KommieFornia LEO's Shoot & Kill a 13 year old boy armed with 'plastic toy guns'.

[The_Outlaw]

SANTA ROSA, Calif.
Northern California sheriff's officials and family members say that two (possibly overzealous) armed deputies shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a toy gun.
The two Sonoma County deputies saw the boy walking with the toy gun at around 3 p.m. Tuesday in Santa Rosa.
Lt. Dennis O'Leary 'claims' that the two deputies repeatedly ordered the boy to drop 'what appeared' to be a rifle before firing their real weapon's at the boy. (Apparently toy gun's are a big no-no nowaday's).
The boy fell to the ground and died from multiple gunshot wound's. Deputies then handcuffed the mortally wounded kid and then they 'supposedly' began administering first aid to the boy that they repeatedly shot, but the kid was pronounced dead at the scene.
O'Leary says that his 'brave' deputies also found a plastic handgun in the kid's waistband.

Calif. Sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old

This story really pi$$es me off.....
I'm starting to lose more and more respect for this 'newer generation' of seemingly trigger-happy LEO's

When I was a kid, me and my friend's used to run all over the neighborhood with toy gun's playing good guys vs bad guys.
My 12 year old kid even play's 'cop's & robber's' outside with his friend's sometime's....

Many of these newer generation LEO's appear to be a bunch of wreckless, overly-aggressive hot-dog's imvho.

 

[The_Outlaw]

SANTA ROSA, Calif.
Northern California sheriff's officials and family members say that two (possibly overzealous) armed deputies shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a toy gun.
The two Sonoma County deputies saw the boy walking with the toy gun at around 3 p.m. Tuesday in Santa Rosa.
Lt. Dennis O'Leary 'claims' that the two deputies repeatedly ordered the boy to drop 'what appeared' to be a rifle before firing their real weapon's at the boy. (Apparently toy gun's are a big no-no nowaday's).
The boy fell to the ground and died from multiple gunshot wound's. Deputies then handcuffed the mortally wounded kid and then they 'supposedly' began administering first aid to the boy that they repeatedly shot, but the kid was pronounced dead at the scene.
O'Leary says that his 'brave' deputies also found a plastic handgun in the kid's waistband.

Calif. Sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old

This story really pi$$es me off.....
I'm starting to lose more and more respect for this 'new generation' of trigger-happy LEO's

When I was a kid, me and my friend's used to run all over the neighborhood with toy gun's playing good guys vs bad guys.
My kid even play's 'cop's & robber's' outside with his friend's sometime's

These so called LEO's nowaday's are just a bunch of wreckless, overly-aggressive hot-dog's imvho.

Maybe our LEO's should stop using these type's of "No Hesitation" target's during their live fire exercises.....

"No Hesitation" = Dead Innocent Kid's!

DHS training with practice targets featuring children, pregnant woman? | Washington Times Communities

 

[tattedupboy]

Before we go blaming this on trigger happy, overzealous cops, let's not forget that a lot of these toy guns kids play with today look like the real thing. How is a cop (or anyone who isn't a cop, for that matter) to know whether or not the gun in the kid's hand is real? Wait to see if it fires real bullets after the kid points it at them and pulls the trigger? I think not! That's not to say that the kid deserved to die; he didn't, especially when what he was carrying wouldn't have harmed those cops. If indeed the gun looked real, who's to blame, the kid or the cops?

 

[GB-Boater]

They seem to be rather quick to pull the trigger in certain parts of the country.
If they asked him to drop the gun several times it seems they should of had enough time to determine if the gun was real or not.
Also, calling in a supervisor and waiting would have been prudent.

When we were kids we used to go shooting "things" with BB guns. Sooner than later they'll be after these kids also.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Before we go blaming this on trigger happy, overzealous cops, let's not forget that a lot of these toy guns kids play with today look like the real thing. How is a cop (or anyone who isn't a cop, for that matter) to know whether or not the gun in the kid's hand is real? Wait to see if it fires real bullets after the kid points it at them and pulls the trigger? I think not! That's not to say that the kid deserved to die; he didn't, especially when what he was carrying wouldn't have harmed those cops. If indeed the gun looked real, who's to blame, the kid or the cops?

That's a pretty good question...
but before I can try to answer your question, I must first ask 'you' a question...

Who would 'you' blame if it was 'your' 13 year old kid who was gunned down simply because he was playing with a toy gun?

Would you blame;

A) Your kid?
B) Yourself?
C) The Toy Gun Manufacterer?
-or-
D) The trigger-happy LEO's?

I would have to choose (D).

I just expect more from our men & women in uniform, I'm kind of funny that way.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Before we go blaming this on trigger happy, overzealous cops, let's not forget that a lot of these toy guns kids play with today look like the real thing. How is a cop (or anyone who isn't a cop, for that matter) to know whether or not the gun in the kid's hand is real? Wait to see if it fires real bullets after the kid points it at them and pulls the trigger? I think not! That's not to say that the kid deserved to die; he didn't, especially when what he was carrying wouldn't have harmed those cops. If indeed the gun looked real, who's to blame, the kid or the cops?

It was in his waistband, he was not point or brandishing or threatening, it was in his frigging pants

Yep, these are over zealous trigger thugs in cop suits. Hopefully soon they will exchange that suit for an orange jumpsuit.

 

[mcrosson]

Really sad but the reality is that these cops didn't know if it was real, or what the kid's intentions were. There have been many shootings by kids, and it just happened again in Sparks, NV so the cops have been on high alert everywhere. A needless tragedy because the kid didn't understand the consequences of not dropping the rifle. Just sad.

 

[GB-Boater]

XD40, He was carrying a toy rifle and the pistol was in his waistband.
Not defending the LEO, just keeping the facts straight.

We haven't turned into a third world country yet. No one is sending the kids into the street to attack anyone.
Our police need to use more restraint and patience when dealing with kids. There are far too many stories of LEO out of hand with kids.

 

[mthomp]

Maybe the cops were on high alert like you said, or maybe they were just high. Still, there's no excuse for their shooting the kid. Just because a person is carrying what appears to be a weapon does not mean they are a threat to anyone. The logical progression is not from warning to "bang, bang, you're dead!"

 

[GB-Boater]

Give this some thought:
If you are CCing and come across a kid with what appears to be a rifle, what would you do ?
Pull your weapon, or ask him what he's doing.

I'd talk to him. It would take shots fired by the kid before I'd react with force.

 

[benq]

That's a pretty good question...
but before I can try to answer your question, I must first ask 'you' a question...

Who would 'you' blame if it was 'your' 13 year old kid who was gunned down simply because he was playing with a toy gun?

Would you blame;

A) Your kid?
B) Yourself?
C) The Toy Gun Manufacterer?
-or-
D) The trigger-happy LEO's?

I would have to choose (D).

I just expect more from our men & women in uniform, I'm kind of funny that way.

None of the above.

Responsibility is on the parents or guardian for not educating themselves and their child about how to handle a gun real or fake. Don't you remember your parents telling you not to point your toy gun at anyone. Yes may not shoot any lethal projectiles but it taught you a lesson in common sense and courtesy. Parenting and education could have prevented this unfortunate outcome.

 

[MI .45]

Maybe our LEO's should stop using these type's of "No Hesitation" target's during their live fire exercises.....

"No Hesitation" = Dead Innocent Kid's!

DHS training with practice targets featuring children, pregnant woman? | Washington Times Communities

Outlaw's link to the Wash Times article illuminates the psycho-babble being put forth by various LE agencies and their supporters (e.g. LET, Inc. who makes these targets). This quote: “The subjects in NMH targets were chosen in order to give officers the experience of dealing with deadly force shooting scenarios with subjects that are not the norm during training. I found while speaking with officers and trainers in the law enforcement community that there is a hesitation on the part of cops when deadly force is required on subjects with atypical age, frailty or condition (one officer explaining that he enlarged photos of his own kids to use as targets so that he would not be caught off guard with such a drastically new experience while on duty).
This hesitation time may be only seconds but that is not acceptable when officers are losing their lives in these same situations. The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. If that initial hesitation time can be cut down due to range experience, the officer and community are better served.”

The bold above demonstrates to me an officer that has no business being one but I'm sure he is heralded in his department as being "ready for any circumstance". Really... this is the cop that shoots the 13 year old. "Tattedupboy" does have a point here and we all need to hear the denoument of this event before passing judgement. but virtually all of the replica rifles and handguns I've seen over the last 15 years or so have red or orange muzzles and other features denoting a simulacrum. As the facts (will the public ever get the genuine truth here?) come out we should be able to ascertain who was right or wrong.

Above in red, we also see the false notion that a cops life is to be saved above all others. Yes, police do go toward crime and that is a risk, one they have to accept when they swear an oath. But that oath does not include that their personal life is so elevated above the rest of us that the public is mere fodder for paranoia, deadly misjudgements, and general abuse.This of course does not mean that an LEO has to take inordinate risks that would endanger themselves, but it does mean that better training and situational assessments would most assuredly be in order.

 

[ezkl2230]

Before we go blaming this on trigger happy, overzealous cops, let's not forget that a lot of these toy guns kids play with today look like the real thing. How is a cop (or anyone who isn't a cop, for that matter) to know whether or not the gun in the kid's hand is real? Wait to see if it fires real bullets after the kid points it at them and pulls the trigger? I think not! That's not to say that the kid deserved to die; he didn't, especially when what he was carrying wouldn't have harmed those cops. If indeed the gun looked real, who's to blame, the kid or the cops?

By federal law, since 1987 all toy/airsoft guns have blaze orange tips on them to distinguish them from the real thing. It is a federal offense to remove the orange tips.

 

[GB-Boater]

I have to agree with benq also. The kid should have been taught to respect/obey the officer.
I wonder if they'll post a photo of the toy rifle to see if it has the orange tip ?

 

[The_Outlaw]

Outlaw's link to the Wash Times article illuminates the psycho-babble being put forth by various LE agencies and their supporters (e.g. LET, Inc. who makes these targets). This quote: “The subjects in NMH targets were chosen in order to give officers the experience of dealing with deadly force shooting scenarios with subjects that are not the norm during training. I found while speaking with officers and trainers in the law enforcement community that there is a hesitation on the part of cops when deadly force is required on subjects with atypical age, frailty or condition (one officer explaining that he enlarged photos of his own kids to use as targets so that he would not be caught off guard with such a drastically new experience while on duty).
This hesitation time may be only seconds but that is not acceptable when officers are losing their lives in these same situations. The goal of NMH is to break that stereotype on the range, regardless of how slim the chances are of encountering a real life scenario that involves a child, pregnant woman, etc. If that initial hesitation time can be cut down due to range experience, the officer and community are better served.”

The bold above demonstrates to me an officer that has no business being one but I'm sure he is heralded in his department as being "ready for any circumstance". Really... this is the cop that shoots the 13 year old. "Tattedupboy" does have a point here and we all need to hear the denoument of this event before passing judgement. but virtually all of the replica rifles and handguns I've seen over the last 15 years or so have red or orange muzzles and other features denoting a simulacrum. As the facts (will the public ever get the genuine truth here?) come out we should be able to ascertain who was right or wrong.

Above in red, we also see the false notion that a cops life is to be saved above all others. Yes, police do go toward crime and that is a risk, one they have to accept when they swear an oath. But that oath does not include that their personal life is so elevated above the rest of us that the public is mere fodder for paranoia, deadly misjudgements, and general abuse.This of course does not mean that an LEO has to take inordinate risks that would endanger themselves, but it does mean that better training and situational assessments would most assuredly be in order.

Excellent reply sir! You are spot on with everything that you have stated in this post imvho.

 

[ezkl2230]

OK - now I'm going to ask the one question no one else has asked. The reporters obtained the comments of the parents through a spanish speaker. Did the boy even speak english? From what I can see in the article, it appears that A) the boy never actually pointed the replica at officers, he just never put it down, B) this may have been a migrant family and C) there might have been a language barrier that prevented the boy from understanding the demand. In any case, it appears to me that the officers made a really bad call here.

 

[telpinaro]

This one has a photo... I don't see an orange tip. Link Removed

 

[windlake]

Kids grow up with shoot-em up cartoons, and shoot-em up video games. Then they go play with their toy guns and get shot. Law Enforcement needs to be a little less aggressive. Seems like they are all getting training in being rude and aggressive to the public. Got a ticket from State Patrol not long ago for speeding. I was no where near the speed he claimed I was going. He said 87 in a 65 in heavy traffic. It was a Packers sunday and there were many headed to Green Bay for the game. It would have been impossible to go that speed in that traffic. And above 80 most GM cars shake like a leaf. And he was a real prick about it. Rude, wouldn't even consider that maybe his radar had picked up someone going south instead of north toward Green Bay.

 

[Johnny Dollar]

This one has a photo... I don't see an orange tip. Link Removed

According to the link telpinaro posted the rifle wasn't a toy it was a replica. Not sure what the diference is but if you are walking down the street carrying a "fake" gun and a cop points a real gun at you and tells you to drop it common sense would tell you that you damn better drop the gun.

It would depend on the rifle but around here if you see a kid walking down the road with a duck gun he's probably on his way to hunt ducks

 

[GB-Boater]

It would depend on the rifle but around here if you see a kid walking down the road with a duck gun he's probably on his way to hunt ducks

Same around here.