Michael Brown shooting


"The Right’s answer should be “we do” — and we’re happy to hang them high if we know that they have transgressed." NRO article quote.

Right, left, libertarian... whatever. The issue with LE is similar to the border issue - CLOSE the border to get a handle on immigration - PROSECUTE bad cops to get a handle on police brutality. The folks have lost control of both... borders via agenda driven nat'l government; LE agencies via police unions, career driven prosecutors, and agenda driven nat'l government.

The solutions are simple - getting there... well, not so much.
 
The arrests of the journalists give something of a clue as to the situation in Fergusion vis a vis the police.

The shooting COULD have been justified, AND the cops could be thugs.
 
Just pointing out only one part of the problem here. Police training! What we see is definitely a result of the training and the mindset of
of our local police. You see it in the news, tv, and the movies. S W A T teams are trained in effect "militarily". Even the new recruits are often trained by former military vets now in Police service. Military agenda is totally different then what is needed in our communities. What is needed is Policing training. There is a difference between policing and and search and destroy military action but there seems to be a blurring of tactics and the mindset of the two forms of actions. We are becoming a third world country. I have focused on this as only one point of the problem because the other contributing factors are more subjective in their causation.
 
BTW I find no problem with Vets in police work. It's just that precautions should be taken to define the difference between Policing vs. military action and mindset.
 
ljnowell said:
In your hate for LE you all jumped right into believing the worst.

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Wow. Not one single quote from the news crew who were first run off by a tear gas round, and then their equipment was taken.

There are two groups of people whom I wouldn't trust if my life depended on it....because....well....it does. One is Al Jazeera and all muslim-centric groups, and the other is cops. That said, Al Jazeera enjoys all the protections under the 1st Amendment that anybody else, or any news organization, does. Cops are restricted by that same amendment from targeting journalists. And Michael Brown had the right not to be murdered in cold blood by the cop who started all this.

Perhaps you should consult with the crew who had the tear gas fired at them before taking the word of a cop spokesperson who says all the cops were doing was "helping" them.

bofh said:
Instead of linking an article that is quoting the spokesperson for the St. Charles County Sheriff’s department regarding this incident as its only source, how about linking an article that details the victim's account. From Obama urges Ferguson protesters to unite under common values | Al Jazeera America:

Al Jazeera journalists covering the protests in Ferguson on Wednesday night were also tear gassed and shot at with rubber bullets by police.

"Al Jazeera America is stunned by this egregious assault on freedom of the press that was clearly intended to have a chilling effect on our ability to cover this important story," said Kate O'Brian, president of Al Jazeera America.

In response to questions at a news conference on Thursday about why reporters were harassed, Ferguson police chief Jackson said, "I don't know."

When an Al Jazeera reporter piped in about being the target of police tear gas, Jackson said, “The media is not a target.”
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See also Link Removed and Link Removed.

I call the St. Charles County Sheriff’s department's statement total BS. There has been no "thank you for firing tear gas at us and taking down our equipment" statement from Al Jazeera America or the journalists involved. The St. Charles County Sheriff’s department clearly took a page out of Putin's and Russia Today's playbook in making stuff up as they go.
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Seems that hours before he was shot, Brown was involved in a store robbery a few blocks away and was caught on video tape while in progress. The cop saw him a few blocks away and stopped to speak to the 2 men. Brown started the tussle and the cop stopped it.
 
Couple of BIG IF's that need to be answered. If the kid attacked the cop and was after his gun, well don't bring your fists to a gun fight. And I would like to know if the cop that shot the kid is black or white. Initial story that he was black have been retracted. What is it now? That could go a ways toward deescalating the situation although those looking for an excuse to loot won't care about facts.
 
SR9 said:
Seems that hours before he was shot, Brown was involved in a store robbery a few blocks away and was caught on video tape while in progress. The cop saw him a few blocks away and stopped to speak to the 2 men. Brown started the tussle and the cop stopped it.
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The policeman's Chief said that the officer in question was unaware of him being a suspect in that robbery, so that was not a factor. In any case, and even if the guy was bad, the police officer was wrong to execute him. From what I read, the man had fallen, was seated, and lifted his hands to surrender. He was clearly NOT a threat and the policeman killed him anyway.
 
aacx22 said:
The policeman's Chief said that the officer in question was unaware of him being a suspect in that robbery, so that was not a factor.
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Not NECESSARILY true.

If Brown THOUGHT that he was being stopped for the robbery, he'd have a very real incentive to resist, whether that was the actual reason for the stop or not.

Doesn't mean he did, or that the level of force used by the cop was appropriate.

But it does change the equation significantly.
 
Deanimator said:
Not NECESSARILY true.

If Brown THOUGHT that he was being stopped for the robbery, he'd have a very real incentive to resist, whether that was the actual reason for the stop or not.

Doesn't mean he did, or that the level of force used by the cop was appropriate.

But it does change the equation significantly.
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Fair point. I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of the suspect.
 
aacx22 said:
Fair point. I hadn't thought of it from the perspective of the suspect.
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I saw it discussed on Ace of Spades Blog yesterday. I don't consider it dispositive, but it's something which cannot be discounted out of hand.

You've got a guy who JUST committed a violent crime, getting stopped by the cops. His juvenile record says that's hardly his first display of poor judgment.

That of course doesn't mean that the shooting was justified... or that it wasn't INITIALLY justified, then unjustified after Brown was no longer a threat.

We just don't know, and I don't trust the word of EITHER Brown's companion OR the cop. They BOTH have a HUGE incentive to lie.
 
Deanimator said:
I saw it discussed on Ace of Spades Blog yesterday. I don't consider it dispositive, but it's something which cannot be discounted out of hand.

You've got a guy who JUST committed a violent crime, getting stopped by the cops. His juvenile record says that's hardly his first display of poor judgment.

That of course doesn't mean that the shooting was justified... or that it wasn't INITIALLY justified, then unjustified after Brown was no longer a threat.

We just don't know, and I don't trust the word of EITHER Brown's companion OR the cop. They BOTH have a HUGE incentive to lie.
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The kids stepfather mentioned that he was shot in the face. Witnesses have said that he was seated with his hands up and the police officer approached him while he was in this position firing. Yes, there certainly are many details that we don't know... but to me that truly sounds like an execution. I think police are getting off way to often killing unarmed, innocents, and bystanders. There is a fundamental problem with police procedure when there is little to no liability when that gun comes out of the holster. I think that the police ought to face the same sort of scrutiny the rest of us do when using deadly force... only then, will it be a last option to save lives instead of just expedient or them shooting out of rage.
 
aacx22 said:
The kids stepfather mentioned that he was shot in the face. Witnesses have said that he was seated with his hands up and the police officer approached him while he was in this position firing. Yes, there certainly are many details that we don't know... but to me that truly sounds like an execution. I think police are getting off way to often killing unarmed, innocents, and bystanders. There is a fundamental problem with police procedure when there is little to no liability when that gun comes out of the holster. I think that the police ought to face the same sort of scrutiny the rest of us do when using deadly force... only then, will it be a last option to save lives instead of just expedient or them shooting out of rage.
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As a general proposition, I have no trust in the police AT ALL.

That having been said, I have no trust in private sector thugs either, and it's looking like that's exactly what Brown was.

That's not a guarantee that his shooting was justified, just an indication that it might have been.

Forensic evidence is going to be the key to determining what really happened.
 
7 Tips To Keep From Being Shot by a Cop
Follow these guidelines and you will reduce the risk of being by a cop to the point that they are statistically insignificant:

1. Don’t be in a gang.

2. Don’t rob convenience stores.

3. Don’t do or sell drugs.

4. Don’t loiter on street corners or walk down the middle of the street.

5. Don’t carouse at night.

6. If you are stopped by a police officer, comply with his or her orders. If you don’t like what they are doing, record the incident and hire an attorney.

7. Do not, under any circumstances, attack the officer, hit the officer, or try to take the officer’s gun away from the officer.
 
apvbguy said:
7 Tips To Keep From Being Shot by a Cop
Follow these guidelines and you will reduce the risk of being by a cop to the point that they are statistically insignificant:

1. Don’t be in a gang.

2. Don’t rob convenience stores.

3. Don’t do or sell drugs.

4. Don’t loiter on street corners or walk down the middle of the street.

5. Don’t carouse at night.

6. If you are stopped by a police officer, comply with his or her orders. If you don’t like what they are doing, record the incident and hire an attorney.

7. Do not, under any circumstances, attack the officer, hit the officer, or try to take the officer’s gun away from the officer.
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8. Do not be a Hispanic paper delivery woman or a surfer, committing no crime whatever.
 
Deanimator said:
We just don't know, and I don't trust the word of EITHER Brown's companion OR the cop. They BOTH have a HUGE incentive to lie.
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Brown's companion is not the only eye-witness, and on the issue of Brown attempting to surrender, they all describe him with his hands up when the kill-shot(s) were delivered.
 
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