Introduction: New member from Australia


DW98

New member
Hi all,

I couldn't find an introduction section so I hope it's okay to introduce myself here. As some of you may know, Australia has strict firearms laws, draconian even. I'm quite envious of the freedoms you guys enjoy in the U.S. so I thought I'd join up and get to know everyone, and of course learn more about your gun culture and laws.

If you have any questions at all don't hesitate to ask.


Stay safe.
 

Welcome from Kansas. There is a "New Member" category, but we found you anyway. Tell us more about your laws there. Are you able to carry a gun at all?
 
Hi all,

I couldn't find an introduction section so I hope it's okay to introduce myself here. As some of you may know, Australia has strict firearms laws, draconian even. I'm quite envious of the freedoms you guys enjoy in the U.S. so I thought I'd join up and get to know everyone, and of course learn more about your gun culture and laws.

If you have any questions at all don't hesitate to ask.


Stay safe.

First, welcome to the forums

Second, I can only speak for myself, but it wouldn't surprise me to find a lot of agreement amongst my fellow forum participants when I say that we hail from a "freedom" culture, not a gun culture. Though many of our freedoms are just a short shove over the cliff that your country has already been pushed over, the more aware among us will retain the mindset of being members of a freedom culture no matter what the usurpers of our God-given rights manage to pull off as regards inhibiting or criminalizing our freedoms. I hope that we, as a nation, are so deeply committed to remaining free that we would never allow the near-total disarmament that you and your citizenry have suffered at the hands of despots and tyrants, but I can't say I have much confidence that we are very different than your population was at the time of your disarmament. The only real difference is the numbers of both people and guns in private hands between our respective countries, but the Patrick Henry mindset of "Give me liberty, or give me death!" is little more than a historical footnote in all but a relative handful of Americans anymore. Our gun rights are constantly under threat though, and they don't resemble at all the permanence or bulwark against tyranny that they were intended to be by our Founding Fathers.

I doubt it would really have much relevance between our respective cultures, but the only question I can think of to ask is, what was the biggest mistake your citizenry made that allowed your near-total disarmament? Maybe we could learn something useful from someone who (presumably) saw gun confiscations up close and personal.

Like I said though, welcome. Set a' spell and make yourself comfortable.

Blues
 
Greetings from Northwest Arkansas!

We'd love to hear your thoughts about the wizard of oz castrating your populace, and the effects is has caused since.

Again, welcome aboard, and enjoy the ride.
 
Thanks for the warm welcomes, everyone.

Are you able to carry a gun at all?

Nope, we can't even carry pepper spray. The only people who are allowed to carry firearms are the police, some security guards and railway guards. Even 99% of police aren't allowed to take their gun home or carry it off-duty. Interesting to note that police in one state have stated they want to start carrying automatic rifles in their cars and at home for self-defence.

I once heard rumors that if you can prove you're life is being threatened you may be given a permit to carry a firearm, but I have no idea if that's true or not. Probably not.

I doubt it would really have much relevance between our respective cultures, but the only question I can think of to ask is, what was the biggest mistake your citizenry made that allowed your near-total disarmament? Maybe we could learn something useful from someone who (presumably) saw gun confiscations up close and personal.

Gun violence was a non-issue here up until the mid-80's, despite a high rate of firearm ownership at the time. Then we had quite a few psychos who went on shooting sprees and the public opinion of firearms began to change quite quickly. In the late 1980's ('88 I believe) self-defence was no longer a valid reason for owning a firearm, however firearms were still easily obtained. All you had to do was say you wanted to target shoot, go hunting etc. on a form at the police station and you would have your firearms license then and there. You could also defend yourself with a firearm in your own home. It was a very different time. Back then you could go to Kmart and buy AR's, M-16's etc. Handguns were always more restricted here, but nothing like they are today.

Then in 1996 we had the Port Arthur Massacre. 35 people were killed and 23 were wounded after a man shot went on a shooting spree in and around a popular tourist destination in the state of Tasmania. 10 days after Port Arthur the government introduced sweeping new changes to the firearms laws. Fully automatics were outright banned and heavy restrictions were placed on semi-automatic rifles, semi-automatic and pump action shotguns. The killer did not have a firearms license and obtained the firearms illegally. The new firearms laws saw over 600,000 legally owned firearms handed in and destroyed. Although not all people handed in their firearms. A few hundred thousand firearms were never handed in, which is only an estimate as the real number is unknown. In short, it was a knee-jerk reaction which did little or nothing to curb gun crime.

Our biggest mistake was trusting the false sense of security they promised in exchange for our firearms. My advice to you would be to hold on and to fight for your rights as much as possible.

I don't remember the buyback myself, as I was too young at the time, but I know plenty of family members who were forced to hand in theirs.

Here's a small insight into how the laws have 'worked'. Link Removed

Note that there are plenty of shootings I haven't bothered listing in that because it's hard to keep up.

So I'll give everyone an overview of our current gun laws. A common misconception is that we can't own firearms, period. That's not true, although the laws are quite strict. Last I checked we had around 4 million legally owned firearms across the country, with about 7 to 8% of the population owning one or more firearms.

Firearms are broken up into category's.

Category A: Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball markers. A "Genuine Reason" must be provided for a Category A firearm.

Category B: Centrefire rifles (not semi-automatic), muzzleloading firearms made after 1 January 1901. Apart from a "Genuine Reason", a "Genuine Need" must be demonstrated, including why a Category A firearm would not be suitable.

Category C: Semi-automatic rimfire rifles holding 10 or fewer rounds and pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding 5 or fewer rounds. Category C firearms are strongly restricted: only primary producers, occupational shooters, collectors and some clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms.

Category D: Semi-automatic centrefire rifles, pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding more than 5 rounds. Functional Category D firearms are restricted to government agencies and a few occupational shooters. Collectors may own deactivated Category D firearms.

Those were the rifle changes. Now to move onto handguns. In 2002, a university shooting left 2 people dead and 5 wounded. After it was proven that the shooter obtained the handguns legally they became very heavily restricted. To give you an idea to takes around a year of going to a pistol range to prove you're really dedicated before you can buy a handgun. You even have to be interviewed by members of the club before you get your license.

Category H: Handguns including air pistols and deactivated handguns. This class is available to target shooters. To be eligible for a Category H firearm, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of 12 months the first 6 months using club handguns, then in the remainder of the last 6 month probationary licence, an application may be made, permit to acquire. A minimum number of matches yearly to retain each category of handgun and be a financial member of an approved Pistol Club.

Target shooters are limited to handguns of .38 or 9mm calibre or less and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions may acquire handguns up to .45", currently Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 sig, handguns that meet the IPSC rules, but larger calibres are not approved for IPSC handgun shooting contests in Australia.

Category H barrels must be at least 100mm (3.94") long for revolvers, and 120mm (4.72") for semi-automatic pistols unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols: magazines are restricted to 10 rounds. Handguns held as part of a collection were exempted from these limits.

Now for the banned category.

Category R/E: Restricted weapons: machine guns, rocket launchers, assault rifles, flame-throwers, anti-tank guns, Howitzers, artillery, etc. can be owned by collectors in some states provided that these weapons have been rendered permanently inoperable. They are subject to the same storage and licensing requirements as fully functioning firearms.

Australia has very tight restrictions on items which are far less controlled in comparable societies such as New Zealand (which has a very low crime rate). Air pistols, elsewhere unrestricted, are as difficult to get as centrefire and rimfire handguns, and low-powered airguns are as difficult as cartridge arms to license. Airsoft guns are banned in all states and non-firing replicas banned in most. Suppressors (or 'silencers') which are legal in the UK and New Zealand, are extremely restricted in Australia to a few government bodies.


Hope that gives you all a bit of insight into the situation here. Feel free to ask me anything else.
 
Greetings from South Carolina, what part of OZ are you from, we have friends in Mt. Eliza or Frankston.

Thanks :) I'm from Victoria as well. Mt. Eliza was nice last time I was there. Frankston.....not so much.

I've answered the above questions but the moderators have to approve my comment first.
 
Greetings from Pennsylvania (aka Penn's Woods).

I'm very interested in hearing your reply to Blues' post.

Welcome, and enjoy a long stay here.
 
Hey there, wolf_fire.

I'm not sure why that comment has to be approved and my others didn't. Maybe it's because I included a link in the response?
 
Ok, it seems by previous response was not approved, so I'll write it out again, just without the link this time.

Are you able to carry a gun at all?

Nope, we can't even carry pepper spray. The only people that can carry guns are the police, railway security, cash-in-transit guards, bank guards and so on. Even the majority of police can not take their firearms home. Interestingly enough, at least one state recently suggested arming officers with automatic rifles for patrol and home defence.

In general, self-defence with a firearm is practically illegal. Since the late 1980's, self-defence has no longer been a valid reason for owning a firearm. In extreme circumstances it is legal to use a firearm to defend yourself, but it's a very grey area. For example, if a home owner shoots someone for breaking in, they would very likely go to prison. Even if the intruder is armed they still could be charged.

What was the biggest mistake your citizenry made that allowed your near-total disarmament? Maybe we could learn something useful from someone who (presumably) saw gun confiscations up close and personal.

The biggest mistake was giving up our rights in exchange for the false sense of security that was offered - i.e: Far reduced gun crime :rolleyes:

I don't remember the gun confiscations as I was too young, but I know of family who had to hand in their "military style" firearms. Not everyone handed theirs in, there are apparently hundreds of thousands of firearms that were never handed in.

I'll give everyone a bit of background on what led to the new laws.

Gun crime wasn't much of an issue here up until the early 80's, despite a high rate of firearm ownership. Anyway, in 1984 there was a shootout between two rival motorcycle gangs outside a bar in a quiet suburb in western Sydney. 7 people were killed, including a 14-year-old girl who was hit with a stray .357 bullet, and 28 were wounded. This led to changes in the New South Wales Firearms and Dangerous Weapons Act 1973, which allowed registered owners the right to carry firearms in public. This was was subsequently amended to require "a good reason for the issue of a [firearm] licence". Funnily enough, after the new laws were brought into effect there were quite a number of retaliation shootings by bikers in response to the massacre.

By this point the public attitude towards firearms was changing quite quickly. Fast forward to 1987, a 19-year-old man walked along a busy street in Melbourne shooting at passing cars. 7 people were killed and 19 were wounded. After a shootout with police he surrendered and was sentenced to at least 27 years in prison. He is up for parole later this year. As far as I know the current gun laws were not changed in any way after this. But the fear towards firearms was continuing to grow.

A few months later there was another mass shooting at an office building in the Melbourne CBD. 9 people (including the killer) were killed and 5 were wounded. Again, I don't believe any changes to the gun laws were made. Despite these shootings, overall crime remained low.

From 1990 to 1992 there were three mass shootings, resulting in a total of 18 deaths and 12 wounded. The issues of gun control were obviously brought up but no changes were made in the laws.

Then in 1996, 35 people were killed and 23 were wounded after a shooting in and around a popular tourist destination in Tasmania. It's interesting to note that the killer did not have a firearms license, and obtained the guns illegally. The gun laws changed dramatically after this. A survey apparently showed that 85% of Australians supported strict gun laws, however many still opposed the new laws.

10 days after the shooting the new laws came into effect. Semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and pump-action shotguns were heavily restricted to farmers, some hunters, and in rare cases clay target shooters. All firearms owners had to provide a genuine reason for owning a firearm. Those choices were either sports shooting, hunting, primary production and security (for employment, not protection). In the end over 600,000 firearms were handed in and destroyed in exchange for compensation.

For anyone that doesn't know, the firearms buyback was not optional. If you didn't hand in your firearms you were going to prison. All firearms had to be registered (most already were) and had to be locked in a safe, with the ammo in a separate safe or locked compartment. The safe has to bolted down unless it weighs more than 150kg (330lb). The police come around to inspect your safe to make sure it's up to standard after you get your license.

Nowadays we have more firearms than we did prior to Port Arthur, although the percentage of people that own them has not changed. There are an estimated 4 million civilian owned firearms in the country.

Now a little bit about handguns. Handguns were always more restricted here, and were banned for several decades in the early to mid-1900's due to the large amount of handgun crime by criminals of the day (go figure). In 2002 there was a university shooting in Melbourne in which 2 people were killed and 5 were wounded. After this another gun buyback scheme was announced. Handguns were made very difficult to obtain, requiring one to use range guns for up to a year in some states before they can buy their own. Restrictions also included a caliber restriction of no more than .38 or 9mm, although .45 may be granted for certain shooting competitions, a 10 round magazine limit, and barrel length restrictions of more than 100mm for revolvers and 120 for semi-automatics. Around 50,000 handguns were handed in and destroyed.

Last year one of our political parties proposed a $300 million dollar buyback of all handguns in a bid to curb increasing gun crime. :rolleyes:

Before you apply for a gun license, you need to complete a safety course run by the police. After that they will give you a certificate, which you need to attach to your gun license application form. On the form you need to disclose any mental or physical issues, criminal record, domestic violence orders etc. You also need a referee to show that you're a person of "good character". The application is 14 pages long in my state so I won't bother getting into all of it. On average it takes about 30 days for your license to come in the mail. After that it takes another 28 days for every firearm you buy, which also requires separate paperwork for each gun.

Firearms are broken down into categories. Unless you're in a rural area or know someone with a pest problem, the only categories available to you will be A & B.

Category A: Rimfire rifles (not semi-automatic), shotguns (not pump-action or semi-automatic), air rifles, and paintball markers. A "Genuine Reason" must be provided for a Category A firearm.

Category B: Centrefire rifles (not semi-automatic), muzzleloading firearms made after 1 January 1901. Apart from a "Genuine Reason", a "Genuine Need" must be demonstrated, including why a Category A firearm would not be suitable.

Category C: Semi-automatic rimfire rifles holding at least 10 or fewer rounds and pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding 5 or fewer rounds. Category C firearms are strongly restricted: only primary producers, occupational shooters, collectors and some clay target shooters can own functional Category C firearms.

I believe 30 rounds is the maximum allowed in my state.

Category D: Semi-automatic centrefire rifles, pump-action or semi-automatic shotguns holding more than 5 rounds. Functional Category D firearms are restricted to government agencies and a few occupational shooters. Collectors may own deactivated Category D firearms.

Category H: Handguns including air pistols and deactivated handguns. To be eligible for a Category H firearm, a target shooter must serve a probationary period of 12 months the first 6 months using club handguns,then in the remainder of the last 6 month probationary licence, an application may be made, permit to acquire. A minimum number of matches yearly to retain each category of handgun and be a financial member of an approved Pistol Club.

Target shooters are limited to handguns of .38 or 9mm calibre or less and magazines may hold a maximum of 10 rounds. Participants in certain "approved" pistol competitions may acquire handguns up to .45", currently Single Action Shooting and Metallic Silhouette. IPSC shooting is approved for 9mm/.38/.357 sig, handguns that meet the IPSC rules, but larger calibres are not approved for IPSC handgun shooting contests in Australia. Category H barrels must be at least 100mm (3.94") long for revolvers, and 120mm (4.72") for semi-automatic pistols unless the pistols are clearly ISSF target pistols: magazines are restricted to 10 rounds. Handguns held as part of a collection were exempted from these limits.

Category R/E: Restricted weapons: machine guns, rocket launchers, assault rifles, flame-throwers, anti-tank guns, Howitzers, artillery, etc. can be owned by collectors in some states provided that these weapons have been rendered permanently inoperable. They are subject to the same storage and licensing requirements as fully functioning firearms.

Certain Antique firearms can in some states be legally held without licences. In other states they are subject to the same requirements as modern firearms.

Australia has very tight restrictions on items which are far less controlled in comparable societies such as New Zealand. Air pistols, elsewhere unrestricted, are as difficult to get as centrefire and rimfire handguns, and low-powered airguns are as difficult as cartridge arms to license. Airsoft guns are banned in all states and non-firing replicas banned in most. Suppressors (or 'silencers') which are legal in the UK and New Zealand, are extremely restricted in Australia to a few government bodies.

Note that New Zealand has a very low crime rate, despite a high rate of firearm ownership and the availability of semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.

We'd love to hear your thoughts about the wizard of oz castrating your populace, and the effects is has caused since.

I posted a link in response to this but it must not have been approved. I'll PM it to you. In short, the laws are having little effect on criminals.

I hope this gave everyone a bit of insight into the situation here. If there's anymore questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.

Edit: I forgot to mention that handguns cannot be shot on private property at all. Rifles can only technically be sighted in on private property as well, but I highly doubt you'd have problems for shooting some targets now and then. It's funny that you can hunt as much as you want on private property, but shooting some paper targets isn't technically allowed.
 
Greetings from Northwest Arkansas!

We'd love to hear your thoughts about the wizard of oz castrating your populace, and the effects is has caused since.

Again, welcome aboard, and enjoy the ride.

PM'd you that link I was talking about. Not sure if it sent as my sent box is empty though.
 

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