More Deep Kim-Chi for the American Public if True


If this is how it went down, I hope that cop hangs by his bal$$.

However, something doesn't sound right. The kid is 90 lbs, yet both his mother AND his father couldn't restrain him together and were so in fear that they called the cops. Then when 3 cops come in, they can't restrain him either without using a tazer on him to subdue him first. I don't know about you, but I've had to restrain students who have had episodes. Anyone 90 lbs would able to be easily restrained by me, and if there were two parents, I cannot see why they could not have done this themselves. I really think there is a lot more to this story.

Does anyone else say this doesn't add up?
 
wolf_fire said:
If this is how it went down, I hope that cop hangs by his bal$$.

However, something doesn't sound right. The kid is 90 lbs, yet both his mother AND his father couldn't restrain him together and were so in fear that they called the cops. Then when 3 cops come in, they can't restrain him either without using a tazer on him to subdue him first. I don't know about you, but I've had to restrain students who have had episodes. Anyone 90 lbs would able to be easily restrained by me, and if there were two parents, I cannot see why they could not have done this themselves. I really think there is a lot more to this story.

Does anyone else say this doesn't add up?
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Obviously I can't say what happened one way or the other, but I can think of at least one reason why the parents would call the cops to restrain their son rather than doing it themselves - my neighbor does the same thing when his dementia-ridden wife goes off the rails, because he doesn't want to get arrested himself when bruises or scrapes and scratches result from restraining her. Remember the story about the cop in my back yard demanding to know what I was doing out there at 1:00 in the morning? That's why they were there, because of what I just described.

In this case I could see how the parents would have similar concerns, and as far as the taser, the kid did have a screwdriver, albeit a "small" one, but if one was willing to pull the trigger on a real gun when three of them couldn't subdue the kid, it's not a stretch to think they'd respond to the screwdriver with at least a taser.

Unfortunately, the odds of the other two cops corroborating the parents' assertion that the one cop said, "We don't have time for this" before shooting him are probably a billion to one. And that is assuming that it happened that way in the first place. Of the details asserted in the piece, that is the one that I could not take at face value even with my strong distrust of cops.

The only thing I find difficult to buy without question is the "time for this" statement. The trigger-happiness though, I find to be far too typical these days, and therefore, regrettably believable.

Blues
 
wolf_fire said:
If this is how it went down, I hope that cop hangs by his bal$$.

However, something doesn't sound right. The kid is 90 lbs, yet both his mother AND his father couldn't restrain him together and were so in fear that they called the cops. Then when 3 cops come in, they can't restrain him either without using a tazer on him to subdue him first. I don't know about you, but I've had to restrain students who have had episodes. Anyone 90 lbs would able to be easily restrained by me, and if there were two parents, I cannot see why they could not have done this themselves. I really think there is a lot more to this story.

Does anyone else say this doesn't add up?
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Anyone that large can be extremely difficult to restrain, depending upon what type of episode they are having. I've seen people that size whup up on others twice their size, sometimes three or four twice their size at the same time. It all depends on the conditions. Was he under the influence of some kind of drug, or was it "just" a psychotic episode? Either way, it could easily have taken two or three (or even more) to restrain him. Both of the stories I have read about this incident were written from the perspective of a publication that is basically anti-police. It could have happened the way it was written; it could have happened in a completely different manner. I wouldn't bet my paycheck either way.
 
According to Wilsey, Vidal was pinned on the ground by two of the officers when a third said, “we don’t have time for this,” and shot Vidal, killing him.
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I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing this. Even for a bad cop this would be way over the top. There has got to be a lot more to this story.
 
Wow! I doubt that the true story will ever be known. The LEOs will stick together and the parents will stick with their story.

But this kind of story makes a person question if calling for a LEO is really a good idea!
 
HoJo said:
I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing this. Even for a bad cop this would be way over the top. There has got to be a lot more to this story.
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There always is. According to another news report, when the stepfather showed up at a press conference, he was quoted as saying the third officer said they didn't have time for this and then instructed the other officers to tase him, which is an entirely different sequence of events. It makes more sense too. And if a 90 pound kid with a small screwdriver was so harmless, why did they need the cops? Another thing that gets me about this is that the event supposedly happened in a hallway with at least three, and reportedly six, officers present. How the heck could anyone see what was going on with that many people in a hallway? Anyway, I learned long ago that the first reports in cases like this often turn out not to be true. I hope the truth does come out to the satisfaction of all. I truly feel for these people and I hope they find peace, however that may come to them. I can't imagine what I'd be like if that happened to one of my sons. And if it turns out that the officer really did what that family claims, he deserves the full measure of punishment that the law allows.
 
BigSlick said:
Here's the 911 call and a little more information.

Officer Shoots and Kills Teen With Schizophrenia: ?We don?t have time for this? - Freedom Outpost | Freedom Outpost
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Good link, BigSlick. There's a video of a family press conference outside the office of the District Attorney that is gut-wrenching. I'm uploading it to my YouTube channel right now. Looks like it has another four of five minutes to go before it's complete. I gotta hit the rack, but the link is below to the upload. It may or may not embed as a playable video here, but the link will be good real soon in any case. Here ya go:

 
While I don't know the specifics of the event or what actually led to the shooting I can tell you that my 120 pound wife, armed with a screwdriver, would be quite lethal. I wouldn't want to have to deal with her. And she's not having a psychotic episode. If experience teaches us anything it's not to form an opinion based on the writings of any member of the press. These people haven't had a relationship with truth in a long time.
 
MI .45 said:
Astonishing if this is a valid story: Parents call police for help, cops show up and kill their 18-year-old son | The Daily Caller
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Where have you been? This is happening all over the country. With no real repercussions for police that I"ve seen other than some cops being fired. I have searched extensively and cannot find a MSM source on unarmed people being killed by police each year but have read many articles that indicate about 300 unarmed people per year are killed by police.
I no longer have the source, but I read an article a couple of months ago that stated that your (approximately) 40% more likely to be murdered by police than a person with a concealed carry permit. The cops that have been "disciplined" or fired, IMO, were cases where they were flat-assed busted on videos. Otherwise, they seem to walk with a "repremand" or possibly fired. Gonna be a lot more if they keep up doing these "no knock" warrants, I think.
 
dcselby1 said:
Where have you been? This is happening all over the country. With no real repercussions for police that I"ve seen other than some cops being fired. I have searched extensively and cannot find a MSM source on unarmed people being killed by police each year but have read many articles that indicate about 300 unarmed people per year are killed by police.
I no longer have the source, but I read an article a couple of months ago that stated that your (approximately) 40% more likely to be murdered by police than a person with a concealed carry permit. The cops that have been "disciplined" or fired, IMO, were cases where they were flat-assed busted on videos. Otherwise, they seem to walk with a "repremand" or possibly fired. Gonna be a lot more if they keep up doing these "no knock" warrants, I think.
Click to expand...

Got that right...
 
dcselby1 said:
Where have you been? This is happening all over the country. With no real repercussions for police that I"ve seen other than some cops being fired. I have searched extensively and cannot find a MSM source on unarmed people being killed by police each year but have read many articles that indicate about 300 unarmed people per year are killed by police.
I no longer have the source, but I read an article a couple of months ago that stated that your (approximately) 40% more likely to be murdered by police than a person with a concealed carry permit. The cops that have been "disciplined" or fired, IMO, were cases where they were flat-assed busted on videos. Otherwise, they seem to walk with a "repremand" or possibly fired. Gonna be a lot more if they keep up doing these "no knock" warrants, I think.
Click to expand...

I've been addressing this topic for quite a while now (see my post list). Agreed, I have found that yes, about 300+ unarmed people are killed by police per year - some justified and others not. A Digital Journal article, Link Removed outlines a few examples but also states an alarming figure: 50,000 SWAT deployments per year. Definitely a recipe for misconduct, accidents, abuse, and overuse of force. HuffPo (not a fan of their outlet but I am a fan of the articles author) has this article, Drawing Down: How To Roll Back Police Militarization In America detailing more LE outrages and a list of possible solutions (which I don't remotely see coming about due to a vested interest our government has in their institution of a police state).

The OP was to highlight the complete insouciance ("We don't have time for this... BANG".) police have toward the citizenry these days. This stated, in this case, if the OP article is true and accurate.
 
This is a local story around here. The father was on the news last night and he seems entirely credible. I think it went down just as he described. What seems to be unclear as of yet is if the last officer had a tazer himself and may have been reaching for that instead of his gun. (But, as far as I know that has not been a part of the story thus far.)

I really try to give LEOs the benefit of doubt when it comes to mistakes & arrests gone bad. But, this story looks like it was a bad cop with a chip on his shoulder.


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tcox4freedom said:
This is a local story around here. The father was on the news last night and he seems entirely credible. I think it went down just as he described. What seems to be unclear as of yet is if the last officer had a tazer himself and may have been reaching for that instead of his gun. (But, as far as I know that has not been a part of the story thus far.)

I really try to give LEOs the benefit of doubt when it comes to mistakes & arrests gone bad. But, this story looks like it was a bad cop with a chip on his shoulder.


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I would generally give the benefit of doubt to the police as well, especially in a dangerous and confrontational situation. Many of them are simply cut & dry - cop confronts suspect, suspect pulls weapon, cop shoots suspect - no one has a problem with this one and probably not with some others that may be less clear. But, when a suspect is on the ground with other cops to help, it's inexcusable to pull the wrong weapon, to be covering and have a discharge (Alberto Sepulveda - SWAT Officer kills boy), or wanting to bring about a hasty conclusion (OP). These people shouldn't have a badge and if they do, zero tolerance for that error. Termination and/or prosecution - period. There are mistakes that cannot be made without repercussions, killing or maiming the restrained and innocents are two such examples.
 
MI .45 said:
I would generally give the benefit of doubt to the police as well, especially in a dangerous and confrontational situation. Many of them are simply cut & dry - cop confronts suspect, suspect pulls weapon, cop shoots suspect - no one has a problem with this one and probably not with some others that may be less clear. But, when a suspect is on the ground with other cops to help, it's inexcusable to pull the wrong weapon, to be covering and have a discharge (Alberto Sepulveda - SWAT Officer kills boy), or wanting to bring about a hasty conclusion (OP). These people shouldn't have a badge and if they do, zero tolerance for that error. Termination and/or prosecution - period. There are mistakes that cannot be made without repercussions, killing or maiming the restrained and innocents are two such examples.
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I agree 110%

Accident or not there is NO excuse. If this was indeed an accident, the officer should be fired and the department should be sued and the officer should possibly face manslaughter charges. However, if this went down the way the father said it did, the officer should be charged with murder!

So far this looks like a bad shoot. But, I don't trust the media because it's tendency to sensationalize stories like this. I know a lot of officers and not one would be willing to cover up the story if this is about a bad cop who went off the rails & committed cold blooded murder.

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I don't know guys...."benefit of the doubt" is a legal term that only comes into play at the end of a trial during jury deliberations. It applies to the defendant when his defense team has succeeded in raising reasonable doubt, and his client gets the benefit of that doubt and is acquitted if all goes according to the law.

Would reasonable doubt be raised with two eye witnesses to the crime? I mean, giving this cop the benefit of the doubt in this case means that the parents are being assumed liars. Typically it is the citizens who benefit from any doubt, not the government. Why is the benefit of the doubt being afforded this government agent at the expense of failing to scream from the mountaintops for justice for the surviving parents?

I get the caution because of the media being untrustworthy, but I don't get giving the cop the benefit of the doubt over what the parents allege. What am I missing?

Blues
 
I'm not giving the officer benefit of doubt over what the father witnessed. But, I was trying to wait to see what the initial investigation may reveal. But, according to the latest report I heard- the officer was actually about to shoot the teen again except the father grabbed the officers arm.

More & more this is looking like a scumbag officer. :angry:


It does appear the other officers are initially supporting the father's testimony as to what happened. (We'll see though. I'm sure they will be ordered to shut up now.)


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