"Let's have a conversation about guns.


JohnD13

New member
I saw this piece somewhere else and I thought it was worth posting here. The original author puts things better then I ever could.


Let's Have That Conversation About Guns

For once I agree with liberals. It’s high time to have a conversation about guns. Let’s start with the problem that there are far too few guns on our streets.

Wait, we can’t have that conversation. In fact, we’re not supposed to have what people might commonly describe as a “conversation” at all. We’re supposed to shut-up and listen as liberals, barely masking their unseemly delight at the opportunity, try to pin the murder rampage of one degenerate creep on millions of law-abiding Americans who did nothing wrong. The conversation is then supposed to end with us waiving our fundamental right to self-defense.

Because that is what the goal is – a total ban on the private ownership of firearms. There’s always another “common sense” gun law which fails because it is targeted at law-abiding citizens and not criminals, thereby inviting another round of onerous new restrictions until finally no citizen is keeping or bearing anything more than a dull butter knife.

Well, almost no citizens. “Gun control” means all guns under the control of the government and available only to it and, of course, to politically connected cronies. Gun-grabbing poser Michael Bloomberg is going to be surrounded by enough fire power to remake the movie Heat. He’s always going to be protected. The purpose of gun control is to ensure that we aren’t.

So let’s have that conversation, and let’s lay the cards on the table. Modern firearms (which really aren’t that modern) are highly effective weapons in the hands of an evil little freak who gets off shooting children. They are also highly effective weapons in my hands when defending my children from evil little freaks.

Liberals ask why I need these weapons. The answer is simple. I’m going to be as well-armed or better armed than the threat. Period.

Here’s the fact – bad people are going to have guns. And if you’ve ever smoked a joint, you are disqualified from arguing that prohibition works.

So, while we are talking, let’s talk about what we lawyers call “causation.” Since apparently we need a whole batch of new laws, perhaps we ought to see what laws might have prevented this crime. Well, we outlawed murder, but that didn’t seem to help. We outlawed stealing, but that creep stole the guns from his mother. He transported them, took them to a school, loaded them – all criminal violations, as was merely possessing the pistols at his age.

Well, maybe he would have been stopped by new laws. Maybe we could ban 30 round magazines? Well, when one walks into a class of children it is unlikely that a couple more magazine changes – a relatively unskilled user can do it in three seconds – would make much difference.

Maybe we could have better background checks. Wait, the creep stole the guns from someone who would have passed any background check. No causation there.

Well, then maybe the only real answer is to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which is pretty much every defensive weapon outside of shotguns and revolvers. It’s also contrary to the Second Amendment and the constitutions of at least 40 states.

We should talk about the Constitution. Liberals have an amazing gift for finding things in it that have eluded everyone else. They have divined a right to abortion that the Founders apparently intended to enshrine within it, however subtly. However, they cannot seem to find where it holds that “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” Perhaps it is obscured by a penumbra.

Regardless, our conversation needs to address the tens of millions of Americans who bitterly cling to this right. Perhaps it should focus on just how the liberals propose to conduct this disarmament. They should probably start with who they assume would conduct this task. I highly suspect the advocates of turning government force upon its own citizens to deprive them of what they consider a fundamental right do not envision themselves strapping on body armor and locking and loading to go kick down the doors of people known to have guns.

So, since risking enormous violence as a consequence to turning government force on millions of armed American citizens who would believe their fundamental rights were being tyrannically breached is probably a non-starter, we should converse about reality. Liberals love reality, or so they are always saying.

The reality is that guns aren’t going anywhere. There are 300 million of them. We aren’t giving them up. So let’s deal with the world as it is.

First, let’s talk about some common ground. It was not news to anyone that the creep in Newtown had mental problems. I am not discounting his evil, but the fact is he clearly had mental issues. Can we agree that we need to look carefully at whether society can do a better job dealing with people like this before they crack up? Doesn’t it make sense to deal with people who might be a threat instead of depriving millions of innocent, law-abiding Americans of their rights?

Let’s return to the fact that we have nowhere near enough guns on the streets. In many states, concealed carry laws have been changed to allow citizens the ability to defend themselves nearly everywhere. The bloodbath liberals expected never materialized. Instead, crime fell. It turns out that ordinary American citizens don’t turn into to sociopaths in the presence of a Glock 19.

Let’s talk about how all American citizens should share this right, because many don’t. In California, I need my local sheriff to sign off that I’m competent. I served 25 years in the military with two tours in hostile fire zones. I carried weapons in uniform deployed to fires, earthquakes and riots. I oversaw the weapons training of thousands of soldiers. The government even spent tens of thousands investigating me, and then gave me a security clearance.

California considers me unfit to carry a gun outside my home. This is ridiculous.

Since we are conversing about guns, let me share some gun insights since liberals often don’t know anything about them (Memo to the Media: Please learn what an “automatic” weapon is and isn’t. Please.) First, I don’t like carrying guns. I’ve spent several years of my life carrying guns and I don’t enjoy it. They are heavy and dirty and you are always aware you have it and you must behave accordingly. Guns are a pain. I would only carry one because the pain of watching people butchered while I looked on helplessly is immeasurably worse.

Let’s also talk about this assumption that a citizen with a handgun out in public is no match for a creep in a vest with a long weapon. True, I’d rather have a long weapon myself, but I’m pretty sure that as I try to make a head shot his full attention (and his gun fire) are all going to be focused on me instead of on some kid. I doubt anyone with a concealed carry permit wants to get shot, but while it may not be in tune with the tenor of these selfish times, I’d prefer that if someone had to get shot it be me facing the enemy instead of a civilian shot in the back.

Let’s talk about “gun free zones” too. Liberals love talking about “science” and “logic,” yet their magical thinking when it comes to guns is staggering. Let’s call “gun free zones” what they are – killing zones.

You don’t see mass shootings at gun shows, police stations or NRA conventions. Bad people go where they know there are defenseless victims. “Gun free” means that the innocents are defense free. A soldier in a sister unit to mine years ago was killed at Ft. Hood, where personal weapons are banned and military ones are in safes. He was shot while trying to attack the traitor with a chair.

Let’s talk about allowing some personnel at schools to be armed – and simply dismissing the idea with the declaration that it its “absurd” is insufficient. Israel arms some teachers – let’s look at their example. There are bad people out there. You can’t wish them away.

And let me end this brief conversation with a question: Is there anyone who doesn’t wish someone else at Sandy Hook had a gun?
 

I agree whole heartedly with this. I would like to add one piece to the conversation: responsible gun storage. Several keep arising from these shootings, and the fact that the weapons used in these crimes are stolen is one where we, as gun owners, CAN have an immediate impact.
500,000+ guns are stolen in this country every year (that number shocked me). We can do one of two things: we can find excuses for not preventing our weapons from being taken by criminals, or we can move to ensure that we voluntarily secure our weapons whenever they're not in our hands. I see no excuse, even for home defense, that any gun in this country can't be safely stored in a gun safe, especially with the new easy access safes for bedside storage. We can own the fact that our guns are being stolen by moving to prevent theft, or we can continue to donate 500,000+ guns to the people we're arming ourselves against.
 
I can agree that keeping the majority of weapons in safes is the best course of action to help reduce theft and accidental discharges by untrained people(usually children)... however, I don't agree that EVERY firearm should be locked in a safe. While there are new, small pistol safes that could be storeed under the bed or on a shelf, what if you're in the kitchen? What if you're in the garage? What if it's a friend who's baby-sitting your home and a burglar enters? They may know the code, they may not... will you tell them? Would you tell the codes to the safe to family or friends that visit in case they need the weapon? Will they remember what it is if they're in a critical situation? These are questions to ponder, and decide for yourself what's best. In my home, we have several firearms throughout the home in case an intruder enters and we're not in the bedroom. These are kept hidden and in places our children can't access... could a burglar find them? Sure could, but the alarm will be sounding and the police dispatched before they'd have time to search the home. Nevermind trying for the gun safes or cabinets...

Point is, I think it makes sense to have firearms in more places than just the bedroom and that ideally, keeping them in safes may not be the most ideal form of storage depending on who may need them.
 
If the conversation is about preventing similar incidents then it is now over.

Link Removed

This guy says it all!!!!! And quite frankly with many grandchildren in grade school. I toss this man my support.
 
At a minumum, I think having more police officers at all schools is a good course of action. Let's have less spending on dumb crap and more on extra police officers(if need be) at schools. I think we all can get behind that, right?
 
i think everyone should have at least one gun to be on or in their reach at all times ......any others should be well locked up or hidden well at least imo
 
I agree whole heartedly with this. I would like to add one piece to the conversation: responsible gun storage.

I understand what you are saying, but I grew up in a household with no safe. No guns were stolen, and there was no way that I would touch those guns without the consent of my parents, lest I deal with the punishment that would have been dealt. The sooner we teach our children right and wrong, and the consequences that occur, the better this society will be. We now live in a "me,me,me" society. Nobody takes responsibility for any of their own actions. THAT is the true problem in society. Bring back corporal punishment in schools. Stop punishing parents for disciplining their own children.

We all did stupid stuff when we were kids, the ones that turned out OK are the ones that figured out that whatever the school did to you was a cakewalk compared to what you would get at home. It seems to me that there is a quote "spare the rod, spoil the child". Sounds like a good adage to me. My kids, who are all grown now, understand why I didn't let them get away with much, although, I still think they had it too easy.

Making laws to punish the law-abiding does none of us any good. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I had to get that off my chest.
 
I really don't think the economics of policemen in every school is supportable. A rather large number of municipalities can't even fund sufficient personal for day-to-day operations.

Armed (trained) civilians in the schools would be the rational way to go.

Then perhaps some discussion of businesses being allowed to ban carry on premises. After schools, malls and theaters seem to be ideal targets. This will no doubt trigger the personal freedom on private property people. How about this. If a venue prohibits the carry of legal firearms, they automatically, under the law, assume full and complete responsibility for protecting visitors to the property and become fully liable for damages (e.g., death and wounding) and costs to visitors should an attack occur on their premiss. I think this would pretty much eliminate businesses posting no carry signs. Probably most government entities as well. Governments also need to be specifically prevented from claiming exempt status. While real people (i.e., not corporations or other form of organizations or entities magically recognized legally as being people) may still do as they please and accept liability if they choose.
 
500,000+ guns are stolen in this country every year (that number shocked me).
Where does that number come from?
.
We can do one of two things: we can find excuses for not preventing our weapons from being taken by criminals, or we can move to ensure that we voluntarily secure our weapons whenever they're not in our hands. I see no excuse, even for home defense, that any gun in this country can't be safely stored in a gun safe, especially with the new easy access safes for bedside storage.
How about because we're not always at our bedside?
.
We can own the fact that our guns are being stolen by moving to prevent theft, or we can continue to donate 500,000+ guns to the people we're arming ourselves against.
You're operating from a faulty premise. It isn't your fault if someone steals your gun and uses it in a crime any more than it's your fault if someone steals your car and uses it in a crime. Absent outright negligence, such as keeping your gun on a table in your driveway, you aren't at fault for what happens with a stolen gun, or for any other stolen property. You're blaming the victim for the crime. As for how someone stores their gun, there could be a myriad of reasons you aren't aware of. Just because they may not occur to you or don't apply to your personal situation does not in any way make them less valid. Trying to force your personal opinion of what is valid or not when it comes to gun storage is the exact same mentality the gun banners use when they try to force on us their personal opinion of what is valid or not when it comes to gun ownership. We don't live our lives by what they decree is valid, and we don't live them by what you decide is valid either. I'll store my guns as I see fit, and as long as I don't do so in a blatantly negligent fashion, how I do it is none of your business. And if someone steals one of my guns and commits a crime with it, I as the victim of crime won't be at fault. He or she as the perpetrator of the crime will be at fault, which is exactly as it should be.
 
At a minumum, I think having more police officers at all schools is a good course of action. Let's have less spending on dumb crap and more on extra police officers(if need be) at schools. I think we all can get behind that, right?


DON"T AGREE with ya Bob. If these friggin teachers are so good and competent they should be trained on gun safety, handling and interjection into an initial onslaught of attack by an outsider or student. Call 911 for reporting and back up but the initial contact should be by an armed staffer/teacher.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,544
Messages
611,260
Members
74,959
Latest member
defcon
Back
Top