with the public in mind.

I am fully aware (After all, I live in NY!) there are many details and laws that have to be considered in building one of these, but the above thoughts are just for brainstorming. Also, though I will take the time to read through this thread, please don't be offended if I don't reply to your suggestion.

Any other suggestions in regards to things not listed above are welcome!

 

[croute]

With 20 years in the advertising/marketing biz and a former biz owner, I feel qualified to answer some of your questions. Feel free to get in touch with me if you have more or would like additional help.

1. Research names already taken. I'm sure you know you can't use the same or similar name to one that's already used in the area, nor one that is registered nationally.

2. Again, do your homework. Look at businesses in those areas and research how they're holding up. Public information is available on how much annual revenue they take in. Obviously you don't want to build where the market is saturated. My opinion is you'd be better off where gun laws aren't strict, but your idea of an area lacking ranges is sound.

3. I think 2-3 acres is too small. 5 would be more like it. The parking lot is another research area. Again, look at similar companies in the areas and see how much parking space they have. That should give you a good starting point.

As far as the other two concerns, I don't have enough knowledge in the areas to offer any advice. I'm sure you noticed I didn't give you any concrete answers. The one thing you should take from my answers is that research is the #1 priority you should have. Without it, many businesses fail and many banks won't lend you the money unless you have all these answers first. I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Mike BobCat Kelly]

Been working on prelims for new shooting range inn South Dakota

Hey there, my name is Michael Deakins in Mitchell South Dakota.Been working on new range idea, can give you advice 605.770.7027 about grants both state & local plus federal & NRA grants

 

[d@v3]

Gentlemen, thank you very much for the prompt replies and candid support. I have been researching for many years on different subjects (esp. political) that is why I stated in the beginning of the thread this is all preliminary research and of course, that if Obama wins this will probably not go through. I am steadfast that I amnot about to dive head first into a massive abyss of uncertainty! I will certainly keep your advice and contact information in mind.

Croute, now that I think about it, you're right about at least 5 acres. I was thinking of having concrete walls surrounding the outdoor range to keep any stray round from escaping. I also want to have earth push up around it.

Mike, I am wary about government loans as many have stipulations which then could lead to intervention. The NRA grants may be a different story, however.

 

[RonaldGAdams]

Agree with 1&2 but with the outside ranges, even 5 is too small. NRA has a book/CD on building/running ranges, as well as mentoring volunteers I believe. I would start with them

 

[spdracr39]

I would think that Insurance requirements would be a big factor in deciding how large a buffer zone you would need between the range and adjacent businesses. I am sure there is little chance of an outdoor range in any type of populated area.

 

[Krohbar]

I would suggest a location on the outskirts of a more affluent metro. I'm not talking uber rich, but you know the type of suburb I'm referring to. No offense, I live in the not-so affluent side. With the rise in gun ownership by women, soccer moms are now gunner moms, and I for one would one to also cater to the demographic. For example, there is only one indoor range in the Omaha (NE) metro. And outdoor ranges here are non-existent unless you belong to a gun club, and that range is way out of town. Fortunately, I have access to farmland north of town. The only drawback is our idiot mayor is friends with Dumbberg. But that is my bit of advice.

 

[Etkini]

I've got one thing to say.. come here to southern VT and build a 1,000yd range. Go over on Sniper's Hide, and you'll find out just how many of us from NY, VT, NH, ME, CT, etc have been waiting for Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club in NH to stop talking about building their 1,000yd range and just do it.

We've already got a lot of ranges with trap/skeet, but what we don't have is a range where you can rent cool toys. Our nearest ones are in Belmont and Manchester, NH (both are nice, I've been to them. :smile. A 50yd pistol area and a 50yd open area for doing tactical drills like the one at my old club (Brunswick Sportsmans Club) would be nice as well. I personally don't care too much about the indoor thing, but a popular thing to do is have handguns\.22LR if it's small, or any caliber like the two in NH.

Now I realize I don't exactly live in a place as big as Albany, but I can almost guarantee a setup like this would bring people in from an hour or more away.

 

[d@v3]

Yes, I will have to figure out the acreage. I think you all are right, it would have to be more like 8-10 acres or something. And of course, as SPD said, the insurance regulations and government regulations will play a role in decided exactly where it will go. But I won't know any of that until I choose a specific area it's going in.

I would suggest a location on the outskirts of a more affluent metro. I'm not talking uber rich, but you know the type of suburb I'm referring to. No offense, I live in the not-so affluent side. With the rise in gun ownership by women, soccer moms are now gunner moms, and I for one would one to also cater to the demographic. For example, there is only one indoor range in the Omaha (NE) metro. And outdoor ranges here are non-existent unless you belong to a gun club, and that range is way out of town. Fortunately, I have access to farmland north of town. The only drawback is our idiot mayor is friends with Dumbberg. But that is my bit of advice.

Good point about the soccer moms turning into gunner moms. Also, I think the only way to charge people is to have a membership, or if non-members want to use it, they can do a pay-per-visit thing. What is the adult population in Omaha? Just thinking from a population standpoint, if I was going to go out West then maybe around Kansas City would be good?

I've got one thing to say.. come here to southern VT and build a 1,000yd range. Go over on Sniper's Hide, and you'll find out just how many of us from NY, VT, NH, ME, CT, etc have been waiting for Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club in NH to stop talking about building their 1,000yd range and just do it.

We've already got a lot of ranges with trap/skeet, but what we don't have is a range where you can rent cool toys. Our nearest ones are in Belmont and Manchester, NH (both are nice, I've been to them. :smile. A 50yd pistol area and a 50yd open area for doing tactical drills like the one at my old club (Brunswick Sportsmans Club) would be nice as well. I personally don't care too much about the indoor thing, but a popular thing to do is have handguns\.22LR if it's small, or any caliber like the two in NH.

Now I realize I don't exactly live in a place as big as Albany, but I can almost guarantee a setup like this would bring people in from an hour or more away.

I like the fact that it's on the overlapping areas of those states. I also like the laws (or lack thereof) in VT when it comes to handguns. Personally, I like the indoor range in the winter if I just want to shoot my handgun, bow, or .22. Otherwise, I'm all for the outdoor range! 1,000yrds is a long range and would require more land. I was thinking a max. of 600yrds.

The other thing I was considering is to have range tunnels. Instead of piling up earth around an outdoor range, it may be cheaper to dig down and pile the displaced earth around sub terrainian tunnels.

 

[Numenor]

VA would be a good state for this I'd say.

 

[Krohbar]

the Omaha "metro" is 860k, of that, without digging, not sure the adult population. Not saying we are the best candidate for your plans, I'd just like to see another one open up. The range here offers membership that gives you discounted range time, etc, rest of the public pay as you go normal rates.

 

[Etkini]

Now that I've thought about it some more, if you plan on making a 600yd range, 5 acres is definitely no where near enough land. My old club in NY with a 300yd range, a trap field, and two 50yd pistol pits sat on 80 acres. You've also got to remember you might want to have some extra land behind the range for stray bullets and debris, as you certainly don't want someone to build a house right behind the range. Also, people like to complain a lot about noise. Almost every range I've belonged to has had countless legal battles with the neighbors over noise, when it's in their deeds that they live next to a shooting range and there will be noise, especially strange considering the clubs have been around for almost 100 years and the people living there have been there less than 5 years.

If my math is right, five acres will get you a plot of land about 660ft x 330ft. That's enough for maybe a 150-200yd range, and a building if you plot it right.

 

[d@v3]

Now that I've thought about it some more, if you plan on making a 600yd range, 5 acres is definitely no where near enough land. My old club in NY with a 300yd range, a trap field, and two 50yd pistol pits sat on 80 acres. You've also got to remember you might want to have some extra land behind the range for stray bullets and debris, as you certainly don't want someone to build a house right behind the range. Also, people like to complain a lot about noise. Almost every range I've belonged to has had countless legal battles with the neighbors over noise, when it's in their deeds that they live next to a shooting range and there will be noise, especially strange considering the clubs have been around for almost 100 years and the people living there have been there less than 5 years.

If my math is right, five acres will get you a plot of land about 660ft x 330ft. That's enough for maybe a 150-200yd range, and a building if you plot it right.

You're point is valid. However, I think your math is wrong. 1 Acre translates to 43,560 sq. ft.. The maximum distance I think I'll go on the outdoor range is 400yrds.

 

[Etkini]

You're point is valid. However, I think your math is wrong. 1 Acre translates to 43,560 sq. ft.. The maximum distance I think I'll go on the outdoor range is 400yrds.

43560*5 = 217800 sq. ft., and 660x330 = 217800 sq. ft. That's how I came up with my answer. I know it doesn't seem right, but if I recall the average football stadium takes up 10-15 acres of land, and that's for a 120yd x 53yd field, plus the seats.

 

[Kenai]

Omaha, while they have a great zoo and other amenities...would be a poor choice. The bullet hole is adequate at best. The problem with that area is the people that moved there with the expansion of the silicon prairie industries and feel their level of entitlement gives them rights above all else...including the farmers that feed them. Now, if that area were something you were interested in, I would recommend you go to the east over into Iowa. A few years back I was involved in bringing a major outdoor retailer to the area (BPS) and suggested they build across the river instead of their first choice (where the Cabela's currently stands)...it worked out very well for them. I think you would be able to find cheaper land and a lot more rednecks to choose from.

 

[snatale42]

VA would be a good state for this I'd say.

I'll back this 1,000,000,000%

VA is one of the most gun friendly states in the country, yet in the capitol we have a huge need for a better range. We have 2. One is run down, dark and they force you to by their ridiculously overpriced ammo, the other is brand new and again WAY overpriced. Over $500/yr to be a member and that's for the lowest level of membership. Many people boycott it completely, many have left after joining. There are SO many things that could be done better than both of them while making it a better experience for it's shooters while in my opinion making MORE of a profit for the owners. I'm self employed so I see the business end of everything. If I had the financial backing I'd do it myself. Being a couple hours from NY would make it an ideal state to choose. If you need people on the other end if you decide to choose VA, you just found one. I'd strongly recommend against putting it in a Northeast state, being from one myself (MA) I know how that one goes.

 

[eagleeyes]

best wishes hope you find a perfect place for a great deal...........if you build it, they will come

 

[S&W645]

You're point is valid. However, I think your math is wrong. 1 Acre translates to 43,560 sq. ft.. The maximum distance I think I'll go on the outdoor range is 400yrds.

A square ten acres is 660 by 660 feet. So the maximum range on it is about 150 yards as you need the backstop area, sound buffers, shooting benches, and fences. Remember also that you need areas on the sides for buffers/berms too so for a ten acre area, the range would be down to an area of about 450' by 500'. Type " Trail Glades Gun Range, Southwest 8th Street, Miami, Fla " in google maps and zoom in to see what our county run range looks like. The pistol 50 yd range and rifle 100yd range with parking takes about 10 acres with buildings.