Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

[Treo]

Hey Treo: Kindly do not insult me by just playing with words. You know darn well what I mean. If you cannot obey the simplest of rules/laws for conduct, why should I expect you to obey the rules/law under your CC permit constraints? You either obey the law and that means all the laws or you do not. If you like to selectively choose, that's fine with me but "tongue in cheek" answers do not lend anything to this discussion.

So are you telling us that you are in perfect compliance w/ every law on the books? Are you telling us that you never go over the speed limit? Remember you either obey all the laws or none of them (I speed therefore, I’m a rapist?).

I don’t carry a firearm to be some defender of Truth, Justice and the American Way. I carry for self protection. I am not a nice person and I recognize no societal obligation to conform to some higher standard of behavior just because I carry.

My “tongue in cheek” answer doesn’t take away any more for this discussion that your sanctimonious, self righteous answer does

 

[kelcarry]

Hey Treo: Try chillin a bit and you may live longer. I surely feel sorry for you and your attitude. If you cannot understand civil responsibility you are a very little person. In any event, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I surely hope we are done with this exchange--it diminishes the fine aspects of this forum.

 

[Treo]

Hey Treo: Try chillin a bit and you may live longer. I surely feel sorry for you and your attitude. If you cannot understand civil responsibility you are a very little person. In any event, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I surely hope we are done with this exchange--it diminishes the fine aspects of this forum.

You made a statement You either obey the law and that means all the laws or you do not. and I'd like to know if you stand by it.

Do you follow ,perfectly, all the laws on the books?

 

[NavyLCDR]

All this talk about obeying the law and not getting pulled over is pretty much a moot point, I don't think we need to fight about it. Case in point - driving late at night, obeying the speed limit, car passes me, turns around and flips the lights on. Talking to my girlfriend, I had innocently and accidently forgotten to dim my headlights. Cop just wanted to check me out to see if I had been drinking, which I hadn't.

On the way to work one morning, cop pulls me over because I was driving a Toyota Celica with tinted windows and had 2 coworkers in the car with me. Just wanted to check me out because he saw three people in a Toyota Celica with tinted windows. No reason at all given for the stop.

 

[mrjam2jab]

All this talk about obeying the law and not getting pulled over is pretty much a moot point, I don't think we need to fight about it. Case in point - driving late at night, obeying the speed limit, car passes me, turns around and flips the lights on. Talking to my girlfriend, I had innocently and accidently forgotten to dim my headlights. Cop just wanted to check me out to see if I had been drinking, which I hadn't.

On the way to work one morning, cop pulls me over because I was driving a Toyota Celica with tinted windows and had 2 coworkers in the car with me. Just wanted to check me out because he saw three people in a Toyota Celica with tinted windows. No reason at all given for the stop.

Similarly....I was pulled over one time in NJ. Friend is in a country band...we went to a club to see him play. By the time we helped him pack up after the show it was almost 1am as we were driving home thru the Pine Barrens. Cop pulled us over...."just to check us out"....:fie:

 

[sthomper]

i still dont see why any so-called officer has to be informed of someone excercising a constitutional granted 'right'.

do states really require this??

say you forget and then what? some unfounded suspicions arise from a schmofficer and fines??? one would likely be better off being faced by a 'bad guy'.

 

[antietam]

A good way to periodically check tail, reverse and brake lights is to back up towards a store front window. But to really decrease the chance of getting pulled over for lighting problems is simply change them once a year before they fail.

 

[Treo]

A good way to periodically check tail, reverse and brake lights is to back up towards a store front window. But to really decrease the chance of getting pulled over for lighting problems is simply change them once a year before they fail.

That's a good idea

 

[Michael R. Whalan]

I have never encountered a cop, especially since I got my first CCW permit, but I believe that if stopped, I would do as several here suggested and hand my DL and CCW permit(s) to him.

 

[ranger351w]

duty to inform

Suppose you're out for a drive and you've got a tail light out... Or you're doing a bit above the speed limit and you just had a nice set of headers, exhaust pipes, and mufflers put on your car...

Regardless, you're now on the side of the road with a blue light special behind you.

Officer comes to the door and asks for your license and registration... Do you inform him that you are in possession of a concealed handgun or not?

Does the matter that it's the sherrif, a local county officer, or a state trooper change your option?



I think the DMV here flags your plates when you get a CCW. I've always thought it's a good idea to inform.

"Officer, I understand you go through a lot of risk in your line of duty, I would like to minimize this risk and inform you that I am in possession of a Concealed Weapon permit and I do have the weapon on my person (or in the car) The weapon is on my left hip (or next to the emergency brake handle in the center console). My license and registration are in my left front pocket. How would you like to proceed?"

In Iowa there is no duty to inform. Takes care of the problem! I would not say a word UNLESS I were asked about it or told to get out of the car at which point the above applies.Why throw a rock in a quiet pool?
But thats just me!

 

[S&W645]

All these comments about what you will do when driving and the "next time" you are pulled over. Pulled over for what? Aren't you guys and gals obeying the speed law? Don't you ever check out the lights on your car/truck/motorcycle/etc. to be sure they are working?

I knows what it is, youse guys are gangstas. :laugh:

Honestly, I've been driving for 50 years and I have never been pulled over...not once. I drive the speed limit unless the traffic dictates I do otherwise, and I regularly check for burned out lights. If you carry concealed, you of all people should do your best not to draw attention from law officers. It could eventually get you killed or seriously injured by an over-reactive police officer.

Next week I am going to start classes on how to drive and not get pulled over and how to check for fuses and change lights. Classes start at $1,000 a week. Come one, come all. :biggrin:

Last time I got pulled over was because I was doing under the limit and running with my right rear tire on the white line. Plus having Florida tags in an area of SE Ohio where in the previous week they had busted two Florida vehicles for large amounts of drugs. Right rear tire on the white line he understood as some roads the pickup would be across the centerline otherwise. Like US-52 between Bastian, VA and Rocky Gap, VA where even having the RR tire over the edge of the road still results in the LR tire being on the wrong side of the centerline.:fie:

 

[Treo]

After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor". I've read all the drivel about permitees being "sheepdogs" and "certified good guys" and I've actually read threads where it was postulated that our permits make us adjunct police officers.

I really believe that some permitees absolutely can not wait to whip out that "badge of honor" and show it off to some cop.

I also believe that nothing short of getting face planted across the hood ofa cruiser is going to change their opinion.

 

[B2Tall]

I know quite a few LEOs. A few of them are personal friends of mine. Every single one of them said they would prefer to know when somebody is armed. It makes them much more relaxed because a CCW holder almost always = law-abiding citizen, and if somebody was going to try to harm a LEO it's highly unlikely that they'd tell the officer that they were armed.

That's why I would inform an officer.

 

[NavyLCDR]

A good way to periodically check tail, reverse and brake lights is to back up towards a store front window. But to really decrease the chance of getting pulled over for lighting problems is simply change them once a year before they fail.

That's a good idea

Until the first time you discover all of rear lights are actually out for some reason! :wacko:

After having read several of these threads I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain breed of permitee that somehow views their permit as a "badge of honor". I've read all the drivel about permitees being "sheepdogs" and "certified good guys" and I've actually read threads where it was postulated that our permits make us adjunct police officers.

I really believe that some permitees absolutely can not wait to whip out that "badge of honor" and show it off to some cop.

I also believe that nothing short of getting face planted across the hood ofa cruiser is going to change their opinion.

How do you REALLY feel, Treo? Don't hold back, let it all out, you'll feel better! :biggrin:

 

[CathyInBlue]

Recent threads about open carrying in public places, like Wal-Mart, has renewed in me a question about Indiana law WRT police powers vis-a-vis my Personal Protection Permit. If a person has a PPP, when is a police officer permitted to demand to inspect said PPP, as the Indiana page here on USACarry.com claims they have the authority to do.

Since this is specific to Indiana, here is the relevant law:

IC 34-28-5-3.5
Refusal to identify self
Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
(1) name, address, and date of birth; or
(2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.

So, this seems to indicate that the police can demand that you ID yourself, and if you refuse, it's a Class C misdemeanor, but does this extend to divulging my PPP status? Being that it's not mentioned in the statute, I would say no.

But wait, even this statute is limited to being asked for ID after being stopped for suspicion of an infraction or ordnance violation, so there would have to be at least the Terry stop criteria of Reasonable, Articulable Suspicion that I have committed, am committing, or am about to commit a criminal offense of some degree. Unarguably, if it were such a case, they have the authority to determine both, whether the person they suspect of criminal conduct is armed, and in addition, if that person is permitted to be armed in public. But still, does the condition on being charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to ID oneself also govern whether you could be charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to divulge whether or not you hold a PPP? Meaning if the Indiana police officer confronting you cannot give RAS, then manifestly, under the above statute, you cannot be charged with the Class C misdemeanor for refusing to ID yourself by one or the other of the listed means, but could you still be charged, or otherwise suffer legal ramifications, if the police officer cannot or does not give RAS and is demanding to see your PPP, and you refuse?

Vis-a-vis the open carrying at Wal-Mart thread, which resulted in being accosted by police, if it happened in an Indiana Wal-Mart, could the police have the authority to arrest you on suspicion of violating IC 34-28-5-3.5 or other statute for refusing to divulge your PPP status, if they accost you for OCing in Indiana, being that carrying a firearm in public in any mode requires said PPP?

I say no, if they cannot, at a minimum, cite RAS, and the fact that you are open carrying cannot be said RAS. It would be tantamount to pulling you over while you're driving for suspicion of operating a motor vehicle without a license. If you were speeding, changed lanes without signalling, or failed to stop at a stop sign, etc., then that would constitute RAS (actually, PC if witnessed by the police officer), but merely packing heat opening is not sufficient RAS to demand to see my ID, let alone my PPP.

 

[antietam]

Good points. A few fit this description. I carry with a certain trepidation of how the law, under which one is supposed to feel secure, is so interpretable by law enforcement at any given time. This forum proves it. We sought these legal permits for a myriad of reasons. But because the states have such varying statutes and conditions buried in thousands of law books, we ponder our own legal status while carrying. :hang3:

 

[kelcarry]

I do not "ponder my own legal status" antietam. If I am stopped by an LEO doing his job for whatever reason, at least in SC, I am obligated (kindly leave out wordsmithing on the laws-everyone knows exactly what they mean except our wannabe lawyers on this forum) to inform. Even if I was not obligated, I would offer same only because (and contrary to the views of some of our more vocal conspiratorial anti LEO members) I respect his position and the dangers he can face as he deals with total strangers on the road. This has nothing, IMO, to do with 2A and all the other deflective arguments people seem to make--it has everything to do with basic common sense and dealing with a person who has a difficult enough job and who, at that moment, holds your freedoms in his hands because you have probably done something that is either an infraction or appears to be an infraction. If you don't like it, take it up with the Chief or your state representative, but to argue and give him attitude is not the way to go.

 

[cardinalfan]

+1!

 

[Treo]

My stand on this is well known, informing the officer that I am armed doesn't benefit me. CSPD generates a lot of revenue from traffic citations they do NOT (in my experience) give warnings. I don't believe showing my permit will stop them from ticketing me. Since I never inform unless specifically asked I've never been able to validate my theory.

An Officer can't tell at a glance that I'm a good guy any more than I can tell he's not an anti that doesn't think any civilian should be armed ( I DO have direct experience W/ this that I can draw data from).

Therefore it is in my best interest (IMO) not to inform, unless asked or the Officer asks me to step out of the vehicle.

If I'm a "certified good guy" the mere possession of a firearm by me does NOT threaten the safety of the officer and should be of no concern. IMO the type of permitee that DOES inform is usually the same guy that calls himself a "sheepdog" and feels that his permit makes him some type of auxiliary LEO. They seem to feel that having a permit makes them a member of some elite fraternity and informing the cop is the secret handshake.

If you choose to waive your rights (which is exactly what you do as soon as you open your mouth and start volunteering information) that's your business. I hope it works for you

I DO NOT ENDORSE ANY OF THE PRODUCTS ADVERTISED IN THIS POST

 

[B2Tall]

I do not "ponder my own legal status" antietam. If I am stopped by an LEO doing his job for whatever reason, at least in SC, I am obligated (kindly leave out wordsmithing on the laws-everyone knows exactly what they mean except our wannabe lawyers on this forum) to inform. Even if I was not obligated, I would offer same only because (and contrary to the views of some of our more vocal conspiratorial anti LEO members) I respect his position and the dangers he can face as he deals with total strangers on the road. This has nothing, IMO, to do with 2A and all the other deflective arguments people seem to make--it has everything to do with basic common sense and dealing with a person who has a difficult enough job and who, at that moment, holds your freedoms in his hands because you have probably done something that is either an infraction or appears to be an infraction. If you don't like it, take it up with the Chief or your state representative, but to argue and give him attitude is not the way to go.

Bravo!