Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[hp-hobo]

That struck me as unusual because why would someone want me to handle my firearm and work the action in front of them?

Unusual? Not really.

This pretty well proves that the officer wasn't concerned about their own safety or yours. They were only concerned with their ability to lord their power over you and actually made the contact less safe for both parties.

What a surprise.

 

[Treo]

My stand on this is well known, informing the officer that I am armed doesn't benefit me. CSPD generates a lot of revenue from traffic citations they do NOT (in my experience) give warnings. I don't believe showing my permit will stop them from ticketing me. Since I never inform unless specifically asked I've never been able to validate my theory.

An Officer can't tell at a glance that I'm a good guy any more than I can tell he's not an anti that doesn't think any civilian should be armed ( I DO have direct experience W/ this that I can draw data from).

Therefore it is in my best interest (IMO) not to inform, unless asked or the Officer asks me to step out of the vehicle.

If I'm a "certified goodguy" the mere posession of a firearm by me does NOT threaten the safety of the officer and should be of no concern.

 

[pj_england]

AR - Can wait until asked for ID

Arkansas does require notification when you are carrying, when the officer asks the licencee for identifiction.

AR Administrative Rules, CHAPTER 3. License Possession Requirements, Rule 3.2 Contact With Law Enforcement , (b) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and that he or she has a handgun in his or her possession.

When carrying in another state, I learn their rule before I go.

Often the office might not ask for information. I sit quietly with my hands at 10 & 2 on the steering wheel and wait until he tells me why he pulled me over. I expect the modern databases have me flagged as carrying. If I am asked to reach near my weapon, I will inform the officer before I move and ask him for additional instructions. I usually carry on my person and getting my wallet could be considered a furtive movement.

I've talked to Police officers in several states-movement in the vehicle makes them nervous. They all said to stay quietly in the vehicle with hands in plain sight.

I am a supporter of flexyourrights.org - watch their free videos on youtube. In my book, quiet is King.

 

[antietam]

So....by not telling them...they will then not treat me with respect?

I agree - some imply like the only way to be respectful to an LEO is to volunteer information even when not mandated by law and during routine traffic issues - not weapon issues. This mindset has to do with raising the status of government at the expense of the citizen. If it is legal for me to carry concealed why do I want to do more than the law demands that I do? I suppose I should also offer to pay more taxes than demanded of me - just so the IRS feels my respect for it!

 

[jedma]

i tell em nothing! if ask than i would i realy carry unless going to range. but if i get pulled over i am not happy. i don t like cops anyways. most of em got there job threw politics. and the power goes to there head. some are decent. but way jobs are now . only way get the jobs here is taking test than kissing a politions ass or knownin some one. :angry:

 

[Rick327]

Rayven, Treo, Antietam, Navy LT, HP-hobo and a few others, you have changed my mind.

I have had traffic stops in the past and was courteous and polite in every case, sometimes I got ticketed, others not.

Before reading your arguments, I probably would have given the LEO my DL and CCW together, even though in NV it's not required.

I"ve never asked why I was stopped, before they asked if I knew why they stopped me, that"s changing too.

I feel that my rights are being inched away in order for an LEO to be more comfortable.

If the state says I don"t have to disclose (here the CCW is tied to vehicle registration)
I'll just follow the law like so many have recommended.

Thanks to all of the intelligent posts on both sides for the help.

Rick

Some of us are above the law and we know who we are - LEO?

 

[kelcarry]

Hey NavyLT: You and the rest of your 2A cabal have stated your case. Smart remarks are stupid and playing word games. I respect LEOs and what they do-you have a different opinion--fine--I don't know you and you don't know me---fine. Apparently where you live, your town hires cowboys with no sense and no ability other than to hassle. Maybe if I lived there I would feel the same way but where I live and the ones that I have gotten to know I have no problem obeying the law (no tickets and a requirement to show CCWP if stopped) and respecting their position in my community.

 

[Treo]

Hey NavyLT: You and the rest of your 2A cabal have stated your case. Smart remarks are stupid and playing word games. I respect LEOs and what they do-you have a different opinion--fine--I don't know you and you don't know me---fine. Apparently where you live, your town hires cowboys with no sense and no ability other than to hassle. Maybe if I lived there I would feel the same way but where I live and the ones that I have gotten to know I have no problem obeying the law (no tickets and a requirement to show CCWP if stopped) and respecting their position in my community.

Just to be clear no one is advocating not showing your permit when you are required to do so by law and certainly none of the 2A Cabal is advocating lying to the police when asked.

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

Of all the states that allow CC only 10 require you to notify the officer during a police interaction. I think that's significant, we're at, what 45- 47 states that allow ccw? and only 10 feel that Officer safety is enhanced by requiring notification. In many states (Colorado included) no permit is required to carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle, how would a law requiring notification by permit holders affect them? More significantly, how would such a law affect the thousands of criminal who ignore every other gun law on the books on a daily basis?

I can't see how informing a police officer you're heeled can do anything but escalate tensions, especially if you win the lottery and inform an officer who thinks anyone with a CCW is a wannabe cop.

There's no benefit to me if I voluntarily inform so I don't. I'm required to produce my permit and a valid I.D if I'm asked that would be the only time I would do so.

I also think threads like this don't change people's minds at all, sheep are sheep it's in their nature it's who they are.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

How do you like my new sig line?

 

[S&W645]

Just to be clear no one is advocating not showing your permit when you are required to do so by law and certainly none of the 2A Cabal is advocating lying to the police when asked.

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

Of all the states that allow CC only 10 require you to notify the officer during a police interaction. I think that's significant, we're at, what 45- 47 states that allow ccw? and only 10 feel that Officer safety is enhanced by requiring notification. In many states (Colorado included) no permit is required to carry a concealed weapon in your vehicle, how would a law requiring notification by permit holders affect them? More significantly, how would such a law affect the thousands of criminal who ignore every other gun law on the books on a daily basis?

I can't see how informing a police officer you're heeled can do anything but escalate tensions, especially if you win the lottery and inform an officer who thinks anyone with a CCW is a wannabe cop.

There's no benefit to me if I voluntarily inform so I don't. I'm required to produce my permit and a valid I.D if I'm asked that would be the only time I would do so.

I also think threads like this don't change people's minds at all, sheep are sheep it's in their nature it's who they are.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

How do you like my new sig line?

:thank_you2: As added comments to kelcarry, I do respect the police. I have worked with them and my degree Major was in Law Enforcement Management. Neighbor is a retired cop and another neighbor is one currently. But like in the military, never volunteer information. If the LEO in this state wants that info, they will ask. If you ever attended classes in college in the 70s, one of the films shown in the LAE classes was " Shoot. Don't shoot". Training tells you never to let your guard down when coming up on the driver's side of a vehicle. That beautiful blonde in a convertible might just be the one to end your life. I'd guess that the LEO that gave my CWP class also has seen the film ( or one like it/or simulator time )as she treats all stops as if the person(s) in the vehicle is armed. Not paranoid, just cautious. In states that require producing it, then you do.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Rayven, Treo, Antietam, Navy LT, HP-hobo and a few others, you have changed my mind.

I have had traffic stops in the past and was courteous and polite in every case, sometimes I got ticketed, others not.

Rick

And what's funny is that none of us are advocating changing anything about the above behavior. It's amazing to me how many Americans (not you, Rick) think that exercising the rights our Constitution protects is impolite and rude.

As Treo said... the presence of my gun, lawfully possessed and carried, in most cases with a permit issued by the state, simply has absolutely no bearing or relevance in the context of a traffic stop.

Now, if my cell phone rings and I answer it and talk on it during the traffic stop.... that's being rude. Not informing the officer of every legal item I am carrying in my car including my gun is actually more polite, because I am not wasting his time making an issue out of something that is totally irrelevant to the circumstances. If the officer CHOOSES to waste his time and mine making an issue out of it, if he finds out I have a CPL - then that choice is his.

 

[brolin1911a1]

This thread brought to mind my last encounter with an LEO.

The automatic transmission on my Explorer suddenly just quit, refused to go into gear, at a red light leaving me sitting there blocking one lane of traffic at a five-lane intersection. A local cop showed up, parked behind me with his lights flashing, asked the problem, and called for a wrecker.

As we sat in his nice warm car waiting for the wrecker to arrive (about 45min.) the topic somehow turned to CCW via discussion of some local home invasions. He mentioned being heartily in favor of CCW, that his wife had her CCW, and that he thought everyone should. He never once asked about mine although the info was readily available from DMV when he ran my plates and license and he was undoubtedly informed upon first arriving on the scene. Nor did he ask if or what I was carrying. I did mention in the course of the conversation, after about half an hour in his car, that my carry gun for the day was a compact 1911. His only comment was that was a good choice, that he preferred the 1911 himself when not on duty.

I consider him an excellent example of a cop with the proper attitude towards citizens lawfully and non-threateningly exercising their basic rights.

 

[sthomper]

"Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?"


why should you inform?? and why not advocate against a law requiring to inform??

 

[sthomper]

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

doesnt that depend on what you are stopped for??

ie, report of a drive by shoot in a dark sedan...you are in a dark sedan...relevant??


busted out tail light why should you have to inform anyone of arms??

 

[sthomper]

" Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

60 pages in a forum "on inform the officer or not??" inform because you want too???

inform because you think you have to?

or reject the unconstitutional law and not inform at all?? should you philosophically?? should there even be a law requiring it??

what is it that 60 pages didnt answer in 3 or 4??

 

[Treo]

What we are positing is simply that the fact that I am armed is irrelevant to the the stop.

doesnt that depend on what you are stopped for??

ie, report of a drive by shoot in a dark sedan...you are in a dark sedan...relevant??

busted out tail light why should you have to inform anyone of arms??

That is exactly the reason that I do not inform the officer unless I am asked.

When the cop walks up to my car I don't know why he stopped me. It may be the tail light or it may be the drive by but since I wasn't involved in the drive by why do I need to tell the cop I'm armed?

1. People have gone to jail for being in the wrong place, at the wrong time and fitting a general description.

2. If you talk to a police officer long enough you will say something that can be used against you.

If a police officer stops you he holds all the cards. He knows why he stopped you. He knows what he suspects you of. And he is under no obligation to share any of that information W/you.

This is a perfect time to calmly and firmly assert your rights

if I were stopped on the street (on foot) and questioned by a police officer the very first words out of my mouth would be "Officer am I free to leave." This question establishes the status of the contact immediately, and tells you exactly how to proceed. If you are told you are free to go do so immediately, Thank you officer have a good day. Do not say another word.

If the officer tells you, you are not free to go you can rest assured that he suspects you of something and is looking for probable cause to make an arrest. This also establishes the contact as official, I would hand him my ID & CHP immediately (you’re not sitting in a car he's going to pat you down)

If you are being detained the less you say the better, if the officer has probable cause he's going to arrest you no matter what you say. If he doesn't the easiest way for him to get it is for you to open your mouth. If asked where my weapon is I would answer directly and refuse comment on all other questions. "Officer I do not wish to make a statement or answer questions without my lawyer present" He can't keep you there forever & if he had PC you'd already be in handcuffs. No matter what he asks you (exception questions directly related to where your firearm is) ask to speak to your lawyer before answering the question.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If the officer tells you, you are not free to go you can rest assured that he suspects you of something and is looking for probable cause to make an arrest. This also establishes the contact as official, I would hand him my ID & CHP immediately (you’re not sitting in a car he's going to pat you down)

This varies by state law too. In Washington, I only have to produce my CPL when it is requested by the officer, and I am never under any legal obligation to inform them that I am carrying. I also am never under any legal obligation to voluntarily produce an ID card or driver's license (except when actually in control of a vehicle).

 

[Treo]

This varies by state law too. In Washington, I only have to produce my CPL when it is requested by the officer, and I am never under any legal obligation to inform them that I am carrying. I also am never under any legal obligation to voluntarily produce an ID card or driver's license (except when actually in control of a vehicle).

Colorado is the same but as I said, I'm on foot and it's an official detainment they are going to pat me down so I might as well tell them I'm armed upfront since I'm going to shutting up immediately afterword anyway

 

[Treo]

I wonder if they'll let us start a group here called the "2A Cabal" :biggrin:

 

[articblue3]

why take a chance

In SC we're only required to notify an officer if we are carrying when we get pulled over but why take a chance...just show him your CWP along with your license.

 

[hp-hobo]

In SC we're only required to notify an officer if we are carrying when we get pulled over but why take a chance...just show him your CWP along with your license.

No!

No, no, no, no, no!


No matter how many times someone repeats this incorrect information in this thread and on this forum, it is still absolutley, 100%, wrong.

You do not have to notify only because you're "pulled over".

Driving or being "pulled over" is not a requirement for having to notify.

The law is petty simple. 23-31-215 (K) very specifically states;

A permit holder must have his permit identification card in his possession whenever he carries a concealable weapon. When carrying a concealable weapon pursuant to Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, a permit holder must inform a law enforcement officer of the fact that he is a permit holder and present the permit identification card when an officer (1) identifies himself as a law enforcement officer and (2) requests identification or a driver's license from a permit holder. A permit holder immediately must report the loss or theft of a permit identification card to SLED headquarters. A person who violates the provisions of this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined twenty-five dollars.

Link Removed

It says nothing about a traffic stop. It says nothing about no other time. If you are a CWP holder, perhaps it's time for you to familiarize yourself with the law.